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Griff3


Joined: 08 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Griff3 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I'm Worried he'd gamble way too much, he's also not a big hitter nor sound tackler. I'd be worried about him being the last line of defense. I'm not a fan of the move


Isn't that what is required to play the position. I mean with some practice he gets better at reading coverages, but we can't do worse than Madieu Williams. Also D Hall is a much better playmaker than our entire secondary. I rather have him take chances in the free safety position where he is directly not responsible for anyone instead of the corner spot.
we can do cheaper than 8 million though. I don't think he's as good as a fit there as a player who's played FS through high school and college like someone we'd draft in round 2 or like a free agent we could sign and probably pay less than the 8 million that is due to Hall next year, like Jarius Byrd.

Hall has one good game all year and all of a sudden people are back on his bandwagon like he's some kind of pro bowler or something. I just don't get it. Confused

He costs way to much for what he gives us in terms of play, leadership and especially effort.



He has been our best corner for the past 2-3 seasons. Josh Wilson sucks, he expects safety help that isn't there....and is constantly running behind the receivers. Hall has made big contributions in the past 2 games and has been our most consistent cornerback this [inappropriate/removed] season.
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kerrdawg


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
Anyone that thinks that Crawford or Murphy should be starting in place of Hall while Hall plays FS should really understand that there is a reason why neither of these guys are starting to begin with. Hall at FS next year could be entertained, but a top tier CB needs to be acquired at some point that will play true man to man coverage and not gamble as much.

Hall has lead the CB's in tackles the last two years and that has been to his credit. Tackling is not his problem.
he leads in tackles because teams throw on him so much, he's lousy in coverage. When a team completes a pass, then Hall makes a trailing tackle.

He doesn't do to much tackling where he's filling holes or hitting wrs when they are coming across the middle. Those are the hits you'd expect a safety to make and I don't think Hall would do it.
I disagree. Hall has done an excellent job the last three years supporting the run. In my opinion he's progressed from good to excellent this year in that regard. You'll notice he no longer goes for the strip all the time like he did in previous years and is now making solid tackles without being drug five yards. Re-watch the Tampa game and watch that hit he puts on Freeman again, it's fantastic. However, due to his lapses in coverage he's still nothing more than a good number 2 corner and so he is definitely overpaid. Unfortunately, Wilson is also only a good number 2 corner, so we really need a true number one. But until we get one, we have to keep Hall or believe it or not we will be even worse in pass coverage.
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Dashing


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerrdawg wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
Anyone that thinks that Crawford or Murphy should be starting in place of Hall while Hall plays FS should really understand that there is a reason why neither of these guys are starting to begin with. Hall at FS next year could be entertained, but a top tier CB needs to be acquired at some point that will play true man to man coverage and not gamble as much.

Hall has lead the CB's in tackles the last two years and that has been to his credit. Tackling is not his problem.
he leads in tackles because teams throw on him so much, he's lousy in coverage. When a team completes a pass, then Hall makes a trailing tackle.

He doesn't do to much tackling where he's filling holes or hitting wrs when they are coming across the middle. Those are the hits you'd expect a safety to make and I don't think Hall would do it.
I disagree. Hall has done an excellent job the last three years supporting the run. In my opinion he's progressed from good to excellent this year in that regard. You'll notice he no longer goes for the strip all the time like he did in previous years and is now making solid tackles without being drug five yards. Re-watch the Tampa game and watch that hit he puts on Freeman again, it's fantastic. However, due to his lapses in coverage he's still nothing more than a good number 2 corner and so he is definitely overpaid. Unfortunately, Wilson is also only a good number 2 corner, so we really need a true number one. But until we get one, we have to keep Hall or believe it or not we will be even worse in pass coverage.



This was Hall worst year in coverage but the last two games was #1 CB material . His problem is he I think just wants INTS but this is the time where he needs to understand a stop of a 3rd and 2nd or even inches is sometimes more important than an INT which is 5 a year atleast in his strength.

If he plays like he did these past two weeks than he will stay but lets be honest he was a cap release guy going into the off-season but we need him to be our #1 CB.

This year coming I can see us looking at a CB In FA .
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Redskins24-7 wrote:
Woz wrote:
The real problem with moving Hall to safety is the fact that we don't really have someone to replace him with. Unless you want Cedric Griffin on the field for almost all of the snaps?


