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Looking Ahead: 2013 NFL Prospects Thread
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RAVINGMADD


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:

If we find that a 2nd round WR is where we want to go and we have a choice between Austin and say... Markus Wheaton, well I'd prefer the team go with Wheaton because he's 4" taller, he's going to be longer limbed, and they'll probably have similar leaping ability... so that's probably going to be at least a 10" difference... and when you consider catching radius we could be easily talking much more.

I can agree with a lot of your post, but I definitely can't agree with this. Markus Wheaton isn't nearly the threat with the ball in his hands that Austin is and he doesn't have the return ability. Tavon is just a great offensive weapon, not just a WR. Wheaton has the advantage as a WR catching the ball because he has longer limbs and he's taller, but once you get the ball in Tavon Austin's hands, he's going to do way more with it. If Flacco can get the ball into Ray Rice's hands without overthrowing him, he should be able to get it to Tavon. I'd think they are around the same height so it's a better comparison than Mason. We could do a lot of the same things with Tavon that we do with Rice and he's a threat to burn the defense deep. He also plays physically enough that I'm not worried about him making plays over the middle. Not to mention, with the direction the league is going with defenseless receivers, it makes it even easier for him. I think he would be a perfect replacement for Boldin in the slot. Smith and Jones on the outside with Austin in the slot sounds amazing to me. Wheaton in the slot doesn't sound appealing to me at all.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RAVINGMADD wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:

If we find that a 2nd round WR is where we want to go and we have a choice between Austin and say... Markus Wheaton, well I'd prefer the team go with Wheaton because he's 4" taller, he's going to be longer limbed, and they'll probably have similar leaping ability... so that's probably going to be at least a 10" difference... and when you consider catching radius we could be easily talking much more.

I can agree with a lot of your post, but I definitely can't agree with this. Markus Wheaton isn't nearly the threat with the ball in his hands that Austin is and he doesn't have the return ability. Tavon is just a great offensive weapon, not just a WR. Wheaton has the advantage as a WR catching the ball because he has longer limbs and he's taller, but once you get the ball in Tavon Austin's hands, he's going to do way more with it. If Flacco can get the ball into Ray Rice's hands without overthrowing him, he should be able to get it to Tavon. I'd think they are around the same height so it's a better comparison than Mason. We could do a lot of the same things with Tavon that we do with Rice and he's a threat to burn the defense deep. He also plays physically enough that I'm not worried about him making plays over the middle. Not to mention, with the direction the league is going with defenseless receivers, it makes it even easier for him. I think he would be a perfect replacement for Boldin in the slot. Smith and Jones on the outside with Austin in the slot sounds amazing to me. Wheaton in the slot doesn't sound appealing to me at all.

I'm not saying Wheaton is the better player, but Wheaton certainly has more potential as a boundary receiver for us in the Air Coryell offense. Wheaton has the hands you look for and the speed to burn. Austin is for sure the better and more dynamic player, but in our offense, he's probably just going to be sent deep 90% of the time... and he'll force Flacco to have to be even more accurate on his deep passes because of his much smaller catching window.

If we ran a more creative offense, I'd love to have Austin, heck I'd love to have a lot more receivers than just the ones that I've mentioned- but we don't. Cam Cameron is going to bend enough only to keep his job... nothing more. Therefore we need to keep looking for vertical receivers with some amount of size to them that fit his offense, but can also get separation.

If he passes the personality test, then I'd love to take a flyer on Da'Rick Rogers in the 2nd over both Austin and Wheaton. A big physical tough receiver that can play outside and in the slot- that can separate with his strength and has some decent quickness. I think he'd be the perfect addition to add to learn from Boldin. Boldin is our only physical receiver. Torrey is a beast, but we need a true compliment to him on the outsides. Rogers has the size to be a redzone threat (which outside of Pitta we could still use) and the physicality to beat press coverage and be unstoppable when teams put too much pressure onto Torrey Smith.

Tavon Austin is a really good player, but I'm just not convinced that he's the best fit for us based on Flacco's strengths/weaknesses as a QB... and based on Cameron's strengths/weaknesses as a playcaller. For that reason I tend to prefer some other guys more. Though I wouldn't be against Austin at all- I just think he's boom/bust with us.
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drd23


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me Tavon Austin is like Randall Cobb/Percy Harvin - an all-round offensive weapon that you line up in the slot or in the back-field and get the ball to him on short routes and basically set him on the defense with the ball in his hands. He's close to having 1000 yards receiving AND rushing this year because of that skill and versatility.

The problem is that we just don't have the scheme to fit that sort of play-making ability. How often do we see short crossing routes? Designed throws to Rice out of the back-field? I'd say the answer might be 2 or 3 times a game.

Unfortunately I don't like Austin for the same reasons I didn't like Cobb - he just doesn't fit our scheme atm and Cam Cameron isn't going anywhere (unfortunately for us) so long as the offensive numbers keep improving - we're now the #9 offense by points, up from 12th last year and 16th the year before - and we keep winning
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's also from Dunbar HS, so he'd be a star in Baltimore.
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drd23


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do people think of Louis Nix III? For those that don't know who he is, he is a 6'3" 330lb DT for ND with impressive strength and a good first step that helps him penetrate gaps.

