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stchamp98


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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
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Location: Havre, Montana
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Stchamp98 Breaks Down OL; Chance Warmack Up Reply with quote

EDIT:

I've decided to change course and instead of just breaking down these two guys, I'm going to break down as many of the draft eligible offensive lineman as I can. I've enjoyed doing this and will just keep going until I burn out I guess. I'm gonna try and do at least 2 games for each prospect if possible. The next breakdown I will be posting is of Central Michigan offensive tackle Eric Fisher.

I am also changing my grading system. I'm going to keep running totals for each guy and do a big board of offensive lineman based on those rankings when I'm finished. Grading will be on a 1-12 scale and that breaks down as follows.

A+=12
A=11
A-=10
B+=9
B=8
B-=7
C+=6
C=5
C-=4
D+=3
D=2
D-=1
F=0
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great idea i was going to do poll of which of the two all you guys liked better
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taylor Lewan, University of Michigan

vs. University of Alabama. Clip length: 5:26

Summary: Not as engaged in pass protection as he is in the run game. Seemed to just be doing the bare minimum. Not poor in protection, just doesnít seem as engaged. Not as active with his hands in pass protection as he is in the run game. Bends well but doesnít move his feet well. For this again I question how engaged he is. Got stood up a lot in the pass game and never once did I see him try and re-anchor and fire back into his man. Allowed 1 pressure, was directing players at the line and wasnít fully ready for the snap, defender beat him inside with his hands and drove him backwards with ease. Completely different demeanor in the run game, ESPECIALLY when heís released off the line. CONSISTENTLY saw him seek out someone to block when released off the line. Looked very mobile and quick on 1 pull but ended up having to try and block a defender that either the guard or tackle should have isolated and wasnít able to get out and block someone in space. Run was stuffed due in large part to this, IMO. Still, the athleticism is encouraging. Doesnít actually dominate the LOS, however. Only saw 2-3 plays where he drove his guy off the ball directly off the snap.

Overall Thought: Not very happy with the play in the pass game, even if he only allowed just 1 pressure. Never re-anchoring is borderline unacceptable. That wonít fly in the NFL, not with the caliber of pass rushers in this league. Classic game where a guy does nothing wrong but doesnít do much to positively impact the game either.

Grade: 6


vs. Notre Dame University: Clip length: 8:59

Summary: Great feet in this game. Hand usage still very shoddy however. Most of the time his hands are at his sides and he just mirrors the defender with his feet movement. Twice now watched him, while blocking his man, peer over his left shoulder to see if Denard Robinson is still in the pocket. Not a fan. One might think itís cool that heís got his guy locked down enough to be looking at the QB but that WILL NOT fly in the NFL. You have to stay engaged to your man at all times. I hope he knows that. Beaten badly for a sack at the 1:50 mark on an inside move. Eerily similar to the sack Matthews gave up against Florida, only difference is this is the end and not a blitzing man. Hand usage is reason for the sack. Doesnít get his hands up quick enough, guy easily swims him and beats him to the inside. Kid needs to learn to try and re-anchor himself. Driven back on 2 straight plays where he gets stood up slightly but doesnít try and re-anchor. Really athletic. Michigan ran a ton of traps, pulls and counters in this game, Lewanís athleticism is a big part of that IMO. Theyíve pulled him 3 times already 4 and a half minutes in and he looks good every time. Pulls inside on a run play at the 5:30 mark that goes and he makes a crucial block on a 15-25 yard run. Good push on run plays, drives his man back on more than a few occasions.

Side Note: Denard Robinson is the worst quarterback Iíve seen on tape this year

Overall thoughts: Really athletic kid with a lot of tools that you simply canít teach but the hand usage is holding him back. He should be up there battling Luke Joeckel and Geno Smith to go #1 overall but instead heís toiling around the top 10-20. Itís disappointing. And before anyone tells me hand usage can be taught, let me state this for the record: Hand usage is just as much a frame of mind as it is a technical aspect of the game. For that, you either have it or you donít. Taylor Lewan, at this point, doesnít have it.