Why not Richard Crawford? Or that new guy Murphy?


Crawford has been inactive the past six weeks. If the team doesn't think much of him to have him dress, why would we want him to be starting? I'm not saying he will never contribute, but right now?

Murphy was signed 10 days ago. He's still learning the calls and playbook.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
Redskins24-7 wrote:
Woz wrote:
The real problem with moving Hall to safety is the fact that we don't really have someone to replace him with. Unless you want Cedric Griffin on the field for almost all of the snaps?


Why not Richard Crawford? Or that new guy Murphy?


Crawford has been inactive the past six weeks. If the team doesn't think much of him to have him dress, why would we want him to be starting? I'm not saying he will never contribute, but right now?

Murphy was signed 10 days ago. He's still learning the calls and playbook.
the problem with moving hall to FS is hes a free lancer and an undisciplined football player who wants to blame everyone else when he makes a mistake. He also only gives great effort in tackling half the time and I want our future FS to be a sure tackler and the last line of defense. I want wrs and tight ends to know that when they catch a ball 10 yards to 20 yards down field they aren't taking it to the house because our FS won't let them.

We need a presence back there again, at the worst a Ryan Clark type player who might always be a half step late but when he gets there, you feel it from his hits and wonder if you want to catch another pass over the middle again all game long. Hall has great ball skills, but that's it, IMO. We need to find a real FS who will be cheaper also.

ill admit it, seems like Crawford proved us doubters wrong last game with a few big punt returns. I'm happy for the kid. I hope he continues to develop and becomes our #3 cb and full time punt returner next year. If he does, that's be awesome. Minnifield returning to 100% would be even more gravy on top of that.
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Dashing


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
Redskins24-7 wrote:
Woz wrote:
The real problem with moving Hall to safety is the fact that we don't really have someone to replace him with. Unless you want Cedric Griffin on the field for almost all of the snaps?


Why not Richard Crawford? Or that new guy Murphy?


Crawford has been inactive the past six weeks. If the team doesn't think much of him to have him dress, why would we want him to be starting? I'm not saying he will never contribute, but right now?

Murphy was signed 10 days ago. He's still learning the calls and playbook.
the problem with moving hall to FS is hes a free lancer and an undisciplined football player who wants to blame everyone else when he makes a mistake. He also only gives great effort in tackling half the time and I want our future FS to be a sure tackler and the last line of defense. I want wrs and tight ends to know that when they catch a ball 10 yards to 20 yards down field they aren't taking it to the house because our FS won't let them.

We need a presence back there again, at the worst a Ryan Clark type player who might always be a half step late but when he gets there, you feel it from his hits and wonder if you want to catch another pass over the middle again all game long. Hall has great ball skills, but that's it, IMO. We need to find a real FS who will be cheaper also.

ill admit it, seems like Crawford proved us doubters wrong last game with a few big punt returns. I'm happy for the kid. I hope he continues to develop and becomes our #3 cb and full time punt returner next year. If he does, that's be awesome. Minnifield returning to 100% would be even more gravy on top of that.


What CB do you have in mind , even Nnamdi looks to be in FA next year and id take him for a one year deal.

FS is a question mark but Hall there might be good.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerrdawg wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
Anyone that thinks that Crawford or Murphy should be starting in place of Hall while Hall plays FS should really understand that there is a reason why neither of these guys are starting to begin with. Hall at FS next year could be entertained, but a top tier CB needs to be acquired at some point that will play true man to man coverage and not gamble as much.

Hall has lead the CB's in tackles the last two years and that has been to his credit. Tackling is not his problem.
he leads in tackles because teams throw on him so much, he's lousy in coverage. When a team completes a pass, then Hall makes a trailing tackle.

He doesn't do to much tackling where he's filling holes or hitting wrs when they are coming across the middle. Those are the hits you'd expect a safety to make and I don't think Hall would do it.
I disagree. Hall has done an excellent job the last three years supporting the run. In my opinion he's progressed from good to excellent this year in that regard. You'll notice he no longer goes for the strip all the time like he did in previous years and is now making solid tackles without being drug five yards. Re-watch the Tampa game and watch that hit he puts on Freeman again, it's fantastic. However, due to his lapses in coverage he's still nothing more than a good number 2 corner and so he is definitely overpaid. Unfortunately, Wilson is also only a good number 2 corner, so we really need a true number one. But until we get one, we have to keep Hall or believe it or not we will be even worse in pass coverage.
rewatch his poor effort on Boldin's big pass play where Hall was just trying to drag him down by his shirt for I don't know how many yards.

