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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 49882
Location: Hillsboro, OR
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 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:46 am Post subject: |
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Oh yeah, one last thing....
HEY EVERYONE WHO PICKED THINKS THE REFS KEEP "HANDING" US WINS:
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drd23
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 5507
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:50 am Post subject: |
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That thread sums up almost everything that makes FF the best and worst football forum on the internet and why I rarely post in anything other than a GDT in Gen and don't in Comparisons (the 2 worst forums for that sort of thing imo)
- No, it was not the play of the year (sorry SnA)
- Yes, most of the defense took wrong angles and basically lost contain.
- Yes, Flacco is an idiot for throwing a ball 2 yards when he needed 29 - but what's new?
- Sure, there might have been an illegal block in the back (I'm holding my opinion on that until the All-22 footage comes up on Game Pass so I can take a different look at it at better resolution than you can get on Youtube atm, but my feeling it was into his side)
- Sure, have your qualms about where the ball should have been spotted
But to ignore the situation and what was actually adjudicated on the field and basically say the play was "meh" is asinine and I would have thought that a few of those posters would have been above the quality of argument they are putting forward in there.
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 33730
Location: Hashtag BirdCity
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | KiddKillah, I'm with you man. So much hate for such a great and unlikely play.
The problem I have with Flacco checking that down is that the percentage and the likeliness you have of a RB running through (what was it, like 6-7 guys??) and 29 yards is SOOOO UNLIKELY that it was simply not a good choice. Period. It should've have worked, and that's why that play is so great by Ray Rice, because there should be NO WAY we convert that.
But we did. And we won. And everyone else can suck it because we're 9-2 (somehow) and pretty much just clinched the AFC North after we dismantle the Steelers next week (what is this optimism?!).
But back to Flacco, there's no way you don't at least TRY to throw the ball down the field in that situation, there just isn't. 9/10 times that play fails. Ray Rice is gang tackled and we lose right then and there. Today was just our day, I guess.
Furthermore, it speaks volumes as to how our coaches feel about Flacco when we had 9 or so seconds left and 1 TO, but instead of taking one more chance and going for the win, we take the ball out of Flacco's hands and settle for a FG (once again relying on a kicker, even if it is Justin Tucker, this is why you call Flacco elite, this is WHY you're about to give him an extension). I think Harbs sees that Flacco isn't elite and simply played it safe so that if we fail, we can blame the rookie K instead of Flacco. That's just my observation though, and obviously Flacco came up clutch in OT (kinda...got VERY lucky that Weddle didn't pick the pass off into double coverage and also the other tipped pass at the LoS).
Okay, I'm going to bed now. It's been a crazy freakin' night. I hope I dream about that Ray Rice run. Holy smokes that was magical to watch. |
As I said in NFL Gen, Flacco is in a no-win situation.
They showed clear as day all 4 of his receivers downfield were blanketed. The pocket was collapsing.
Had Joe just thrown the ball up for grabs, people would be screaming "WTF Ray Rice was wide open! Even if it's a minute chance of him converting, at least it's a chance! Instead Joe throws into quadruple coverage! What a dolt!"
But Joe decides to throw it to the guy who is open and who could potentially make a big play, and it's "OMG he checked it down instead of lobbing it up for a 4 on 6 jump ball! What a dolt!"
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sp6488
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 11762
Location: MD
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Man there is some uber-saltiness about this game in NFL Gen....
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RavensTillIDie
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 16746
Location: N.W.O
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| sp6488 wrote: | | Man there is some uber-saltiness about this game in NFL Gen.... |
I think someone just needs to make a fourm wide avatar of a salty pretzel with the caption, "U Mad?". Would be perfect to represent Raven's nation at this point.
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| bananabucket wrote: | | Matts4313 wrote: | | For years the argument has been, mostly, Peyton V Joe V Brady as the GOAT QB. |
Flacco? |
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sp6488
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 11762
Location: MD
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| DontTazeMeBro wrote: | Simmer down guys. We're still gonna win.
It's like you've never watched this team before. |
It's not going to happen, but I want every one of you guys who declared this a loss in the first half to reflect on this win. Store this memory in your mind for the next Ravens game you watch. Hopefully when you see a first down converted on 3rd and long or a score by the opposing team in the first half, you will have the strength to resist calling the game over.
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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 49882
Location: Hillsboro, OR
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| drd23 wrote: |
That thread sums up almost everything that makes FF the best and worst football forum on the internet and why I rarely post in anything other than a GDT in Gen and don't in Comparisons (the 2 worst forums for that sort of thing imo)
- No, it was not the play of the year (sorry SnA)
- Yes, most of the defense took wrong angles and basically lost contain.