Grade: 6
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake Matthews, Texas A&M University

vs. University of Florida: Clip Length: 12:44

Summary: Already seen 2 cut blocks a minute or so into the film, both well executed though not terribly difficult. Short passing plays were called. Great job recognizing blitz and picking up the correct man. Got a better kick step then other analysts give him credit for but heís not real sudden out of his stance due to the stiffness. I think analysts are mistaking that for some of his issues because I saw a very proper, technical kick step at least a dozen times. I actually think heís got a great kick step. Even though heís a little stiff he moves his feet pretty well. Executed a perfect QB draw for a TD. Acted like he was just going to absorb his man in the pass game and then exploded right thru him to spring Manziel for 7. Great job at the 7 minute mark when, after being slightly beaten off the edge, he dropped his butt, re-anchored and locked his man down. Does it twice more later in the film. Good not great hands. Beaten for a sack at the 7:50 mark. Recognizes the blitz and slides his feet out to the right to pick the guy up but he instead breaks inside and beats Matthews with his hands. Beat again inside at the 8:37 mark for a pressure. Played the outside WAY too much on both plays (Does it AGAIN at 8:50 mark). Levi does that a lot tooÖ. These plays came in the first half. Now in the 2nd half, heís playing the inside much tighter. Be interesting to see how many pressures they assigned to Matthews in this game. Manziel runs himself into the defender Matthews is blocking 3 times that I see (None for sacks). Inconsistent hand usage in the run game. Defender got his hands inside his pads on 3 straight run plays. A&M ran 3-4 screens that I saw and not 1 went to his side (Side note: Saw 1 screen where Luke Joeckel absolutely CRUSHED his guy. Literally threw him 3-4 yards out of the way. It was pretty cool to watch). Not much drive off the LOS.

Small Note: The Florida defender Matthews is guarding should have been called for illegal hands to the face about 5 times in this tilt. Donít know if he ever was but itís clear as day on the film. On Sundayís, thatís a flag.

Overall thoughts: Mixed feelings but overall, a negative. Definitely some good but the fact that he was beaten badly 3 times in the first half on inside moves worries the heck out of me. IMO, heís being beaten inside like that because heís worried he canít handle the defender on the outside athletically. Actually Iím gonna go on record and say thatís exactly what it is. When you never once get beat to the outside but get beat 3 times in 1 half to the inside, youíre overcompensating for the outside athletically. Thatís a big worry for me. Not much in the run game either, although the QB draw score was a beaut. I was hoping for more out of Matthews in this one.

Grade: 4


vs. LSU: Clip Length: 10:55

Summary: Lines up against Barkevious Mingo, who is lining up WAY wide. Mingo trying to bull rush him early, not working. Mingo getting no pressure on the outside either. Matthews doing a great job of letting Mingo run himself out of the play. LSU seems to have switched now at about the 1:15-1:20 mark. Matthews now lined up against #89, LaVar Edwards. Edwards is lined up much more in-line than Mingo but doesnít seem nearly as athletic. Matthews is pushing him all over the place. Mingo back up on Matthews now, tries to go inside and Matthews shuts him down. Great hand usage. Mingo having a little success pushing Matthews back at the 3:02 mark. Beating him with his hands and getting inside his pads. Matthews gives up a pressure to Mingo at the 3:30 markÖ.on an inside move. Should have been a sack but Manziel easily slips him. 4:10 mark, lined up against Edwards, Manziel runs right into him and should have been sacked. Thatís on the freshman QB, hope the analysts arenít charging that to Matthews as he does nothing wrong. Matthews is absolutely phenomenal at recognizing blitzing linebackers and trying to get them picked up. 4: 30 mark, seen him correctly do it 4 times. 6 minute marked, 3 straight plays against Mingo and Mingo drops back into coverage all 3 times. Heís stopped trying to pressure it seems. Matthews killing in the run game now. 2 straight runs at the 7 minute mark go directly thru his gap for 10+ yards. 8 minute mark and Mingo isnít even attempting to rush the passer. Heís literally just standing straight up and then jumping in the air to try and bat down any pass Manziel throws. Mingo gets a sack at the 8:50 mark on a play where Matthews blocks down inside and a back/receiver (Hard to tell, weird formation ) gets stuck 1 on 1 with him. Nothing on Matthews here, just weird that A&M would call this after all the success Matthews is having against Mingo outside. Watch the 9:45-ish mark. Matthews just schooling Mingo. Mingo even tries a desperation spin move and gets nothing. Matthews with a solid inside block at the 10:30 mark, TD run as a result.