This secondary will NoT get better until he and his huge salary which he doesn't earn is gone. He's been a thorn in our side for 3 years in the secondary.

Josh Wilson held Torrey Smith to 1 catch for 23 yds last game.

DHall was on Boldin and Boldin almost single handidly beat us because hall expects FS help all the time so that he can cherry pick.

No thanks on Hall and he isn't worth 8 million next year.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dashing wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
Redskins24-7 wrote:
Woz wrote:
The real problem with moving Hall to safety is the fact that we don't really have someone to replace him with. Unless you want Cedric Griffin on the field for almost all of the snaps?


Why not Richard Crawford? Or that new guy Murphy?


Crawford has been inactive the past six weeks. If the team doesn't think much of him to have him dress, why would we want him to be starting? I'm not saying he will never contribute, but right now?

Murphy was signed 10 days ago. He's still learning the calls and playbook.
the problem with moving hall to FS is hes a free lancer and an undisciplined football player who wants to blame everyone else when he makes a mistake. He also only gives great effort in tackling half the time and I want our future FS to be a sure tackler and the last line of defense. I want wrs and tight ends to know that when they catch a ball 10 yards to 20 yards down field they aren't taking it to the house because our FS won't let them.

We need a presence back there again, at the worst a Ryan Clark type player who might always be a half step late but when he gets there, you feel it from his hits and wonder if you want to catch another pass over the middle again all game long. Hall has great ball skills, but that's it, IMO. We need to find a real FS who will be cheaper also.

ill admit it, seems like Crawford proved us doubters wrong last game with a few big punt returns. I'm happy for the kid. I hope he continues to develop and becomes our #3 cb and full time punt returner next year. If he does, that's be awesome. Minnifield returning to 100% would be even more gravy on top of that.


What CB do you have in mind , even Nnamdi looks to be in FA next year and id take him for a one year deal.

FS is a question mark but Hall there might be good.
i wouldn't sign Nnamdi- big flop in Philly.

I think we need to draft 2 or 3 DBs within the first 4 picks in the draft. I don't want Hall on the team Period.

IMO we need to find a bridge type cb who isn't going to break the bank for a few years while the young talent we have develops. I don't think it's advantageous to pay DHall 8 million dollars next year to be inconsistent and give poor effort.

Kinda like how we found Josh Wilson. We signed him to be a stop gap till we find a long term solution.
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mike23md


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Dashing wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
Redskins24-7 wrote:
Woz wrote:
The real problem with moving Hall to safety is the fact that we don't really have someone to replace him with. Unless you want Cedric Griffin on the field for almost all of the snaps?


Why not Richard Crawford? Or that new guy Murphy?


Crawford has been inactive the past six weeks. If the team doesn't think much of him to have him dress, why would we want him to be starting? I'm not saying he will never contribute, but right now?

Murphy was signed 10 days ago. He's still learning the calls and playbook.
the problem with moving hall to FS is hes a free lancer and an undisciplined football player who wants to blame everyone else when he makes a mistake. He also only gives great effort in tackling half the time and I want our future FS to be a sure tackler and the last line of defense. I want wrs and tight ends to know that when they catch a ball 10 yards to 20 yards down field they aren't taking it to the house because our FS won't let them.

We need a presence back there again, at the worst a Ryan Clark type player who might always be a half step late but when he gets there, you feel it from his hits and wonder if you want to catch another pass over the middle again all game long. Hall has great ball skills, but that's it, IMO. We need to find a real FS who will be cheaper also.

ill admit it, seems like Crawford proved us doubters wrong last game with a few big punt returns. I'm happy for the kid. I hope he continues to develop and becomes our #3 cb and full time punt returner next year. If he does, that's be awesome. Minnifield returning to 100% would be even more gravy on top of that.


What CB do you have in mind , even Nnamdi looks to be in FA next year and id take him for a one year deal.

FS is a question mark but Hall there might be good.
i wouldn't sign Nnamdi- big flop in Philly.

I think we need to draft 2 or 3 DBs within the first 4 picks in the draft. I don't want Hall on the team Period.

