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Willis McGahee Out 6-8 Weeks with Torn MCL
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5232
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Papa-Pwn wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
or gets Manning blown up.


And that is why he's not been playing.
The fact that he fumbles about every 30 touches is bad but tolerable. The fact that he fans about 1 time in 5 in pass pro is unforgivable.


He has 9 fumbles in his career on 551 touches. One fumble every 61.2 attempts.

He is actually a damn fine pass protecting back, as good as any on our team. Yes he had a bad couple plays in pass pro early this season, it happens to the best of them.


You're right, I misread the 9 for 19 in fumbles. We'll have to disagree on his pass pro though. IMO he's a turnstile.
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BroncsDominate


Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 1005
Location: Fishing at Standley Lake
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Willis out get ready to see a lot of different looks in the backfield. One of the persons that gets most overlooked is Mike McCoy who is doing a great job as OC this year. I know Peyton has an enormous effect on our offense but I do not belive McCoy gets the credit he deserves. I wouldnt be surprised if we see Tamme or Dreesen in the backfield at the FB spot as well as some more Holliday out of the backfield. I do not believe, with Manning this team needs to run for huge numbers to be effective, especially now that he and the receivers are becoming so familiar. Anyways, I believe McCoy will be creative in finding some new ways to keep the running game going and confusing opponents defenses with some new looks.
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broncosfan07


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holliday might get some passes out of the backfield again.
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Papa-Pwn


Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 670
Location: Colorado/South Carolina
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncosfan07 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
or gets Manning blown up.


And that is why he's not been playing.
The fact that he fumbles about every 30 touches is bad but tolerable. The fact that he fans about 1 time in 5 in pass pro is unforgivable.
Moreno can't be relied on or trusted with the ball or in protection.

Moreno has gotten every chance to succeed and failed continuously


See, I would really like for you to explain your thinking on this. Rationally, of course, because it just sounds like you are blinded by unfounded hate.

You need to consider the fact that he was drafted onto a rebuilding team led by Kyle Orton and Josh McDaniels, hardly the best situation for a rookie RB to have success. Yet, he eclipsed 950 yards rushing and 1000 total yards to go with 9 TDs. He did this at a very pedestrian 3.8 YPC, which is the same as Ronnie Hillman. A sub par rookie year for sure, but when your passing attack to keep defenses honest is Kyle Orton, along with a pretty poor OL, it's about what one should expect. Success? Maybe not. Complete failure? Certainly not.

His next year he started very well, with 780 rushing yards at an improved 4.3 YPC to go with 370 receiving yards(at over 10 YPR) and 8 TDs before he was regrettably injured and missed 3 games. An injury, bad luck. I would hardly call this him failing in any capacity, nor should anyone else. Unless injuries are failures on all NFL players' parts.

The year after, coaching change. New guys brought in. Though he again increased his YPC by .5, boosting it to 4.8 YPC on limited carries, due to McGahee's success, and not exactly helped my Moreno's poor luck with lingering injuries. His season was again ended by injury. Success? Maybe not in bulk, but he did well enough in limited touches. Complete failure? I'm not so sure he played enough for that. Again, bad luck, it happens, it sucks. Unless every player that gets injured is completely failing.

The next year, this year, he plays in two games after earning the #2 RB spot. Scores a TD and averages a weak 1.9 YPC, then fumbles the following week. Never seen again. I believe that a poor start to the season was not the only reason he was taken from the active roster. I believe the coaching staff views him as a poor man's McGahee, similar players with similar strengths/weaknesses, but McGahee utilizes those strengths much better than he. Making Moreno a poor choice for a change of pass back, since they employ similar styles of running. I think the coaching staff saw this and thought to themselves that Hillman has a very different skillset, and a very different running style, so after Moreno's miscue they reevaluated and decided to roll with Hillman as the COPB. Since going from McGahee to Hillman is more of a change of pace than Moreno to McGahee.

I'm not excusing Moreno's faults early on, I'm sure they played a part. As well as I believe his healing knee did too(Coach Fox mentioned that during his Wed. interview). I believe they kept Ball because he is the special teamer/utility guy, and the RB you plug in if you have a big lead. Not someone you want to give extensive touches to, but he's there if needed.

So taking that last mega-paragraph in mind, I believe Moreno will see significant touches with McGahee out, he is the only RB on the roster that has significant experience being #1. His knee is fully healthy, he is fresh. This is the best OL and Passing threat he's ever had, and will take off much more pressure than Orton and Tebow did. I don't expect them to ride him like they have McGahee, but I am confident he will lead the RBs in touches throughout these last 6 games, and start more of them than he does not. Whether this is a fruitful opportunity for him, I don't know. But I do know I want it to be, and I believe it can be. Go Broncos.
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Papa-Pwn


Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 670
Location: Colorado/South Carolina
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncosfan07 wrote:
Holliday might get some passes out of the backfield again.