Small notes: I THINK Matthews should have been called for a false start at the 5:40 mark but wasnít. Hard to tell, happened fast. On a play where Manziel scrambled for like a day and a half, Luke Joeckel had a BLATANT block in the back that doesnít appear to draw a flag but it should have. It was ridiculously obvious and really hard to miss. Johnny Manziel is absolutely terrible in this game. Made 5-6 of the dumbest decisions Iíve ever seen a starting quarterback make. Mingo plays in coverage a lot in this game as referenced in the summary.

Overall thoughts: Phenomenal game from Jake Matthews but the big pressure allowed on the inside move had me cringing after I watched him do it 3 times in the Florida game. This is an issue Iím going to pay special attention to going forward. NFL left tackles donít need to compensate to the outside (Which allows the inside rush) the way Matthews did in these 2 games. Gotta wonderÖ.

Grade: 9
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AZPSquared


Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought you were really high on Matthews
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
I thought you were really high on Matthews


I am, I just don't think he played as well in this one. Trying to remain unbiased and just call it like I see it.
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So after watching this which one do you prefer?

I still think Matthews will return to school though
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
So after watching this which one do you prefer?

I still think Matthews will return to school though


I hate to do this to you but I really can't say. I don't know how I feel entirely about Jake Matthews. Even though I've seen a lot more of A&M than Michigan, I actually feel as though I can more accurately peg Taylor Lewan right now than I can Matthews.
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DDOCKETT90


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you do one for joeckel please and thank you.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DDOCKETT90 wrote:
Can you do one for joeckel please and thank you.


I think that can be arranged. I'm breaking down Chance Warmack now but I can probably do Joeckel after that.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've decided to change course and instead of just breaking down these two guys, I'm going to break down as many of the draft eligible offensive lineman as I can. I've enjoyed doing this and will just keep going until I burn out I guess. I'm gonna try and do at least 2 games for each prospect if possible. The next breakdown I will be posting is of Central Michigan offensive tackle Eric Fisher.

I am also changing my grading system. I'm going to keep running totals for each guy and do a big board of offensive lineman based on those rankings when I'm finished. Grading will be on a 1-12 scale and that breaks down as follows.

A+=12
A=11
A-=10
B+=9
B=8
B-=7
C+=6
C=5
C-=4
D+=3
D=2
D-=1
F=0
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Through two breakdowns, here are my current offensive line rankings (Based on score aggregate). Players need to have 2 fully evaluated games to be ranked. Those rankings are subject to edit as more games are added

Offensive Tackle
1. Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M: 9
2. Jake Matthews, Texas A&M: 6.5
3. Taylor Lewan, Michigan: 6
4. Eric Fisher, Central Michigan: 5.5

Interior Offensive Line
1. Chance Warmack, Alabama: 10
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stchamp98