IMO we need to find a bridge type cb who isn't going to break the bank for a few years while the young talent we have develops. I don't think it's advantageous to pay DHall 8 million dollars next year to be inconsistent and give poor effort.

Kinda like how we found Josh Wilson. We signed him to be a stop gap till we find a long term solution.


Would love to sign Kyle Arrington away from the Patriots. Dude can play and would make a great nickel back.

As for Hall, cut him. Sign a FA that wants to play and does not want to put himself first all the time. Tracy Porter or Sean Smith would be great additions and probably cheaper than D. Hall.
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THESKINSFAN21


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Dashing wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
Redskins24-7 wrote:
Woz wrote:
The real problem with moving Hall to safety is the fact that we don't really have someone to replace him with. Unless you want Cedric Griffin on the field for almost all of the snaps?


Why not Richard Crawford? Or that new guy Murphy?


Crawford has been inactive the past six weeks. If the team doesn't think much of him to have him dress, why would we want him to be starting? I'm not saying he will never contribute, but right now?

Murphy was signed 10 days ago. He's still learning the calls and playbook.
the problem with moving hall to FS is hes a free lancer and an undisciplined football player who wants to blame everyone else when he makes a mistake. He also only gives great effort in tackling half the time and I want our future FS to be a sure tackler and the last line of defense. I want wrs and tight ends to know that when they catch a ball 10 yards to 20 yards down field they aren't taking it to the house because our FS won't let them.

We need a presence back there again, at the worst a Ryan Clark type player who might always be a half step late but when he gets there, you feel it from his hits and wonder if you want to catch another pass over the middle again all game long. Hall has great ball skills, but that's it, IMO. We need to find a real FS who will be cheaper also.

ill admit it, seems like Crawford proved us doubters wrong last game with a few big punt returns. I'm happy for the kid. I hope he continues to develop and becomes our #3 cb and full time punt returner next year. If he does, that's be awesome. Minnifield returning to 100% would be even more gravy on top of that.


What CB do you have in mind , even Nnamdi looks to be in FA next year and id take him for a one year deal.

FS is a question mark but Hall there might be good.
i wouldn't sign Nnamdi- big flop in Philly.

I think we need to draft 2 or 3 DBs within the first 4 picks in the draft. I don't want Hall on the team Period.

IMO we need to find a bridge type cb who isn't going to break the bank for a few years while the young talent we have develops. I don't think it's advantageous to pay DHall 8 million dollars next year to be inconsistent and give poor effort.

Kinda like how we found Josh Wilson. We signed him to be a stop gap till we find a long term solution.


Would love to sign Kyle Arrington away from the Patriots. Dude can play and would make a great nickel back.

As for Hall, cut him. Sign a FA that wants to play and does not want to put himself first all the time. Tracy Porter or Sean Smith would be great additions and probably cheaper than D. Hall.

Awesome sig! Cool
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
Would love to sign Kyle Arrington away from the Patriots. Dude can play and would make a great nickel back.

As for Hall, cut him. Sign a FA that wants to play and does not want to put himself first all the time. Tracy Porter or Sean Smith would be great additions and probably cheaper than D. Hall.
Arrington would probably start for us. imo definitely! That's a plan I could endorse and of course I'd draft a cb also.

Don't forget about Sam Shields also. Of we could sign any of those 3, draft a cb or 2 we'd be in great shape.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
kerrdawg wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
Anyone that thinks that Crawford or Murphy should be starting in place of Hall while Hall plays FS should really understand that there is a reason why neither of these guys are starting to begin with. Hall at FS next year could be entertained, but a top tier CB needs to be acquired at some point that will play true man to man coverage and not gamble as much.

Hall has lead the CB's in tackles the last two years and that has been to his credit. Tackling is not his problem.
he leads in tackles because teams throw on him so much, he's lousy in coverage. When a team completes a pass, then Hall makes a trailing tackle.

He doesn't do to much tackling where he's filling holes or hitting wrs when they are coming across the middle. Those are the hits you'd expect a safety to make and I don't think Hall would do it.
I disagree. Hall has done an excellent job the last three years supporting the run. In my opinion he's progressed from good to excellent this year in that regard. You'll notice he no longer goes for the strip all the time like he did in previous years and is now making solid tackles without being drug five yards. Re-watch the Tampa game and watch that hit he puts on Freeman again, it's fantastic. However, due to his lapses in coverage he's still nothing more than a good number 2 corner and so he is definitely overpaid. Unfortunately, Wilson is also only a good number 2 corner, so we really need a true number one. But until we get one, we have to keep Hall or believe it or not we will be even worse in pass coverage.
rewatch his poor effort on Boldin's big pass play where Hall was just trying to drag him down by his shirt for I don't know how many yards.