Its probably unlikely he comes out, and even if he does he isn't really a Ravens type pick given that he'll be a rSO but he has been absolutely dominant the few times I've seen him and could be fit at either NT (or DE if we stick with Pees and his variation on the 3-4)
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alfalcone


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thoughts on Anthony Barr, and in the mid rounds Trent Murphy?

More importantly I would take the Honey Badger in round 3 in a heart beat. Perfect slot corner / Ed Reed replacement.
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drd23


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another one I'd like to hear some opinions on is BYU DT/DE Ezekiel "Ziggy" Ansah. He's one I regularly either mocked to us or immediately after us and is someone I could definitely see playing the Terrell Suggs role for us in the future.

He's ridiculously athletic - he can run 100m in 10.91 sec and 200m in 20.89, reportedly at ~250-270 lbs (As a comparison Vernon Davis, who ran a sub 4.4 40, ran 100m in 10.7 sec in college), reportedly has a 39" vert and is rumoured to bench 400lbs - has pretty good hand-usage and seems to have pretty good instincts considering he only started playing football a couple of years ago (watch him routinely diagnose and blow up RB screens for eg).

Really the only two negatives I really see with him can also be big positives -
1) he hasn't played much and
2) the BYU scheme doesn't give him many opportunities to pin his ears back and just rush the QB. He plays a lot of NT for them, and when lined up at DE seems to have to bull-rush. But those things seem to have taught him to use his hands, which is a positive.

Here's some cut-ups of him playing this year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-JxQlaxBHU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFYELG3ItAk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O4NawUsjtc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEe0b0bqmAI
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alfalcone


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm liking Alec Ogletree more and more by the minute with how he's playing today. He plays fast and violently.
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gooselovechild


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drd23 wrote:
Another one I'd like to hear some opinions on is BYU DT/DE Ezekiel "Ziggy" Ansah. He's one I regularly either mocked to us or immediately after us and is someone I could definitely see playing the Terrell Suggs role for us in the future.

He's ridiculously athletic - he can run 100m in 10.91 sec and 200m in 20.89, reportedly at ~250-270 lbs (As a comparison Vernon Davis, who ran a sub 4.4 40, ran 100m in 10.7 sec in college), reportedly has a 39" vert and is rumoured to bench 400lbs - has pretty good hand-usage and seems to have pretty good instincts considering he only started playing football a couple of years ago (watch him routinely diagnose and blow up RB screens for eg).

Really the only two negatives I really see with him can also be big positives -
1) he hasn't played much and
2) the BYU scheme doesn't give him many opportunities to pin his ears back and just rush the QB. He plays a lot of NT for them, and when lined up at DE seems to have to bull-rush. But those things seem to have taught him to use his hands, which is a positive.

Here's some cut-ups of him playing this year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-JxQlaxBHU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFYELG3ItAk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O4NawUsjtc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEe0b0bqmAI


I just recently heard about this guy. I think he's definitely someone to keep an eye on as the draft process evolves.

I'm sure after the Combine he'll probably get picked by someone way too early because a team falls in love with the freakish physical potential he owns.
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alfalcone


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drd23 wrote:
What do people think of Louis Nix III? For those that don't know who he is, he is a 6'3" 330lb DT for ND with impressive strength and a good first step that helps him penetrate gaps.

Its probably unlikely he comes out, and even if he does he isn't really a Ravens type pick given that he'll be a rSO but he has been absolutely dominant the few times I've seen him and could be fit at either NT (or DE if we stick with Pees and his variation on the 3-4)


Great player, I doubt he falls below pick 15 when he comes out, most likely next year. He and Tuitt (who is second to Clowney on my who we draft if we reverse Marty Hurney someone list), are studs.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drd23 wrote:
Another one I'd like to hear some opinions on is BYU DT/DE Ezekiel "Ziggy" Ansah. He's one I regularly either mocked to us or immediately after us and is someone I could definitely see playing the Terrell Suggs role for us in the future.

He's ridiculously athletic - he can run 100m in 10.91 sec and 200m in 20.89, reportedly at ~250-270 lbs (As a comparison Vernon Davis, who ran a sub 4.4 40, ran 100m in 10.7 sec in college), reportedly has a 39" vert and is rumoured to bench 400lbs - has pretty good hand-usage and seems to have pretty good instincts considering he only started playing football a couple of years ago (watch him routinely diagnose and blow up RB screens for eg).

Really the only two negatives I really see with him can also be big positives -
1) he hasn't played much and
2) the BYU scheme doesn't give him many opportunities to pin his ears back and just rush the QB. He plays a lot of NT for them, and when lined up at DE seems to have to bull-rush. But those things seem to have taught him to use his hands, which is a positive.

Here's some cut-ups of him playing this year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-JxQlaxBHU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFYELG3ItAk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O4NawUsjtc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEe0b0bqmAI

I wasn't really that impressed. Should be good once he develops, but I thought he allowed guys to get into his body far too often for a guy that size. I didn't really see the aforementioned hand usage. I thought his only hand usage was a bull rush into the body, which sets him up for an OL counter and getting into his chest and controlling him. He seemed to do his best work against the inferior teams where his strength and strong bull rush could gain him enough space to use his athleticism.