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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
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Location: Havre, Montana
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M University

vs. LSU. Clip length: 10:55

Summary: First 3 plays of the game are textbook tackle technique. With good knee bend and fluidity, he kicks steps solidly, anchors well and gets his hands up immediately and gets them on the DE. Textbook tackle technique. The 4th play of this clip is textbook poor play. Beat with his hands, doesnít anchor and gets driven straight back, almost gets pan-caked to his back. Blocks down on the DT in the run game on back-to-back runs plays to the right. Looks quick when doing so. Extremely fluid. Natural knee bender with a really nice kick step and slide. Hand usage has come and gone 2 minute though. Gets out in space on a screen pass at the 1:50 and makes a key block, a cut block, to spring the receiver for 6 points. Joeckel really anchors well but a couple of times the DE is getting inside his pads and the anchor doesnít matter, he gets driven back fairly easily. Needs to hit the weight room Iím guessing. The bull rush against a strong DE will definitely give him problems. Went up against Mingo for 3 straight plays here at the 4 minute mark and had no trouble, however. Didnít overcompensate to the outside the way Matthews did against Mingo and he still had no trouble. Speed might not bother him much. Great job of sealing off the edge on a run play at the 6:00 mark. The bull rush is still giving him some trouble. Heís not allowing any real pressure but when he gets knocked back like he is here in the 7:00 area it forces a QB to have to drop a little deeper than he normally would, which may affect the pass play entirely depending on what the call is. Thatís one of those things that will never hit a stat sheet and never hit a metric sheet but is still not really good tackle play. You need to have a tackle hold his ground or drive the man heís facing to the far outside past the QB(Or backwards or to the ground, thatís nice too), you canít have him going backwards. Heís doing a great job of running blisters to the outside past the QB. LSU has blitzed #34 5-6 times and each time Joeckel just rides him to the outside and out of the play. Heís not going backwards, heís going laterally in a circle. Thatís what you want to see. Great job at the end of the 9 minute mark to re-anchor and continue to hand fight after initially being moved backwards. Gets pushed back into Manziel at the 10:30 mark. Another inside the pads bull rush.

Side Note: Nothing really, had already watched this game once.

Overall Thoughts: Struggled against a really good DE when he bull rushed. When he didnít bull rush, Joeckel was lock down. Luckily in the pros, most of the REís heíll face are speed guys. He handles speed fairly easily. Needs to crash the weight room, IMHO, if he wants to be elite.

Grade: 7



vs. Mississippi State University. Clip Length: 12:19
Summary: Getting up field and hitting people in the run game on the first couple plays. Made a nice block on a 2-3 yard TD run. Lots of cut blocks early. He is consistently driving his man off the ball in the run AND pass game. Does a good job of riding his man outside past the QB at the 1:58 mark but he doesnít finish the block and guy does a phenomenal job of hustling himself back into the play and he tackles Manziel for a 2-3 yard gain. Amazing block at the 2:18 mark. Opens a hole the size of the Grand Canyon, 20 yard touchdown run as a result of that. LOL, at 2:35 mark, heís getting lazy with his hands and the DE starts to move him slightly backwards. Joeckel quits playing around and pancakes him to the ground. Do that from the beginning and youíll do just fine in the NFL Luke. Hasnít given up an inch in the pass game for the last 2-3 minutes and on most of the snaps heís driving his man off the ball. At the 8:15 mark now. While I realize this is only Miss St., Joeckel has made the last 3:30-4:00 minutes look way too easy. Rest of the game is the literally same game. Gives up nothing in the run game, consistently makes big blocks in the run game, including 1 beauty at the 11:00 mark.

Side Note: 7:55-ish mark, youíll see a massive crack back block by I think an A&M WR. Itís big. Johnny Manziel might be a legitimate ground threat but heís a borderline terrible passer. 2 dropped picks by Ole Miss and a ton of off the mark throws. Ugly mechanics. Heís a freshman but the hype train is still driving way too fast.

Overall Thoughts: This DE from Mississippi State isnít very good and because of that I didn't give a perfect score but in all reality thereís really no way you can play the offensive tackle position better than Luke Joeckel did on this game. The only word to use is dominant.