- Yes, Flacco is an idiot for throwing a ball 2 yards when he needed 29 - but what's new?
- Sure, there might have been an illegal block in the back (I'm holding my opinion on that until the All-22 footage comes up on Game Pass so I can take a different look at it at better resolution than you can get on Youtube atm, but my feeling it was into his side)
- Sure, have your qualms about where the ball should have been spotted
But to ignore the situation and what was actually adjudicated on the field and basically say the play was "meh" is asinine and I would have thought that a few of those posters would have been above the quality of argument they are putting forward in there. |
I never said it was  I said it should be at least in the discussion for POTY.
Flaccomania: I, for one, would have NEVER yelled at Flacco for trying to force it down the field on 4th and 29.
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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 49882
Location: Hillsboro, OR
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| RavensTillIDie wrote: | | sp6488 wrote: | | Man there is some uber-saltiness about this game in NFL Gen.... |
I think someone just needs to make a fourm wide avatar of a salty pretzel with the caption, "U Mad?". Would be perfect to represent Raven's nation at this point. |
Yes, yes, and heck yes!
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Mancunian Raven
Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 3468
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| sp6488 wrote: | | Man there is some uber-saltiness about this game in NFL Gen.... |
Well, don't you know that anyone from Jaquizz Rogers to Rashad Jennings could have made that play without breaking a sweat?
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sp6488
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 11762
Location: MD
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| RavensTillIDie wrote: | | sp6488 wrote: | | Man there is some uber-saltiness about this game in NFL Gen.... |
I think someone just needs to make a fourm wide avatar of a salty pretzel with the caption, "U Mad?". Would be perfect to represent Raven's nation at this point. |
Haha I like it!
This will have to suffice for now:
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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 49882
Location: Hillsboro, OR
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| sp6488 wrote: | | RavensTillIDie wrote: | | sp6488 wrote: | | Man there is some uber-saltiness about this game in NFL Gen.... |
I think someone just needs to make a fourm wide avatar of a salty pretzel with the caption, "U Mad?". Would be perfect to represent Raven's nation at this point. |
Haha I like it!
This will have to suffice for now:
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Resize that and it's my new avi 
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BaltimoreTerp
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 34331
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | As I said in NFL Gen, Flacco is in a no-win situation.
They showed clear as day all 4 of his receivers downfield were blanketed. The pocket was collapsing.
Had Joe just thrown the ball up for grabs, people would be screaming "WTF Ray Rice was wide open! Even if it's a minute chance of him converting, at least it's a chance! Instead Joe throws into quadruple coverage! What a dolt!"
But Joe decides to throw it to the guy who is open and who could potentially make a big play, and it's "OMG he checked it down instead of lobbing it up for a 4 on 6 jump ball! What a dolt!" |
I'll just re-post what I said in NFL Gen thread of unimpressed McKayla Maroney's shrugging at 4th and 29, because it hits on a lot of the same things w'e're talking about. I more or less feel that Joe made a possibly questionable decision at a moment where there really wasn't a good option, similar to what you just said:
| Quote: | Whether it's chucking it towards the 1st down marker/goalline or throwing it short, it's a low percentage attempt based on the logic that at the very least, you want to give your team a chance. A chance to catch a contested jump-ball, or a chance to find some running room and get to where they need to be. Both plays only accomplish half of what you're looking for: A deep throw guarantees you've got the yardage but only gives you a prayer of getting possession. A checkdown/dump-off guarantees you possession but leaves you with the cards stacked against you in terms of getting the yardage necessary.
Flacco was faced with two really bad options during that play: chuck it downfield when no one was open or even looking back at him, or give it to a wide-open Ray Rice and hope that somehow Ray could get him 30 yards. Joe said after the game that he was looking for Torrey to look back and stop his route and that if he had done that, he would have chucked it downfield. But Torrey, Boldin, and the other receivers weren't in a position to make a play, so he gave it to Rice. The sheer length of time Flacco held on to that ball before finally relenting and giving to Rice said to me at least that he really didn't want to check down because it was most likely going to do absolutely nothing for us. He did it because he really felt that of his two bad options, it was the slightly better option. I might disagree with that and say that you should still throw it downfield, but in the end we're talking about the Ravens having a very low chance at converting regardless of what Joe had decided.
I think there's some level of cognitive dissonance here though: If it was such an easy play for Rice with the entire left side of the field open and the Chargers defense so generous, why was it a bad decision by Flacco to give it to him? The truth is, it was a low percentage decision and Rice, relatively speaking, made something out of nothing. Flacco's clutch moment came later on, with the perfect 3rd down pass downfield to Torrey in OT to set up the GW field goal.
