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Do you currently believe Ryan Tannehill is the answer?
Yes, he is on the right track and just needs to develop with expirience.
93%
 93%  [ 54 ]
No, I wouldn't be surprised if Barkley was a Dolphin in 2013.
6%
 6%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 58

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phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovaw8lover wrote:


Actually, I do. I have gone on record as saying Miamii should keep drafting QB's until they find one. But I understand that will not happen. Draft picks are too valuable. I dont think Miami can afford to target any specific position in the draft. They have to draft athletic impact players regardless of position. So if the top QB falls to Miami, they need to take him. If the top NT, LB or whatever is available they have to take him. Miami is void of talent. We have also been saying give the QB weapons before we judge him. We said the same thing with Chad Henne and we are still looking for weapons.



I like the premise. I like the idea of keeping your focus on QB but the bad thing about drafting BPA is that you might wind up with the 4 best D-linemen in the NFL and a 5-11 record.

Building a team is as much about knowing how much you need as it is about where to put it. What it boils down to is whether you are ready to proceed to the others positions after watching Ryan Tannehill this year. You don't get to draft a Matt Barkley or Geno Smith without giving up on Ryan Tannehill. That's the reality of things.


I believe that Tannehill is a fine enough option and that our most pressing need is the glaring lack of size and speed at WR. Guard equals that but doesn't require a 1st round pick.

I do believe that we need other options to boost our TE, DE and CB positions but there is no way we can pass up getting a top-end WR in my mind.
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SaveourSonics


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are ready for you...

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=505386
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hammer


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 514
Location: Cincinnati
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
ovaw8lover wrote:


Actually, I do. I have gone on record as saying Miamii should keep drafting QB's until they find one. But I understand that will not happen. Draft picks are too valuable. I dont think Miami can afford to target any specific position in the draft. They have to draft athletic impact players regardless of position. So if the top QB falls to Miami, they need to take him. If the top NT, LB or whatever is available they have to take him. Miami is void of talent. We have also been saying give the QB weapons before we judge him. We said the same thing with Chad Henne and we are still looking for weapons.



I like the premise. I like the idea of keeping your focus on QB but the bad thing about drafting BPA is that you might wind up with the 4 best D-linemen in the NFL and a 5-11 record.

Building a team is as much about knowing how much you need as it is about where to put it. What it boils down to is whether you are ready to proceed to the others positions after watching Ryan Tannehill this year. You don't get to draft a Matt Barkley or Geno Smith without giving up on Ryan Tannehill. That's the reality of things.


I believe that Tannehill is a fine enough option and that our most pressing need is the glaring lack of size and speed at WR. Guard equals that but doesn't require a 1st round pick.

I do believe that we need other options to boost our TE, DE and CB positions but there is no way we can pass up getting a top-end WR in my mind.


You bring up a good point on the size of WR's. I would think a young QB would benefit from WR's with the largest catch range possible.

Personally I would not draft Barkley or Smith even if QB was an area of need. It would not shock me at all if both fell to the second round. Barkley does not have enough athletic ability to compensate for his lack of size and Geno Smith has just enough of a wind up to make me nervous.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammer wrote:
phinmun wrote:
ovaw8lover wrote:


Actually, I do. I have gone on record as saying Miamii should keep drafting QB's until they find one. But I understand that will not happen. Draft picks are too valuable. I dont think Miami can afford to target any specific position in the draft. They have to draft athletic impact players regardless of position. So if the top QB falls to Miami, they need to take him. If the top NT, LB or whatever is available they have to take him. Miami is void of talent. We have also been saying give the QB weapons before we judge him. We said the same thing with Chad Henne and we are still looking for weapons.



I like the premise. I like the idea of keeping your focus on QB but the bad thing about drafting BPA is that you might wind up with the 4 best D-linemen in the NFL and a 5-11 record.

Building a team is as much about knowing how much you need as it is about where to put it. What it boils down to is whether you are ready to proceed to the others positions after watching Ryan Tannehill this year. You don't get to draft a Matt Barkley or Geno Smith without giving up on Ryan Tannehill. That's the reality of things.