Grade: 11
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric Fisher, Central Michigan University

vs. Michigan State University. Clip length: 6:49

Summary: First off, heís really tall. Donít know what his exact height is but heís lanky for sure. 2:30 minutes in and I see pretty solid hand usage. Doesnít completely finish blocks, however. Had 2 plays where he made nice blocks but disengaged after a few seconds and allowed the end to almost sack the QB both times. Have to finish your blocks. At the 2:15-ish mark, Fisher initially blocks his man well but then switches to pick up the stunting DT. Not sure if heís supposed to do this or not. Just found it interesting. Another interesting one and heís done this 2-3 times now. Instead of initially engaging the end he pops up out of his stance, takes 1 lateral step to the left and then blocks his man from the side. Iím not sure Iíve ever seen that done. He makes nice blocks on each play. Does anyone ( Maybe Khodder) know if this is common practice? I never saw Lewan or Matthews do it. Itís actually fairly effective, at least it is for Fisher in this game. Make the guy think heís got an inside lane and then just wash him out. 3:20 mark getting beat with his hands. DE gets inside his pads on 2 straight pads and drives him back both times. Fisher re-anchors ok I guess but itís not enough, the DEís too far into his pads and the guy seems pretty strong himself. They replayed 1 play, against defender #44 and itís just crappy hand usage. Doesnít get his hands up to engage the guy and he drives Fisher right back. Thatís a knock right there. Good push in the run game on the next play but the play right after #2 drives him back AGAIN due to poor hand usage. Get your hands up and on the guy before he gets his hands inside. This is day 1 stuff. Better athlete than youíd think. Heís a natural knee bender.

Side Note: I was focused heavily on Fisher. Looked down at one point, score was 10 or 13 to 0. Looked down 2 minutes later and itís 31-0.

Overall Thoughts: Iím dying to know how many pressures they give Fisher credit for in this game. Heís beaten a lot but the QB is getting it out just before the guy gets there. No hits or sacks allowed but heís getting driven back/beat around the edge on a pretty regular basis. CMU was down 20-30 points (See: Side note) early in the 2nd half and rarely ran the football after that so his run game work was hard to notice. Pass protection needs work. His hand usage got progressively worse as the game went on. I was disappointed.

Grade: 3



Vs. Iowa. Clip length: 16:36

Summary: Really nice pull in the run game at the :30 mark. Goes off right guard and opens a big hole. Better RB probably takes that a long way, this one (Donít know his name) gets 6-7 yards. Has now stonewalled the DE on 3 straight plays with great hand usage. Not giving an inch. Pulls to the far left at the 1:45 mark and makes a big time seal block, touchdown run as a result. Was slightly driven back at the 2:40 mark but did a real nice job of recovering by rotating his shoulder and pushing the guy to the outside while maintaining his hand placement. Thatís solid work. At the 5 minute mark now, Fisherís really on his game. Not giving an inch in pass protection. Great footwork, great hands. Heís getting big time push in the run game. Gives up his 1st pressure of the day at the 5:28-ish mark, overcompensated to the outside and got beat inside. QB had to throw with a hand in his face. Getting consistent push in the run game 9 minutes in. His man gets a sack at the 9:30 mark and even though he gets pushed back on the play, itís on the QB. Guy runs straight into the DE with Fisher right there too. Not a good play from Fisher but Iím not giving him full credit for that. 13 minutes in and heís holding up very well. Anchoring well in the pass game, still getting nice push in the run game. Handling the bull rush really well in this game, much better than the last game.

Side Notes: CMU had receivers running wide open for a big chunk of this game. Iowa didnít even try to pick up the on-side kick at the very end. No idea why.

Overall Thoughts: He did allow a half sack and 2 pressures in this game but Iíd be hard pressed to say he didnít look good. Vast improvement over the first game I watched. Was a legitimate factor in both phases of the game and was in complete control for the bulk of the contest. Highly doubt the Iowa end is any good, he looked pretty weak and Iíll have to take that into account but a nice day nonetheless.

