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Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 6635
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:

If you're talking about what he could become, how can that be argued. That's entirely my point. Other fans watch other players become or not become. Raider fans talk endlessly about what a player "could" become. But for 25 years there aren't many who have become much at all.

But that can be argued? That's quantifiable? That's not just your opinion based on an impression?
So what was the point of your rant again?

Yes, how good a guy is today is quantifiable. And past production as well as present production defines that. It doesn't? It's called performance. You know, on the football field? In the NFL? Playing football? Not how fast, or how close, or who he's like, or how he almost this or almost that, or any of that crap. Per - For - Mance.

That wasn't what i was talking about. Is Raiders fans being more guilty of that than other fan base quantifiable?
Nope, not quantifiable. A opinion. And I believe it to be a credible opinion, because of the nature of the way this team was run for the last 25-30 years. Potential weighed heavily with the choosing of our personnel, moreso than other teams. And so the fans look to that potential as if it has value. Well, it doesn't if that potential doesn't turn into performance. And that potential does not equate to performance. But I feel the lines between the two get blurred by Raider fans way too often.

Well, you have every right to have that opinion just like people have every right to have the opinion that player X has the potential to become a good player. But honestly, as far as this forum is concerned, praises and criticism are well balanced.

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Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 8060
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Comparing playing style and level of play are two different things though. I mean, take a long and lanky dude who can jump, catch and run stupid fast. Only thing is he doesn't make a ton of plays but is good for a long one now and then. He'd still get Moss comparisons.

Sure enough. But looking at the list of guys in that thread there's one thing in common. They're all pro bowlers or former stars. Noone is comparing Moore to Doug Gabriel, Raghib Ismael, or Mervyn Fernandez, or whomever he legitimately compares to both in style and level of play. Every guy they are comparing to is coincidentally known for a high level of play that Moore has not even remotely reached.

The guys he's compared to are good because he has played good and they are used as reference because they're references at the WR position. If Moore had played like trash he wouldn't be compared at all or maybe to Todd Watkins...
Anyway, what you're doing is picking a few over the top comments and running with it to make your own over the top comment and generalizing a fan base. What's the point? Go to any team forum on this site and you'll find the same over the top comments about some of their young players.

Fair enough, and true. It's my opinion, and it's only an opinion, that a large portion of Raider fans are addicted to potential (moreso than other fans) after being fed a steady diet of it in our draftees for 25 years. And that those same fans weigh potential too heavily, almost as if wishing makes reality. And it doesn't.

With all due respect I haven't read every last comment in this thread but generally speaking I concur with the theme of ghost's replies. RaiderNation is extremely polarized when it comes to evaluating it's players. IMO, fair and balanced isn't two loons at far ends of the spectrum disagreeing with one another. Fair and balanced is two moderates who disagree but understand and respect the others opinion.

two points:

Other fanbases are more accurate more often simply because their teams are better but that isn't meant to suggest they are any less the homer or more knowledgeable.

Also I don't think the Raiders are as bad "skill-wise" as some suggest. Because of a decade of turmoil and lack of continuity the Raiders have a mix-mash of athletes that don't sync together to play as a team. Installing YOUR system gets you fired in today's NFL. Find a way to win with the players you currently have. Player's of RGIII's ilk have been around since Vince Evans the only reason these type of players are finding success now is because coaches are more creative, flexible and the paradigm has changed.
Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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