Speaking of athleticism, he's big so you have to sort of compare his speed to the guys around him and see how much ground he's covering, but even then... I think we most need an explosive pass rusher and he doesn't provide that. He doesn't have the explosive first step that you look for, which means he'll have to rely on developing moves to get initial freedom from OLs.

I like his willingness to get his hat on the ball wherever it is- he hustles around to make plays. Obviously his size is good for batting down passes. Personally I see him as more of a 43 LDE as opposed to a guy who can stand up and rush the passer as an OLB. I'm more impressed by Michael Buchanan in the 1st than Zeke. And I'm much more impressed by Dion Jordan. Honestly, I hope enough teams fall in love with Zeke in the draft so that Jordan has a shot at falling to us. We need burst from our next pass rusher, Ziggy doesn't have that burst we need. He's your classic medium twitch athlete, his kind of speed isn't as effective in football as a fast-twitch athlete in terms of rushing the passer. That said, he has the length and decent explosion to go along with great movement skills and speed.. that once his technique develops he could be a very good DE.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drd23 wrote:
What do people think of Louis Nix III? For those that don't know who he is, he is a 6'3" 330lb DT for ND with impressive strength and a good first step that helps him penetrate gaps.

Its probably unlikely he comes out, and even if he does he isn't really a Ravens type pick given that he'll be a rSO but he has been absolutely dominant the few times I've seen him and could be fit at either NT (or DE if we stick with Pees and his variation on the 3-4)

I don't think he's a good fit for our defense. He looks like he's definitely better as a 3-technique than as a 5-technique. He's not going to provide us with a great pass rush if we put him in at DE as he doesn't have the speed necessary to get to the QB from that far out. He could potentially play the NT, but I think that successfully negates his best ability to shoot gaps and use his strength to push the pocket. He also doesn't exhibit the size that I'd want in our next 34 DE. He's only about a half an inch shorter than Sheldon Richardson but Richardson is about as short as I'd go with a 34 DE. Honestly, Nix reminds me a lot of former UCLA and former Bucs defensive tackle Brian Price in the way they play. He's obviously bigger than Price in both height and weight, but they look to be possessed of similar builds and similar strengths as players going into the draft process. I might need to look back on Price's tape to be sure of that comparison however.

I'd much rather we target Bennie Logan if we're looking for a slightly undersized DE. He has better speed and a better understanding of leverage. He's built like Arthur Jones- only with better technique and is a bit more explosive. He's not tall, but has long arms that allows him to keep OTs from latching onto him. Also considered to be a tireless worker. If he comes out (he's a redshirt junior), he could be within range for us late in the 1st... I wouldn't mind him if Richardson isn't available. I think he's the next best fit. And closely after Logan (or maybe even 4b to Logan's 4a) I like Sylvester Williams ahead of Nix as a fit for our defense. Williams has similar size, better length, better speed, and similar explosive ability. He has nice hands and when he plays with leverage is tough to stop. I'd take Williams and Logan over Nix3 for a fit on our defense.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Robert Woods becoming so underrated recently, I'm starting to come back around on him. I'm not a fan of his durability because he's been unhealthy all this year (which could mean he's a slow healer), but his route running reminds me of former USC receiver Damian Williams. Similar builds also. The only difference is that Woods clearly has more burst of the LOS and deep speed to challenge defenses and be effective in multiple ways.

If he falls to our pick, I might be behind him as a pick.

That being said, he still wouldn't provide a solution to our biggest weakness at WR- which is to secure a redzone threat. On that front, DaRick Rogers looks like he might be our best value if the Ravens would be willing to make that pick with him being a junior PLUS having character concerns. On a pure athleticism/upside standpoint however, Cordarrelle Patterson is a guy I want. He just has so many tools. He's like a bigger version of what Tavon Austin provides, only a guy his size shouldn't be able to move like that. If he develops his route running and has the work ethic you look for... he could turn into a scary WR at the next level- he has the skillset to get it done.
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DreamKid


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Louis Nix is an insane player, he has a non stop motor and plays smart. He gets good penetration while being a force against the run, I would love to have the task of figuring out where to plug him in our defense. That's the kind of problem this team needs, because Jones, Mcphee, and Cody are not getting it done.

What do you guys think of Cordarrelle Patterson?

He was a top prospect out of JC last year who ended up at Tenn. He is 6-3 205, and looks like he runs sub 4.4, I feel like we could snag him and turn him into a steal possibly bigger than Torrey Smith. Though if he entered the draft, he would most likely shoot up the boards.

Edit: Sorry DB24 didn't notice you mention Patterson, I agree with you about him all the way.
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DreamKid


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who doubts Alec Ogletree's ability should throw on the Alabama tape, and prepare to be validated. Every year some linebacker gets hyped and will fall in the draft. Like a Darry Beckwith type guy who was being mocked to us in the 1st, and ends up going undrafted. Vontaze was the same last year, he will fall and hard. He is weak, has poor technique, and will be enjoyed by NFL lineman.
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