I can live with Flacco's decision because, well, it ended up working, but I can almost guarantee it won't work like that next time. This whole season has been week after week of us finding a new, slightly unconventional way to win a game. On the one hand, you feel like maybe it's unsustainable. But on the other hand, the fact that we have a different guy step up in the crunch time every time says a little something about the team's ability to grind out results and the fact that we flat out know how to win, something that is exceptionally important to me because for years we've been on the other side of that coin, so gloriously talented but always prone to shooting ourselves in the foot and losing winnable games in crunch time. |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Hashtag BirdCity
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | Flaccomania: I, for one, would have NEVER yelled at Flacco for trying to force it down the field on 4th and 29. |
I certainly think that if he threw it up into double/triple coverage and it was shown that Ray Rice had 10-15 yards of green in front of him and was wide open, you'd have been the first person screaming at Flacco for throwing it into coverage.
But, I digress on that point, nobody is going to come out and say "Yeah I would have been mad about that too."
But, I will say to you: This is exactly what I talked about all week -- Flacco gets it done when it matters.
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Flaccomania is a genius who is an expert on literally everything he talks about so you should trust him. [/quote] |
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Mancunian Raven
Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 3468
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | Flaccomania: I, for one, would have NEVER yelled at Flacco for trying to force it down the field on 4th and 29. |
I certainly think that if he threw it up into double/triple coverage and it was shown that Ray Rice had 10-15 yards of green in front of him and was wide open, you'd have been the first person screaming at Flacco for throwing it into coverage.
But, I digress on that point, nobody is going to come out and say "Yeah I would have been mad about that too."
But, I will say to you: This is exactly what I talked about all week -- Flacco gets it done when it matters. |
Flacco chose to do something that would have made him look really, really stupid if it hadn't worked.
Chucking a desperate pass is the done thing. It's what people expect, and if it doesn't work, the QB doesn't get the blame. Because it rarely works. He could have just closed his eyes, flung his arm and walked off the field, and no one would have called him on it.
Instead, he clearly takes his time, sees that no one is free, sees the pocket collapsing around him, sees that Rice is open at the LoS with acres of open field in front of him, and takes a gamble. And if that's not worthy of being praised as good QB play, I don't know what is.
If Rice got nailed by Weddle five yards short of the marker, then Rice doesn't carry the can. Joe does. Ray Rice wouldn't be expected to rush 30 yards in that situation. Joe knows that, and he made what I think was a gutsy, ingenious call. It's a shame not many people are willing to concede that.
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RavensTillIDie
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 16746
Location: N.W.O
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Mancunian Raven wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | Flaccomania: I, for one, would have NEVER yelled at Flacco for trying to force it down the field on 4th and 29. |
I certainly think that if he threw it up into double/triple coverage and it was shown that Ray Rice had 10-15 yards of green in front of him and was wide open, you'd have been the first person screaming at Flacco for throwing it into coverage.
But, I digress on that point, nobody is going to come out and say "Yeah I would have been mad about that too."
But, I will say to you: This is exactly what I talked about all week -- Flacco gets it done when it matters. |
Flacco chose to do something that would have made him look really, really stupid if it hadn't worked.
Chucking a desperate pass is the done thing. It's what people expect, and if it doesn't work, the QB doesn't get the blame. Because it rarely works. He could have just closed his eyes, flung his arm and walked off the field, and no one would have called him on it.
Instead, he clearly takes his time, sees that no one is free, sees the pocket collapsing around him, sees that Rice is open at the LoS with acres of open field in front of him, and takes a gamble. And if that's not worthy of being praised as good QB play, I don't know what is.
If Rice got nailed by Weddle five yards short of the marker, then Rice doesn't carry the can. Joe does. Ray Rice wouldn't be expected to rush 30 yards in that situation. Joe knows that, and he made what I think was a gutsy, ingenious call. It's a shame not many people are willing to concede that. |
+1 for this post.
100% agree with you on that, if nothing else this is probably one of the best indicators of Joe's growth and maturity as a leader. He took a gamble in that situation and basically acknowledged that if it failed, all the blame would be directed to him. He did what, in his mind, gave the team the best chance to make a play in that situation, and luckily for us it worked. Now obviously this won't work out in our favors every single time, but I'd rather take a quarterback willing to make the smart play and do what he thinks is best, rather than heed to the prevalent thought of the majority and merely do what's expected of him.
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| bananabucket wrote: | | Matts4313 wrote: | | For years the argument has been, mostly, Peyton V Joe V Brady as the GOAT QB. |
Flacco? |
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