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steelfan51


Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 433
Location: Vacaville, CA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Up
1. Defense played really well. Truly only responsible for 3 points.
2. Dwyer seemed to be effective running the ball, and finishing things late. I personally don't like the mention of The Bus every time he touches the ball, but he was solid last night.
3. Ike played absolutely lights out. Torrey Smith was playing extremely well coming into this game, and he was blanketed. Lewis on the other side as well.
4. Run d had multiple big time stops, and dominated the LOS.
5. Pass pro was pretty much there all night. Few lapses that cost us late, but overall that kind of protection usually results in a win with a better/not injured QB.

Down
1. Haley may have been set on playin to Lefty's strengths, but we did not play to the team's strengths. The run was there with Dwyer yet we pushed Mendy in. We threw deep on 3rd and short. We didn't utilize PA enough. Bad overall play calling IMO.
2. Mendy looked pretty bad. He did catch a few balls out of the backfield for 1st downs, which is why I don't say he looked outright awful. Although his final catch he showed a complete lack of situational awareness and made no effort to get out of bounds.
3. Byron was clearly hurting from the get get go. He had no chance to lead the offense to consistent success. Why not make the switch?
4. Wallace usually makes a drop or two, or some bone headed play, but then makes up for it in the long run. Didn't happen tonight. He seemed to be lacking effort.
5. Penalties/poor clock management. I guess coaching as a whole. The penalties all seemed to come at the worst possible time, and the end of game clock management was just horrid.
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ImissEricGreen


Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 1033
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UP
1. Seeing Haley genius, I didnt get it at 1st but allowing the RB to set up 9yds off the ball gave the oline a chance to open up some holes. Thats a great adjustment to the weakness of our oline.
2. Defense
3. Will Johnson- great blocker but once he gets involved with the passing game, easy mismatch

Down
1. Mendy has no vision, great power & speed but he missed a lot of opportunity to bounce to the outside.
2. Foote- tripping penalty
3. Sanders- should have return that last punt.
4. The fact the we rather risk losing a timeout for a challenge, than having confidence in the oline to get an half inch.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 10035
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rewatching the game now with a focus on Hood and then Heyward.

PRELIMINARY results so far:

Hood played 12 LoS snaps (I don't count punts or anything)

I have him as:

3 plays (-1.0)
5 plays (-0.5)
2 plays (0.5)
2 plays, no grade

I have Heyward (as of this writing, in 3rd QTR) at 22 snaps

2 plays (+1.0)
7 plays (+0.5)
3 plays (-0.5)

Heyward is doing 2 things that I don't think I've ever seen Ziggy do:

1) Play the stand-up, read/react/contain, and STILL get pressure
2) Get off blocks once engaged

Heyward shows strength in 2 areas that Ziggy sucks:

1. Handfighting
2. Shedding blocks

Looking forward to a full All-22 once it's posted.
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Kethy: Why don't you think Heyward starts? Also, do you think Hood would play better at right defensive end to spell Keisel?
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 50412
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ImissEricGreen wrote:
2. Foote- tripping penalty
3. Sanders- should have return that last punt.
4. The fact the we rather risk losing a timeout for a challenge, than having confidence in the oline to get an half inch.


These 3 are pretty ridiculous.

Foote's tripping penalty was BS. Even if he tried he didnt actually do it, and as I understand it, its only if you actually trip the player, which he didnt do.

Sanders should have returned that last punt? What? You can say that about every punt return. Pretty silly to have him as a down for that.

And number 4....we have been stopped several times this year on 4th and very short.....that was easily the right call, especially considering it was painfully obvious it was a poor spot.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at23steelers wrote:
@Kethy: Why don't you think Heyward starts? Also, do you think Hood would play better at right defensive end to spell Keisel?


Like most players, they are grooming him.

And we dont know what he looked like in training camp. From all reports, Ziggy looks amazing every training camp. Sadly, it doesnt translate to Sundays.
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDLefebvre wrote:
MightyJoeYoung wrote:
It's quite possible that Wallace literally was incapable of getting his foot down because of body position or whatever, do you really think he isn't trying to put it down?


Agreed.

Running with the ball the way he did on the fumble, now that was all his fault.


I just don't see a player with desire as I did with Brown or others. The fumble was bad, I agree. Embarassed
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
@Kethy: Why don't you think Heyward starts? Also, do you think Hood would play better at right defensive end to spell Keisel?


Like most players, they are grooming him.

And we dont know what he looked like in training camp. From all reports, Ziggy looks amazing every training camp. Sadly, it doesnt translate to Sundays.