I believe that Tannehill is a fine enough option and that our most pressing need is the glaring lack of size and speed at WR. Guard equals that but doesn't require a 1st round pick.

I do believe that we need other options to boost our TE, DE and CB positions but there is no way we can pass up getting a top-end WR in my mind.


You bring up a good point on the size of WR's. I would think a young QB would benefit from WR's with the largest catch range possible.

Personally I would not draft Barkley or Smith even if QB was an area of need. It would not shock me at all if both fell to the second round. Barkley does not have enough athletic ability to compensate for his lack of size and Geno Smith has just enough of a wind up to make me nervous.


Talking about WRs for a moment:

Size is not really an issue between the 20s where route combinations, play design and play calling should be able to make use of a variety of different types of athletes.

The problem comes when guys like Hartline, Bess, Clay and even Fasano enter the redzone. None of those guys really has the height or strength to be a real advantage.

When throwing to our WRs, there's really no margin for error and in some cases there's no window for Tannehill to aim for anyway. Virtually any pass to a guy like Davone Bess for example is almost too risky.

We just cannot expect to get more than 3 or 4 TDs a year from any of our receiving targets. It's not their fault and it's nothing Tannehill can do. We need to keep guys like Bess, Hartline and Clay but we need to give this offense more weapons to work with overall.

We're basically hog-tied when we get inside the opponents 10 yard line because we don't have anyone who Tannehill can reliably toss the ball to. I don't trust Hartline on fades to the pylon, he's not strong enough. I don't trust Bess on the quick slants because he's not physical enough. I don't trust Fasano because he's not always able to get open.


As far as QBs...

Drafting a guy in the top 2 (even 3) rounds basically means you've drafted your starter. We aren't going to do that obviously now that we've sunk a 1st rounder in Tannehill.

I'm not against the idea of bringing in a guy in the 6th round to develop but the problem is that "developing QB" spot already belongs to Pat Devlin who Philbin already openly stated in a press conference was "the teacher's pet."
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Miami2DaMax


Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 787
Location: North Carolina
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovaw8lover wrote:
Miami2DaMax wrote:
ovaw8lover wrote:
Miami2DaMax wrote:
ovaw8lover wrote:
Mpjjk89 wrote:
WaterBear56 wrote:
Sorry for the late update. Can't believe we were talking about Henne and he had that kind of game. Guy still sucks though, they had about 200 yards after the catch, from what I read on their forum.

Which brings me to my question. Why can't we get more yards after the catch? Every time a receiver gets his hands on the ball he is stopped right there. Love seeing Bess try to juke corners though, he can never do it so he always just walks out of bounds. But seriously, we need more quick slants. Most of Tannehills passes are to the outside numbers or right through the middle of the field, typically when a receiver is wide open.

What's even more alarming is the fact that our WR's have only caught 3 TD passes this season.

3 TD's in 10 games for WR's is the league worst, and yes, even worse than the KC Chiefs.


This is why I am not sold on Tanney. He is not capable of scoring in the redzone. His TD's come from distance. You have to be able to function in the redzone to be an effective QB. This is why he is not even close to RG3 and Luck. It is great that he is playing but I seriously doubt he will ever be what those guys are. His ceiling is not that high. I dont know why this name keeps coming to my head but I think he is going to be Josh McCown. And I understand I am making judgements too early in his career but there is nothing about him that appears special to me. Should be interesting to see how he grows next year because I am not impressed at all from what I see so far.


Even if you aren't on sold him, do you wanna draft another QB with out first 4 picks? No. He needs another year or two before we start that talk. We can at least give him an above average WR and a little more help in blocking before that talk starts.


Actually, I do. I have gone on record as saying Miamii should keep drafting QB's until they find one. But I understand that will not happen. Draft picks are too valuable. I dont think Miami can afford to target any specific position in the draft. They have to draft athletic impact players regardless of position. So if the top QB falls to Miami, they need to take him. If the top NT, LB or whatever is available they have to take him. Miami is void of talent. We have also been saying give the QB weapons before we judge him. We said the same thing with Chad Henne and we are still looking for weapons.


