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RyanFuller003
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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I think the Lions are doing about as well as they did last year, really. It's just that they have a harder schedule this time around, and they aren't good enough yet to be a playoff team every single year. Rather, they're about good enough to make the playoffs every other year when their schedule permits. Last year, they had a few games go their way late that they didn't play well in. It's been basically the same this year, except we haven't pulled out the close-and-late types of games that we won last year, and it's not because they're playing much worse, it's just because the competition hasn't been as lax.
The last two weeks, the Lions have been ahead of two of the best teams in the NFL in the fourth quarter. They had two chances to win in overtime against the NFL's first 10-win team. It's an unfortunate circumstance that they happened to blow those calls, but did anyone see us faring that well against Houston? Or Green Bay the week before that? Even though Stafford hasn't exactly done his best work over these last two weeks?
I saw someone drawing a comparison to the 2006 Saints, the year they signed Drew Brees and surprisingly made the playoffs at 10-6 after years of mediocrity. The Lions had a similarly quick upswing from 0-16 to a playoff team, too. What did those Saints do in 2007 and 2008? They went 7-9, then 8-8, missing the playoffs in both years. I wonder if Saints fans at that point were talking about blowing the thing up, or that they were the "same old Saints," or how they wasted all this money on a quarterback who, while very good, couldn't carry his team into the playoffs. Was Sean Payton on the hot seat? Regardless, it didn't wind up mattering; that Saints team went on to win the Super Bowl in 2009.
Why am I making this comparison? Because sometimes the ascent to a Super Bowl contender isn't a smooth incline. There are bumps along the way. Maybe the team got overconfident after last year. Maybe they can't stand up to the Green Bays or Houstons of the league, but that doesn't mean that we can't get there in the coming years. Stafford is just 24, Suh is 25, Calvin Johnson is 27 and signed essentially for life. There aren't many teams in the league that have three fairly proven kernels of talent like that. We're being really impatient, I think. It's frustrating, I know (trust me, I know; I've spent most of my Sundays pissed off because of the Lions), but the chicken littling around here is probably just as frustrating.
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| MrDrew wrote: | | I may have to find a taxidermist that will make me a koozie out of a squirrel in a kilt now. |
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stylish313
Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 13773
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Don't have time to find the info., but I'd love to see a comparison of the Lions 2011 and 2012 of:
1. First-half scoring
2. Turnover differential
Over their first 11 games. Mind you that we've been arguing this now for a few weeks, and I know that the Lions have exploded over the past several weeks in first half scoring. That's where I can't give them a pass: they've played awful for 2.5 quarters against probably 8 of the 11 teams they've faced, and put up huge offensive numbers against prevent defenses.
And to my last point; I find it hilarious that a guy like RF who's been all over Pettigrew for inflated stats to overlook the fact that we've enjoyed so much success against prevent defenses until recently.
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 21517
Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| stylish313 wrote: | Don't have time to find the info., but I'd love to see a comparison of the Lions 2011 and 2012 of:
1. First-half scoring
2. Turnover differential
Over their first 11 games. Mind you that we've been arguing this now for a few weeks, and I know that the Lions have exploded over the past several weeks in first half scoring. That's where I can't give them a pass: they've played awful for 2.5 quarters against probably 8 of the 11 teams they've faced, and put up huge offensive numbers against prevent defenses.
And to my last point; I find it hilarious that a guy like RF who's been all over Pettigrew for inflated stats to overlook the fact that we've enjoyed so much success against prevent defenses until recently. |
I agree. What I also find frustrating is the forums instant rationalization of any shortcomings that are pointed out.
Last time I checked the Lions had four wins. The Lions are struggling and any GM doing his job should consider all avenues.
This thread is a fine example. It points out that anyone even discussing options is having a knee jerk reaction. RF thinks those discussing options are impatient. Having been a Lions fan for 48 years I don't think I'm being impatient but do admit after decades of failure my patience with the Lions is wearing pretty thin.
It seems fans fall in love with certain players and any mention of trading that player draws howls of displeasure.
No one in this forum has discussed blowing up the roster but posters have discussed the concept of trades. With any player there should be a point where the value offered exceeds the payers worth. An effective GM knows this and should at least deplore offers. Here shouldn't be any player regarded as untouchable.
I guess the majority of Lions fans find losing acceptable.
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TL-TwoWinsAway
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 24074
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| diehardlionfan wrote: | | Last time I checked the Lions had four wins. The Lions are struggling and any GM doing his job should consider all avenues. |
I don't disagree that having only four wins is unacceptable, but it's incredible how - even with our flaws - we're bounces away from having a handful more. We've done a good job of finding a bunch of ways to lose close games.
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| kenney wrote: | | Stafford without Calvin Johnson is a mediocre QB |
- Said on 8/16/2012. |
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 21517
Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| TL-TwoWinsAway wrote: | | diehardlionfan wrote: | | Last time I checked the Lions had four wins. The Lions are struggling and any GM doing his job should consider all avenues. |
I don't disagree that having only four wins is unacceptable, but it's incredible how - even with our flaws - we're bounces away from having a handful more. We've done a good job of finding a bunch of ways to lose close games. |
They certainly have done that.
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LION KING
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 15212
Location: THE U.P. MICHIGAN
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Lions fans seem to be fair weather fans is the problem and no way in HELL I would trade Stafford how many years did it take us to get a proven quarterback that other teams would love too have.
You want to fire the HEAD COACH go ahead he isn't special he is okay at best but there are a ton of coaches better then this guy!
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detfan782004
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 39345
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| LION KING wrote: | Lions fans seem to be fair weather fans is the problem and no way in HELL I would trade Stafford how many years did it take us to get a proven quarterback that other teams would love too have.
