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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12329
Location: the 50 yard line
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 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| dolphinologist wrote: |
Merc, I mean no disrespect when I say this, but this reads like you have zero tolerance for Philbin. You have expressed concerns from as far back as camp. Forgive me if I've overlooked, but I have not seen you give any credit for the obvious change in this teams culture and the clear cut direction in which he has shown he wants us to go. I think he has to do something spectacular and undeniable for him to get a chance in your eyes.
btw ... posting comments from Rodney Harrison ? he hates the phins. It would have been better if it was Rodney Dangerfield or Harrison Ford. |
Its so odd how this forum continually seeks to put words in my mouth. I never said I didn't like Philbin. In fact, I said quite specifically IN THIS THREAD that sometimes good coaches make bad decisions. Don't misinterpret my vehemence about this single issue as a characterization or generalization about how I feel about Philbin. I actually like him, quite a bit. However, that will not stop me from being critical of him when I see missteps or shortcomings. Philbin has no people skills. We saw that first hand on Hard Knocks. I was critical of that, but also praised what I saw about him in regards to practice habits and his emphasis on character. I don't care what ANYONE says, benching Bush for a single fumble is asinine. Its short sighted and doesn't send a message to team other than we will not always put our best on the field. Philbin was wrong here, but that doesn't mean he is always wrong. Its simply means the rookie head coach threw a pick. It happens and is expected to happen, but giving him a free pass is not healthy or helpful.
As for discrediting Rodney Harrison simply because he played for the Patriots and you believe him not to like the Dolphins is really not pertinent. He is an analyst and called it like he saw it. I don't know if you've ever met and spoken to an NFL players before, but the rivalry stuff is way overblown according to the handful I've spoken too. Yes, they may hate single players in the league that they got into beefs with over the years, but rarely do they have the allegiances or passionate dislike of teams that the fans do. Either way, Rodney Harrison is perfectly able to formulate an opinion about football without considering his prior rivalry for a small portion of his career with the Dolphins. That just doesn't hold water. I think you just didn't like what he had to say.
Lastly, the idea that interceptions are "completely different" than fumbles needs to be explained. Turnovers are turnovers. I'd love to hear why you and others believe they are different. The end result is exactly the same, and they both come from mistakes. Philbin himself just came our and said he wouldn't tolerate mistakes. He didn't say I won't tolerate mistakes from my RB's, but rookie QB's are okay to make 3 mistakes per game. He said, no mistakes.....which by the way is absurd. I get that he wants to limit mistakes, but every single play, every single game has mistakes. Its part of the game.
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Deadeye
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 5873
Location: A Nearby Dolphin Encounter
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Miami2DaMax wrote: | | Deadeye wrote: | | Miami2DaMax wrote: | | Deadeye wrote: | You're picking nits Merc.
Bush was not going to turn the Titan game around for us, we were going to lose no matter what RB did. And losing that game didn't cost us the playoffs, we were going to miss that no matter what. Please drop the fake sense of urgency.
Bush got back in the game, so who cares if he missed 1 or 1.5 quarters? I prefer Philbin not show favoritism to any one player, and benching Reggie might have helped to send that message to the team. But as far as Tannehill goes, do you honestly think Philbin should bench him after a couple of interceptions? That would be moronic. He's still very raw, but he's also improving and experience will get him where we want him to be faster than benching him will.
We aren't playing for the 2012 post season. We are playing for the 2013 and/or 2014 post season. Keep developing our key players and keep the culture change moving along. |
Listen here oh smart one, you do NOT know that so just stop talking out of your [inappropriate/removed]. |
Your right. What was I thinking? Of course Miami will be a strong playoff contender all season long, and if Tannehill develops in time for the playoffs we might make a Super Bowl run. |
No, you think you're right about [inappropriate/removed] that's impossible to prove, like how Bush wouldn't have made a difference if he wasn't benched....you don't know that.
I hate people like you, no confidence at all and don't say you do because your posting's insulting to Miami fans. |
Did you even see the game?
I'm chillaxin on Sunday's believing that we are probably headed in the right direction. Losing doesn't bother me as long as the team appears to be doing what's necessary to get better. Tannehill's development is the top priority. And along those lines, Philbin changing the culture by sending messages is one of the things that I don't mind seeing.
That Titans game was toilet log. If you are insulted by the fact that I've realistically accepted the calibre of team we currently have, then there is nothing I can say to change your mind. I watch every chance I get, and I cheer for us to win every single time. That by itself qualifies me as a Phins fan.