Henne's not on the team, now is he? We gave him a Semi-Weapon, Marshall and traded him...if you like women beaters and just plain crazy people on your team than more power to ya...all he did was whine and complain, Tannehill never got a go with him...so your post doesn't even make much sense...not mention you said you do than later you don't want them to keep taking QBs, uhm what?

I've spoken with many scouts/previous scouts face to face. They target dozens and dozens of players encase someone doesn't make it to that pick they like.

Also Henne is 5 years pro, not a rookie. Man, I'm sorry but you need know football before you talk like that. Sounds like to me you have already made a decision about Tannehill or just looking for more drama.


The reason we study history is so we do not make the same mistake. My point in bringing up Henne is the team was void of talent then and that remains the reality. But of course you knew that. You just wanted to disagree with my post, which is fine. Now, on to your face to face interaction with many scouts. You or anyone else on this forum can do just as good a job at evaluating talent than any of these scouts you spoke with. They have the same eye for football as fans. We can tell you shifty quick players are better at returning punts. We can tell you there is a such thing as being too tall to play runningback. The best runningbacks are somewhere in that 5'8-5'9 height. We can tell you 6'8 offensive tackles will always struggle to pass block fast, quick, smaller defensive ends.

So excuse me if I place little emphasis on your conversations with scouts. They, along with these Sports commentators are no expert at what they do. They are you and I with a title or a forum to publicize their opinions. And of course they target many players. How is this new information? It goes without saying.

Brandon Marshall's off the field issues has nothing to do with his on field performance. But that is another point. In fact, why did you even bring his name up? I am baffled by your response? Did you even read my post or did you just glance over the parts you wanted to disagree with? Laughing


You clearly was talking about Marshall when you said Henne had a weapon, who else was the weapon you'd be talking about?

Of course I disagreed with you...is that wrong? Are you not supposed to that on forums? Not only that I just randomly seen two other people disagree with you...it's not like it's rare or something.
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hammer


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
hammer wrote:
phinmun wrote:
ovaw8lover wrote:


Actually, I do. I have gone on record as saying Miamii should keep drafting QB's until they find one. But I understand that will not happen. Draft picks are too valuable. I dont think Miami can afford to target any specific position in the draft. They have to draft athletic impact players regardless of position. So if the top QB falls to Miami, they need to take him. If the top NT, LB or whatever is available they have to take him. Miami is void of talent. We have also been saying give the QB weapons before we judge him. We said the same thing with Chad Henne and we are still looking for weapons.



I like the premise. I like the idea of keeping your focus on QB but the bad thing about drafting BPA is that you might wind up with the 4 best D-linemen in the NFL and a 5-11 record.

Building a team is as much about knowing how much you need as it is about where to put it. What it boils down to is whether you are ready to proceed to the others positions after watching Ryan Tannehill this year. You don't get to draft a Matt Barkley or Geno Smith without giving up on Ryan Tannehill. That's the reality of things.


I believe that Tannehill is a fine enough option and that our most pressing need is the glaring lack of size and speed at WR. Guard equals that but doesn't require a 1st round pick.

I do believe that we need other options to boost our TE, DE and CB positions but there is no way we can pass up getting a top-end WR in my mind.


You bring up a good point on the size of WR's. I would think a young QB would benefit from WR's with the largest catch range possible.

Personally I would not draft Barkley or Smith even if QB was an area of need. It would not shock me at all if both fell to the second round. Barkley does not have enough athletic ability to compensate for his lack of size and Geno Smith has just enough of a wind up to make me nervous.


Talking about WRs for a moment:

Size is not really an issue between the 20s where route combinations, play design and play calling should be able to make use of a variety of different types of athletes.

The problem comes when guys like Hartline, Bess, Clay and even Fasano enter the redzone. None of those guys really has the height or strength to be a real advantage.