Hopefully, it was good to see him get some plays on offense at Carolina, could be a decent threat to break one open with that speed of his.
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Joe_is_the_best


Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 6966
Location: Houston
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncosfan07 wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
We should have drafted Doug Martin... but regardless, I think we'll be ok. Willis does a much better job of getting through traffic, but that isn't Hillman's forte. I mean Hillman weighs more than CJ, so size isn't the big problem, it's want-to. I think Fox's decision to deactivate Moreno was partly to get him healthy. If the Broncos saw nothing in him, he would have been cut. I actually think Moreno can be decent, and this is likely his last chance.
Moreno was deactivated because he fumbles and is horrendous at pass protection. Not because he wasn't healthy.
Ok but if you see what I said, I mentioned it was part of it. It was an easier decision. Generally players don't get deactivated for making a few mistakes. He had actually been ok in pass protection in the past... Regardless, he's fully healthy now, and it would be wise to use all 3 backs.
It's no coincidence that Moreno was deactivated after the Atlanta game.

Great activate him, doesn't mean he'll be used other than maybe 5 plays. People keep having this hope that this time Moreno will take advantage of his chance. Yeah except for the part that every time he is given the chance he fumbles or gets Manning blown up.
It's called reality. Yeah he fumbles every other carry doesn't he? Fox has serious issues if he thinks we are just fine with Ball and Hillman. And guess what? Both have missed blocking assignments and both have fumbled.

What's with the hate? Yeah he's been useless. So what? The coaches see enough to keep him around, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. He will play though, I can assure you.
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broncosfan07


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
We should have drafted Doug Martin... but regardless, I think we'll be ok. Willis does a much better job of getting through traffic, but that isn't Hillman's forte. I mean Hillman weighs more than CJ, so size isn't the big problem, it's want-to. I think Fox's decision to deactivate Moreno was partly to get him healthy. If the Broncos saw nothing in him, he would have been cut. I actually think Moreno can be decent, and this is likely his last chance.
Moreno was deactivated because he fumbles and is horrendous at pass protection. Not because he wasn't healthy.
Ok but if you see what I said, I mentioned it was part of it. It was an easier decision. Generally players don't get deactivated for making a few mistakes. He had actually been ok in pass protection in the past... Regardless, he's fully healthy now, and it would be wise to use all 3 backs.
It's no coincidence that Moreno was deactivated after the Atlanta game.

Great activate him, doesn't mean he'll be used other than maybe 5 plays. People keep having this hope that this time Moreno will take advantage of his chance. Yeah except for the part that every time he is given the chance he fumbles or gets Manning blown up.
It's called reality. Yeah he fumbles every other carry doesn't he? Fox has serious issues if he thinks we are just fine with Ball and Hillman. And guess what? Both have missed blocking assignments and both have fumbled.

What's with the hate? Yeah he's been useless. So what? The coaches see enough to keep him around, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. He will play though, I can assure you.
He'll play but for the people acting like he's going to come back and start and turn his career around(again) are going to be disappointed. He's just another Tatum Bell, talented but makes mistakes that hinder his career.
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Joe_is_the_best


Joined: 31 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I'm saying is that we're not going to roll with just Ball and Hillman. Hey Moreno could restore his career, he could not, but he's the most experienced RB on the roster.
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broncosfan07


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
All I'm saying is that we're not going to roll with just Ball and Hillman. Hey Moreno could restore his career, he could not, but he's the most experienced RB on the roster.
That's obvious but clearly it was an option to bring someone else in otherwise we wouldn't have worked out Slaton and Hester. He might be on the gameday roster this week but there's no guarantee he will be next week.

Some and I'm not saying you are one of these people, are saying Moreno is going to come back start and do great. Whereas there is no evidence that Moreno will ever do that, especially coming off a knee injury that took some of whatever speed he had away.
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AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manning audibling to run plays against pass defense looks is a huge part of our offense and more generally what McGahee brought to this offense was the ability to have a guy who could stay in and pick up blitzers while also being able to find a hole and run the ball when we hand off.

Unfortunately I'm not sure we have another back who can do both things well. Lance Ball can block, Hillman can run, Knowshon can suck, none can do both. I'll be curious to see how much this changes our offensive approach. Will we stick with the same type of approach and just hope a guy develop into the role or is this injury to McGahee going to change our approach to offense?
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rizzy


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just picked up Moreno, you think it is safe for me to drop Hillman, or is he going to magically get 15 touches this week?
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jonnyj20


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rizzy wrote:
Just picked up Moreno, you think it is safe for me to drop Hillman, or is he going to magically get 15 touches this week?

Start Moreno over Hillman. Take it to the bank.
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