What I don't do is mindlessly pretend as though we have a shot at winning games when we are losing by 20. And I don't convince myself that we can make the playoffs with a depleted offense lead by a rookie QB. If you do those things, more power to ya.
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phinmun
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Deadeye wrote: | | Miami2DaMax wrote: | | Deadeye wrote: | | Miami2DaMax wrote: | | Deadeye wrote: | You're picking nits Merc.
Bush was not going to turn the Titan game around for us, we were going to lose no matter what RB did. And losing that game didn't cost us the playoffs, we were going to miss that no matter what. Please drop the fake sense of urgency.
Bush got back in the game, so who cares if he missed 1 or 1.5 quarters? I prefer Philbin not show favoritism to any one player, and benching Reggie might have helped to send that message to the team. But as far as Tannehill goes, do you honestly think Philbin should bench him after a couple of interceptions? That would be moronic. He's still very raw, but he's also improving and experience will get him where we want him to be faster than benching him will.
We aren't playing for the 2012 post season. We are playing for the 2013 and/or 2014 post season. Keep developing our key players and keep the culture change moving along. |
Listen here oh smart one, you do NOT know that so just stop talking out of your [inappropriate/removed]. |
Your right. What was I thinking? Of course Miami will be a strong playoff contender all season long, and if Tannehill develops in time for the playoffs we might make a Super Bowl run. |
No, you think you're right about [inappropriate/removed] that's impossible to prove, like how Bush wouldn't have made a difference if he wasn't benched....you don't know that.
I hate people like you, no confidence at all and don't say you do because your posting's insulting to Miami fans. |
Did you even see the game?
I'm chillaxin on Sunday's believing that we are probably headed in the right direction. Losing doesn't bother me as long as the team appears to be doing what's necessary to get better. Tannehill's development is the top priority. And along those lines, Philbin changing the culture by sending messages is one of the things that I don't mind seeing.
That Titans game was toilet log. If you are insulted by the fact that I've realistically accepted the calibre of team we currently have, then there is nothing I can say to change your mind. I watch every chance I get, and I cheer for us to win every single time. That by itself qualifies me as a Phins fan.
What I don't do is mindlessly pretend as though we have a shot at winning games when we are losing by 20. And I don't convince myself that we can make the playoffs with a depleted offense lead by a rookie QB. If you do those things, more power to ya. |
I mostly concur with Deadeye.
Max, you may want to chill a bit here, too.
There's no reason to criticize anyone who's pretty much being realistic. There's no need to criticize someone because they aren't as idealistic or optimistic as yourself. When the likelihood of something occurring is minute then it's fair game to shift your focus to more positive things.
We were all rooting for a comeback--and there's a slim, slim chance Bush might've done some things for us--but it's certainly okay to tip your cap to the fact the odds were shifted severely away from that given our recent performances. |
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12329
Location: the 50 yard line
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12329
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| WaterBear56 wrote: | | The guy has failed to put it on the field. |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFA-6Pis5Yg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuiWYT-xhyM
Forgive the quality of the videos, but clearly Reggie puts it all on the field. His 4.4 yards per carry, and nearly 5.0 last year, tells us he does a lot with the ball in his hands. He is a big time player. He's no Adrian Peterson, but he is one hell of a RB.
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"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21" |
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phinmun
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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You alone are calling it an "issue." No one else here seems big on the topic which identifies what you're doing as crusading.
When you discuss Philbin, you do it with a tone that makes clear your thoughts.
You're as quick to respond to entertainment shows like Hard Knocks and rumor-mills like Bleacher Report as you are to anything else.
Just a tip, no one has to make a case against you if you're citing that website.  |
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phinmun
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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First video was a good play.
Second video was evidence of how bad the Raiders suck...ask all the other teams that have played them this year. |
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12329
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| phinmun wrote: |
First video was a good play.
Second video was evidence of how bad the Raiders suck...ask all the other teams that have played them this year. |
Really? So the cuts Reggie Bush made to lead to 174 yards rushing and 2 TD's were about the ineptitude of the Raiders? Did you watch the game? Did you see the cuts Reggie made? The spin move? The jukes? That's not Reggie, that's simply poor Raiders play? Shall I post more big plays of Reggie's NOT against the Raiders?