As I said though, do you think Hood would be better to take over Keisel's job then next season, and leave Heyward slotted in there opposite him? Keisel and Hood could spell each other the rest of the year.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 50412
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at23steelers wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
@Kethy: Why don't you think Heyward starts? Also, do you think Hood would play better at right defensive end to spell Keisel?


Like most players, they are grooming him.

And we dont know what he looked like in training camp. From all reports, Ziggy looks amazing every training camp. Sadly, it doesnt translate to Sundays.


As I said though, do you think Hood would be better to take over Keisel's job then next season, and leave Heyward slotted in there opposite him? Keisel and Hood could spell each other the rest of the year.


From what Im seeing of Hood, I dont think he would fair much better in Keisel's spot.

The only hope I have for Hood now is if we completely change how we use him, and the only way I can see that is if LeBeau retires. And no...this isnt me saying I want LeBeau to retire....but he is trying to use Ziggy like Aaron Smith, and obviously, its not working.
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
@Kethy: Why don't you think Heyward starts? Also, do you think Hood would play better at right defensive end to spell Keisel?


Like most players, they are grooming him.

And we dont know what he looked like in training camp. From all reports, Ziggy looks amazing every training camp. Sadly, it doesnt translate to Sundays.


As I said though, do you think Hood would be better to take over Keisel's job then next season, and leave Heyward slotted in there opposite him? Keisel and Hood could spell each other the rest of the year.


From what Im seeing of Hood, I dont think he would fair much better in Keisel's spot.

The only hope I have for Hood now is if we completely change how we use him, and the only way I can see that is if LeBeau retires. And no...this isnt me saying I want LeBeau to retire....but he is trying to use Ziggy like Aaron Smith, and obviously, its not working.
'

Ziggy has talent though to be a good player. I think him and Heyward have really bright futures. I agree, that we need to change how we use him though. Clearly, the Chiefs gameplan was just to attack him all night and it worked.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 50412
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at23steelers wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
@Kethy: Why don't you think Heyward starts? Also, do you think Hood would play better at right defensive end to spell Keisel?


Like most players, they are grooming him.

And we dont know what he looked like in training camp. From all reports, Ziggy looks amazing every training camp. Sadly, it doesnt translate to Sundays.


As I said though, do you think Hood would be better to take over Keisel's job then next season, and leave Heyward slotted in there opposite him? Keisel and Hood could spell each other the rest of the year.


From what Im seeing of Hood, I dont think he would fair much better in Keisel's spot.

The only hope I have for Hood now is if we completely change how we use him, and the only way I can see that is if LeBeau retires. And no...this isnt me saying I want LeBeau to retire....but he is trying to use Ziggy like Aaron Smith, and obviously, its not working.
'

Ziggy has talent though to be a good player. I think him and Heyward have really bright futures. I agree, that we need to change how we use him though. Clearly, the Chiefs gameplan was just to attack him all night and it worked.


Hood has talent, but we arent utilizing his strengths. Im not saying he would be great if we did, but right now, he looks like a bust.
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
@Kethy: Why don't you think Heyward starts? Also, do you think Hood would play better at right defensive end to spell Keisel?


Like most players, they are grooming him.

And we dont know what he looked like in training camp. From all reports, Ziggy looks amazing every training camp. Sadly, it doesnt translate to Sundays.


As I said though, do you think Hood would be better to take over Keisel's job then next season, and leave Heyward slotted in there opposite him? Keisel and Hood could spell each other the rest of the year.


From what Im seeing of Hood, I dont think he would fair much better in Keisel's spot.

The only hope I have for Hood now is if we completely change how we use him, and the only way I can see that is if LeBeau retires. And no...this isnt me saying I want LeBeau to retire....but he is trying to use Ziggy like Aaron Smith, and obviously, its not working.
'

Ziggy has talent though to be a good player. I think him and Heyward have really bright futures. I agree, that we need to change how we use him though. Clearly, the Chiefs gameplan was just to attack him all night and it worked.


Hood has talent, but we arent utilizing his strengths. Im not saying he would be great if we did, but right now, he looks like a bust.


* the coaching staff has been a bust in utilizing Hood's strengths!! Wink

Btw, I may be one of the few who thinks keeping in Lefty the whole game was the right move. Batch probably has not played a snap in practice since training camp, so he'd be rusty coming in. It doesn't matter how experienced you are, you will be rusty, just watch I think was the Browns game last year where he came in. Not to mention, it was 2 minutes left, game on the line against a rival, so to throw that on someone who is rusty coming off the bench is a tough move to make.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 10035
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at23steelers wrote:
@Kethy: Why don't you think Heyward starts? Also, do you think Hood would play better at right defensive end to spell Keisel?