When throwing to our WRs, there's really no margin for error and in some cases there's no window for Tannehill to aim for anyway. Virtually any pass to a guy like Davone Bess for example is almost too risky.

We just cannot expect to get more than 3 or 4 TDs a year from any of our receiving targets. It's not their fault and it's nothing Tannehill can do. We need to keep guys like Bess, Hartline and Clay but we need to give this offense more weapons to work with overall.

We're basically hog-tied when we get inside the opponents 10 yard line because we don't have anyone who Tannehill can reliably toss the ball to. I don't trust Hartline on fades to the pylon, he's not strong enough. I don't trust Bess on the quick slants because he's not physical enough. I don't trust Fasano because he's not always able to get open.


As far as QBs...

Drafting a guy in the top 2 (even 3) rounds basically means you've drafted your starter. We aren't going to do that obviously now that we've sunk a 1st rounder in Tannehill.

I'm not against the idea of bringing in a guy in the 6th round to develop but the problem is that "developing QB" spot already belongs to Pat Devlin who Philbin already openly stated in a press conference was "the teacher's pet."


What if Logan Thomas is available in the 4th round? I'd give it shot.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammer wrote:


What if Logan Thomas is available in the 4th round? I'd give it shot.


This topic is an interesting hypothetical because Matt Moore won't be under contract forever. I think the coaches will let him go if Devlin appears capable of running the offense as a backup. I know Philbin likes how he throws the ball.

That would open up the 3rd QB spot but I think in the short term the team will stick with Moore's veteran experience. I could see us eventually drafting another 5th-, 6th- or 7th-round QB. He will get little-to-no attention with Tannehill and Devlin on the roster though.
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WaterBear56


Joined: 26 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
hammer wrote:


What if Logan Thomas is available in the 4th round? I'd give it shot.


This topic is an interesting hypothetical because Matt Moore won't be under contract forever. I think the coaches will let him go if Devlin appears capable of running the offense as a backup. I know Philbin likes how he throws the ball.

That would open up the 3rd QB spot but I think in the short term the team will stick with Moore's veteran experience. I could see us eventually drafting another 5th-, 6th- or 7th-round QB. He will get little-to-no attention with Tannehill and Devlin on the roster though.


Moore is a FA this offseason.
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PhinFan52


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think maybe Tanny is "forcing" too much.. he now has 12 INTS with 6 comming in the 2nd qtr and 5 comming with 2 mins or less in the half ...
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WaterBear56


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhinFan52 wrote:
Think maybe Tanny is "forcing" too much.. he now has 12 INTS with 6 comming in the 2nd qtr and 5 comming with 2 mins or less in the half ...


Nice find PhinFan.

Tanny with another nice game. Let's hope he explodes vs NE.

When was the last time that a 16 game starter had less than 10 touchdowns? I don't always see eye to eye with Ovaw but he is 100% right on the fact that we can't seem to throw in the red zone.
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miami not throwing TD in the redzone has been a problem for years not just this year. We do not have playmakers or guys to win jump balls and especially a scoring threat TE.
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Kaiowas05


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did this game bear any resemblance ot the Bucs 09 win?

1st year starter QB still coming of age, had detractors and supporters. Come from behind late on, back from an ugly INT, annoyingly agile QB around this time of year 3 years ago? Bess having a big day on the last drive, run game picking up steam....

Tale of caution really, we thought because Henne could lead us from behind late in the game that he would be the future. I love RT17 but he has his flaws, hopefully they will go/be coached away but this is not our first rodeo, right?
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DOLFAN016


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe there should be another rushing TD in his stat line for the season...
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WaterBear56


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fixed it.

I'm glad that Tanny is running more often. It also led way to a couple sacks though. Loved seeing both the TD run and that run on third down just before we converted the 4th.
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eugenebaldy


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unlike a lot of you guys....I don't get to see many Dolphin games atm. But I did see much of todays game.

It seemed to me that Tanny's wr's were not getting enough separation a lot of the time.

I'd like to see the front office find a shifty as heck slot receiver....maybe 2. I know thats kinda what Bess is but...someone shiftier than that.
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