Reggie has been amazing on a team that lacks amazing. 5.0 yards per carry last year is insane. Ricky Williams never averaged 5.0 yards per carry in Miami. I'd be willing to bet that no RB in miami has averaged 5.0 yards per carry (with over 150 attempts) since Tony Nathan in the mid 80's, and Nathan was much more of a receiver than a RB.
Why people are stuck on the narrative that Reggie Bush isn't elite is beyond me. He may never be a 250 carry a season back, but what he does on the field is present mis-match issues for the defense and there is no other skill player on this team that does that. None.
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"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21" |
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phinmun
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | | phinmun wrote: |
First video was a good play.
Second video was evidence of how bad the Raiders suck...ask all the other teams that have played them this year. |
Really? So the cuts Reggie Bush made to lead to 174 yards rushing and 2 TD's were about the ineptitude of the Raiders? Did you watch the game? Did you see the cuts Reggie made? The spin move? The jukes? That's not Reggie, that's simply poor Raiders play? Shall I post more big plays of Reggie's NOT against the Raiders?
Reggie has been amazing on a team that lacks amazing. 5.0 yards per carry last year is insane. Ricky Williams never averaged 5.0 yards per carry in Miami. I'd be willing to bet that no RB in miami has averaged 5.0 yards per carry (with over 150 attempts) since Tony Nathan in the mid 80's, and Nathan was much more of a receiver than a RB.
Why people are stuck on the narrative that Reggie Bush isn't elite is beyond me. He may never be a 250 carry a season back, but what he does on the field is present mis-match issues for the defense and there is no other skill player on this team that does that. None. |
This is routine. We all know what Reggie Bush is and what he is not. There's no debate left in this topic. Go back 5 years and it's still a hip tune.
There aren't many teams good enough to feature a RB like Reggie. I'd say the Texans would qualify and the 49ers. Maybe on the Broncos he'd be a nice check-down guy with 5 or 6 touches a game.
The Saints did that and replaced him with Darren Sproles without blinking. He's a unique player that few RBs short of Sproles, Spiller and Rice can emulate but our offense and our offensive line...
...as I've said repeatedly now...
...makes this a moot point. |
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dolphinologist
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5356
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Y'all need to stop .... Reggie Bush is leaps and bounds more valuable than Darren Sproles. I admit that I don't give a damn about his benching but he does not have a fumbling problem and if we could block he would be like Ladanian Thomlinson in 2006 ... We really need to learn how to identify the source of the issues.
We don't have a play calling issue.
We don't have a ground game issue
We don't have a quarterback issue.
WE CAN'T BLOCK SUFFICIENTLY ENOUGH TO RUN OR PASS CONSISTENTLY
Our drives need to be longer. That would go a long way to solve problems.
2nd is our pass defense. Whenever a team decides to go pass happy on us we are in deep doo doo. I salivate at Seattles defensive backfield. The rest of their defense is not too shabby either.
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WaterBear56
Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Posts: 2878
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:00 am Post subject: |
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You guys are wrong. Any RB can look great with a great offensive line. Great running backs don't need it. Bush is a decent running back that has a lot of hype and is dominant only as a product of the passing game through screens and draws.
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dolphan9954
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 6942
Location: Miami
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| WaterBear56 wrote: | | You guys are wrong. Any RB can look great with a great offensive line. Great running backs don't need it. Bush is a decent running back that has a lot of hype and is dominant only as a product of the passing game through screens and draws. |
I have been told this by a successful coach before on this subject, and I tend to agree:
"A good offensive line gets the back through the line, a great back makes people miss and finishes the run."
While a good OL is crucial, they aren't what springs a back. The OL needs to be good enough to make the hole where the play is designed. Then the back needs to get through the hole ASAP, keep pads north and south and be able to make somebody miss or to cut off of a downfield block. It is a hand and hand relationship. The OL doesn't make the back, and the back doesn't make the OL.
Reggie is a good back for sure, but I see him as a player that works best in tandem. Reggie cannot block anyone, and he struggles to pound out the extra yard or two. Daniel Thomas is the perfect complement to Reggie. Thomas this season is finishing runs a lot better. The problem is that the holes aren't big enough and consistent enough for a young 235 pound back. Reggie can squeeze threw the hole because he is smaller and he hits it quicker because of speed. Improve the play at LG, RT, and LT and we'll see what we have in the backfield. Martin should improve over time, but he NEEDS an offseason in the weight room and working on his form.
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