Grade: 8
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LuckyNumber11


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Eric Fisher, Central Michigan University

vs. Michigan State University. Clip length: 6:49

Summary: First off, heís really tall. Donít know what his exact height is but heís lanky for sure. 2:30 minutes in and I see pretty solid hand usage. Doesnít completely finish blocks, however. Had 2 plays where he made nice blocks but disengaged after a few seconds and allowed the end to almost sack the QB both times. Have to finish your blocks. At the 2:15-ish mark, Fisher initially blocks his man well but then switches to pick up the stunting DT. Not sure if heís supposed to do this or not. Just found it interesting. Another interesting one and heís done this 2-3 times now. Instead of initially engaging the end he pops up out of his stance, takes 1 lateral step to the left and then blocks his man from the side. Iím not sure Iíve ever seen that done. He makes nice blocks on each play. Does anyone ( Maybe Khodder) know if this is common practice? I never saw Lewan or Matthews do it. Itís actually fairly effective, at least it is for Fisher in this game. Make the guy think heís got an inside lane and then just wash him out. 3:20 mark getting beat with his hands. DE gets inside his pads on 2 straight pads and drives him back both times. Fisher re-anchors ok I guess but itís not enough, the DEís too far into his pads and the guy seems pretty strong himself. They replayed 1 play, against defender #44 and itís just crappy hand usage. Doesnít get his hands up to engage the guy and he drives Fisher right back. Thatís a knock right there. Good push in the run game on the next play but the play right after #2 drives him back AGAIN due to poor hand usage. Get your hands up and on the guy before he gets his hands inside. This is day 1 stuff. Better athlete than youíd think. Heís a natural knee bender.

Side Note: I was focused heavily on Fisher. Looked down at one point, score was 10 or 13 to 0. Looked down 2 minutes later and itís 31-0.

Overall Thoughts: Iím dying to know how many pressures they give Fisher credit for in this game. Heís beaten a lot but the QB is getting it out just before the guy gets there. No hits or sacks allowed but heís getting driven back/beat around the edge on a pretty regular basis. CMU was down 20-30 points (See: Side note) early in the 2nd half and rarely ran the football after that so his run game work was hard to notice. Pass protection needs work. His hand usage got progressively worse as the game went on. I was disappointed.

Grade: 3



Vs. Iowa. Clip length: 16:36

Summary: Really nice pull in the run game at the :30 mark. Goes off right guard and opens a big hole. Better RB probably takes that a long way, this one (Donít know his name) gets 6-7 yards. Has now stonewalled the DE on 3 straight plays with great hand usage. Not giving an inch. Pulls to the far left at the 1:45 mark and makes a big time seal block, touchdown run as a result. Was slightly driven back at the 2:40 mark but did a real nice job of recovering by rotating his shoulder and pushing the guy to the outside while maintaining his hand placement. Thatís solid work. At the 5 minute mark now, Fisherís really on his game. Not giving an inch in pass protection. Great footwork, great hands. Heís getting big time push in the run game. Gives up his 1st pressure of the day at the 5:28-ish mark, overcompensated to the outside and got beat inside. QB had to throw with a hand in his face. Getting consistent push in the run game 9 minutes in. His man gets a sack at the 9:30 mark and even though he gets pushed back on the play, itís on the QB. Guy runs straight into the DE with Fisher right there too. Not a good play from Fisher but Iím not giving him full credit for that. 13 minutes in and heís holding up very well. Anchoring well in the pass game, still getting nice push in the run game. Handling the bull rush really well in this game, much better than the last game.

Side Notes: CMU had receivers running wide open for a big chunk of this game. Iowa didnít even try to pick up the on-side kick at the very end. No idea why.

Overall Thoughts: He did allow a half sack and 2 pressures in this game but Iíd be hard pressed to say he didnít look good. Vast improvement over the first game I watched. Was a legitimate factor in both phases of the game and was in complete control for the bulk of the contest. Highly doubt the Iowa end is any good, he looked pretty weak and Iíll have to take that into account but a nice day nonetheless.

Grade: 8


As far as high school goes its used with slower tackles to help get to the DE faster. Especially if the tackle is getting burned by the DE. Its mostly used with sweeps as a hook block.
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