You want to fire the HEAD COACH go ahead he isn't special he is okay at best but there are a ton of coaches better then this guy! |
Ton better?
Not sure. Seriously he still lacks talent on defense.
They keep taking offense offense offense.
He is a good coach and it takes several years to overturn a roster.
There are plenty of GM material better too but doesnt mean its a good idea. They need to get their guys.
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LION KING
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 15212
Location: THE U.P. MICHIGAN
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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You can cut it any way you want it but when the Lions head coaching job opened up this guy wasn't even in my top 5 available at the time!
I wouldn't be against canning him at all he is a defensive minded Head coach that has a terrible Defense lol.
Don't know why he gets a free pass on that fact!
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You have to stand bye your convictions, sometimes you might stand alone but when your proven right its a great feeling!
People will insult ya try bullying ya! But don't be force to change your beliefs you could be the only one RIGHT A P ALL DAY! |
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detfan782004
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 39345
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| LION KING wrote: | You can cut it any way you want it but when the Lions head coaching job opened up this guy wasn't even in my top 5 available at the time!
I wouldn't be against canning him at all he is a defensive minded Head coach that has a terrible Defense lol.
Don't know why he gets a free pass on that fact! |
Because Mayhew has failed to really add anything to the D. And yes his name was hot for a coaching gig.
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LionsFan630
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 11149
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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It's kinda amazing that Stafford is on pace for 5,000 yards again and CJ is on pace to put up more yards than any WR in the history of the league and yet this team isn't even close to performing like they did last year.
Obviously 1) Stats aren't everything and 2) IMO the biggest thing is teams have learned to adjust to the Lions offense and we've yet to learn how to combat that because we don't have nearly the number of TD's as we had last year from Stafford and Johnson.
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lions1957
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 822
Location: Latrobe,Pa.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Guys,
I have not been posting a lot this season, because I really do not like the way some of these topics have been heading  . I have seen a lot of bickering amoung members  , and some of it really has got out of hand  . Some of the attacks are really getting personal and that is NOT what this forum is about  . Opinion is one thing, attacking another poster is not  .. At times there are opinions that I really do not agree with, but I am not going to attack someone for it  . I served in the military to defend everyones right to speak, even though I may not agree with it  . I also have not liked the way certain posters have used God's or Jesus' name in expressing themself. If cuss words are not acceptable, then I find the vain use of God and Jesus just as deplorable  . We come from all walks of life, so I think we have to be a little sensitive of all posters  . I have been on this forum for a few years, but I think I am going to chill  for a while, even more then I have already. I will keep reading the posts once in a while, but I am going to stand back and see how this works out  . Have a Merry Christmas everyone and a Happy New Year. Let us all make a better effort to make this a more civil forum  .
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TL-TwoWinsAway
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 24074
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| LION KING wrote: | You can cut it any way you want it but when the Lions head coaching job opened up this guy wasn't even in my top 5 available at the time!
I wouldn't be against canning him at all he is a defensive minded Head coach that has a terrible Defense lol.
Don't know why he gets a free pass on that fact! |
So who was in your top 5?
Terrible defense? Is that really a fact?
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| kenney wrote: | | Stafford without Calvin Johnson is a mediocre QB |
- Said on 8/16/2012. |
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SuhPLEX
Joined: 03 Jan 2012
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| diehardlionfan wrote: |
I agree. What I also find frustrating is the forums instant rationalization of any shortcomings that are pointed out.
Last time I checked the Lions had four wins. The Lions are struggling and any GM doing his job should consider all avenues.
This thread is a fine example. It points out that anyone even discussing options is having a knee jerk reaction. RF thinks those discussing options are impatient. Having been a Lions fan for 48 years I don't think I'm being impatient but do admit after decades of failure my patience with the Lions is wearing pretty thin.
It seems fans fall in love with certain players and any mention of trading that player draws howls of displeasure.
No one in this forum has discussed blowing up the roster but posters have discussed the concept of trades. With any player there should be a point where the value offered exceeds the payers worth. An effective GM knows this and should at least deplore offers. Here shouldn't be any player regarded as untouchable.
I guess the majority of Lions fans find losing acceptable. |
The bold is the straw-man fallacy.
To address the italics, trading Stafford or Suh would very much be blowing up our roster, which was the original point in the OP.
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 21517
Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| SuhPLEX wrote: | | diehardlionfan wrote: |
I agree. What I also find frustrating is the forums instant rationalization of any shortcomings that are pointed out.
Last time I checked the Lions had four wins. The Lions are struggling and any GM doing his job should consider all avenues.
This thread is a fine example. It points out that anyone even discussing options is having a knee jerk reaction. RF thinks those discussing options are impatient. Having been a Lions fan for 48 years I don't think I'm being impatient but do admit after decades of failure my patience with the Lions is wearing pretty thin.
It seems fans fall in love with certain players and any mention of trading that player draws howls of displeasure.
No one in this forum has discussed blowing up the roster but posters have discussed the concept of trades. With any player there should be a point where the value offered exceeds the payers worth. An effective GM knows this and should at least deplore offers. Here shouldn't be any player regarded as untouchable.
I guess the majority of Lions fans find losing acceptable. |
The bold is the straw-man fallacy.
To address the italics, trading Stafford or Suh would very much be blowing up our roster, which was the original point in the OP. |
Your original paragraph.
Fire Schwartz, trade Stafford, trade Suh... but nobody is talking about trading Pettigrew, who single handedly (pun intended) lost us 2 games this year by himself.... funny
Firing a coach or trading a player could hardly be considered blowing up a roster.
No single player traded in isolation would ever be considered as blowing up the roster and would be judged based on the return for the traded player and how that impacted the teams over all performance.
Blowing up a roster would include multiple trades which would be indicative of starting over and taking the team in a new direction.
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