I have a very cynical view of why Heyward doesn't start.

1. I think the DL coach (John Mitchell) and LeBeau really ride the DL hard if they "do too much". Ta'amu got criticized for it. Hood got benched for it after he blew up the 2nd half of 2010. Heyward saw 5 snaps when he tore the NYJ up the last series, and finished the game off with a sack of Sanchez. I have used the term "neuter" and "castrate" before to describe what they do to DL. It's almost like basic training, you have to "unlearn" everythign you know about being a human being and "learn" how to be a soldier. I disagree with this method entirely when you're dealing with first round talent. You do it with a late-rounder like Keisel or Hoke. You do it with a 3rd rounder like Ta'amu who never had coaching because he was always big and never needed coaching. You don't forcibly remove the skillset that made these guys 1st rounders to begin with. It is frickin' moronic.

2. Keisel starts because he's the veteran. LeBeau doesn't start the young guys over the vets unless the vets simply cannot start. That has been proven time and time and time and time and time again.

3. Our DL coach and our DC have a 'cookie-cutter' approach to the defensive line and the front 7 (Timmons aside). the player fills the position, regardless of what his or her talent and skillset is. The role of our NT is to squat and hold. The role of our LDE is to extend and contain. The role of our RDE is to penetrate...sometimes...and contain...sometimes. Doesn't matter who is there, you do what you're supposed to do based on the positional requirements, regardless of where your skillset actually lies. What's that? JJ Watt is a beast? Fuggit. He'll do THE EXACT SAME ROLE as the guy before him. Who cares what he *can* do? He fills the cookie cutter, plain and simple.

I've said numerous times that JJ Watt would still be riding the bench behind Keisel. Why? Because Hood was drafted first, and therefore it's his position, and injuries are required before a veteran is replaced. Aaron Smith went down before Keisel, so that was the opening. Now it's Ziggy's position. Doesn't matter how well Heyward plays this year, when Ziggy comes healthy, it's his position again.

Doesn't matter whether his skillset is more appropriate for the right side or the left side, all that matters is that he is next. For all I know, this might be more than just LeBeau and Mitchell, it might be Tomlin as well.

As for Ziggy on the right side and Heyward on the left, I said that before the season. I absolutely think that would be better. I do think Ziggy's best position is, quite easily, as our nickel pass rushing DT. He pushes the pocket really well when his responsibiilty is to do nothing but explode off the snap and get his shoulder into the OL, low man wins.

Ziggy's arms are like 1.5-2" shorter than Heyward, and he's 2 inches shorter as well. Their bodytypes are very different. Heyward is a defensive end who is used to using his hands to fight off the long-armed blocks of an offensive tackle. Ziggy is a defensive tackle who is used to shooting gaps and getting chest on chest with a guy, low-man wins. Well, he's 6'2, 310 lbs. He's usually the low man.

FourThreeMafia wrote:

Like most players, they are grooming him.


unfortunately, I think you're right. Of course, "grooming" is a euphamism for "neutering" in my opinion, and it drives me nuts.
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steelfan51


Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 433
Location: Vacaville, CA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rivers wrote:
JDLefebvre wrote:
MightyJoeYoung wrote:
It's quite possible that Wallace literally was incapable of getting his foot down because of body position or whatever, do you really think he isn't trying to put it down?


Agreed.

Running with the ball the way he did on the fumble, now that was all his fault.


I just don't see a player with desire as I did with Brown or others. The fumble was bad, I agree. Embarassed

I agree with this. On the play in the end zone too, it just seems like a player of his caliber, if they're giving it their all, should make that play. Just seems to me like there is more to be left on the field with him.
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MightyJoeYoung


Joined: 03 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steelfan51 wrote:
3rivers wrote:
JDLefebvre wrote:
MightyJoeYoung wrote:
It's quite possible that Wallace literally was incapable of getting his foot down because of body position or whatever, do you really think he isn't trying to put it down?


Agreed.

Running with the ball the way he did on the fumble, now that was all his fault.


I just don't see a player with desire as I did with Brown or others. The fumble was bad, I agree. Embarassed

I agree with this. On the play in the end zone too, it just seems like a player of his caliber, if they're giving it their all, should make that play. Just seems to me like there is more to be left on the field with him.

Yes, the player should if it was biomechanically possible for him to do so
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