This secondary will NoT get better until he and his huge salary which he doesn't earn is gone. He's been a thorn in our side for 3 years in the secondary.

Josh Wilson held Torrey Smith to 1 catch for 23 yds last game.

DHall was on Boldin and Boldin almost single handidly beat us because hall expects FS help all the time so that he can cherry pick.

No thanks on Hall and he isn't worth 8 million next year.
Trust me Turtle, I was extremely frustrated with that play. But in that same game he makes a great solo tackle against one of Baltimore's RBs . As far as saftey help goes, we really shouldn't speculate. If a play is called where he is supposed to have saftey help and he doesn't get it, how is that his fault. His job is to prevent the underneath routes from being completed, you have to trust your teammates.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerrdawg:

Ill Put it like this. For 8 million you expect shut down, pro bowl cb, you expect consistency. Hall is not that, not even close and he's a horrible leader for our young guys with his ty raids that hurt the team. It's really just time to move on,now that we can w/o penalty, after this season.

If he's playing cb or safety doesn't matter. He's still overpaid and still a cherry picker in my eyes. I also don't see him being a big hitter as a safety or not even a decent hitter like Ed Reed as a FS. That just isn't Hall.

IMO if we were going to experiment with hall at FS, we should have done so in 2010 when we had Carlos Rogers and Phillip Buchanan and NO FS. That year was an experiment year anyways to see if they could get anything at all out of the old aging Gibbs team + McNabb and Haynesworth.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For safety, you have a few free agent options: Jairus Byrd, Dashon Goldson, Louis Delmas. Or if you think Meriweather can cover the free safety, you can look at William Moore or Pat Chung as strong safety (not so sure we need a strong safety, but I can see what others think).

Kind of discussed the corner option in the other thread. Personally, I'd go with the draft on that one. Free agent corners are expensive.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Dashing wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
Redskins24-7 wrote:
Woz wrote:
The real problem with moving Hall to safety is the fact that we don't really have someone to replace him with. Unless you want Cedric Griffin on the field for almost all of the snaps?


Why not Richard Crawford? Or that new guy Murphy?


Crawford has been inactive the past six weeks. If the team doesn't think much of him to have him dress, why would we want him to be starting? I'm not saying he will never contribute, but right now?

Murphy was signed 10 days ago. He's still learning the calls and playbook.
the problem with moving hall to FS is hes a free lancer and an undisciplined football player who wants to blame everyone else when he makes a mistake. He also only gives great effort in tackling half the time and I want our future FS to be a sure tackler and the last line of defense. I want wrs and tight ends to know that when they catch a ball 10 yards to 20 yards down field they aren't taking it to the house because our FS won't let them.

We need a presence back there again, at the worst a Ryan Clark type player who might always be a half step late but when he gets there, you feel it from his hits and wonder if you want to catch another pass over the middle again all game long. Hall has great ball skills, but that's it, IMO. We need to find a real FS who will be cheaper also.

ill admit it, seems like Crawford proved us doubters wrong last game with a few big punt returns. I'm happy for the kid. I hope he continues to develop and becomes our #3 cb and full time punt returner next year. If he does, that's be awesome. Minnifield returning to 100% would be even more gravy on top of that.


What CB do you have in mind , even Nnamdi looks to be in FA next year and id take him for a one year deal.

FS is a question mark but Hall there might be good.
i wouldn't sign Nnamdi- big flop in Philly.

I think we need to draft 2 or 3 DBs within the first 4 picks in the draft. I don't want Hall on the team Period.

IMO we need to find a bridge type cb who isn't going to break the bank for a few years while the young talent we have develops. I don't think it's advantageous to pay DHall 8 million dollars next year to be inconsistent and give poor effort.

Kinda like how we found Josh Wilson. We signed him to be a stop gap till we find a long term solution.


Nnamdi isn't a bad player the problem is he just fit the Raiders D better and was purely man to man.A one year deal for him is a good bargin If you really wanna upgrade your D. Problem is DRC been sucking and they have no pass rush or safeties .
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