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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
But why the hell would you take a DT over a solid OT at any point in the draft? If your OL is crappy like ours is, Matthews is the player for us. And who cares if he is a RT? We already have a solid young LT and there is a gaping hole on the other side of the OL.

Give me Matthews before a DT any day of the week.


BPA
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
RaidersJagsFan9 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
fwiw star's team still allows 126yrs/game rushing good for 99th in the nation and 104 in pass d. ive seen teams just run around star. imo he isnt haloti-like and wont impact the results of a game as much as an OT.


Stats...... LOL


sorry i know you like to base your arguments on opinions not stats and facts. my bad should have known better.

-btw did you see star's tko moment vrs wash last week?

Quote:
Lotulelei's mental mistake midway through the fourth quarter led to the Huskies pulling away. The senior defensive tackle was caught offsides to extend a Washington drive -- the second time Lotulelei was penalized for guessing the snap count rather than watching the ball


you bash tko all the time but you want to go through it again?

star has skills but also has discipline issues not to mention he has been inconsistent all year. starting to look like d. poe part 2. physical freak but lacks fundamentals.


OH NO HE MADE A MISTAKE!?!??!?!? NOOOOOO...... type of stuff you make up excuses for w/ Pryor and Russell.

Star >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jake Matthews get ovah it



Bruce Matthews son>>>>>>>>>>>>Utah Bust


Reasons or are we just making empty statements now??


Bloodlines are always a better choice to go with over a school who's best talent it could ever give out (Alex Smith) isn't even that good. Utah does not supply good talent in the NFL. Utah players are equivalent to being a bust.


Gross, Weddle, Steve Smith, Soliai...... Come on man. Utah ha some fine players.
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DOCLEW 28


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
But why the hell would you take a DT over a solid OT at any point in the draft? If your OL is crappy like ours is, Matthews is the player for us. And who cares if he is a RT? We already have a solid young LT and there is a gaping hole on the other side of the OL.

Give me Matthews before a DT any day of the week.


BPA


If it were my choice between the two the BPA would be Matthews.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
But why the hell would you take a DT over a solid OT at any point in the draft? If your OL is crappy like ours is, Matthews is the player for us. And who cares if he is a RT? We already have a solid young LT and there is a gaping hole on the other side of the OL.

Give me Matthews before a DT any day of the week.


BPA


If it were my choice between the two the BPA would be Matthews.


this.
a OT can help us better than a DT right now.
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
But why the hell would you take a DT over a solid OT at any point in the draft? If your OL is crappy like ours is, Matthews is the player for us. And who cares if he is a RT? We already have a solid young LT and there is a gaping hole on the other side of the OL.

Give me Matthews before a DT any day of the week.


BPA


If it were my choice between the two the BPA would be Matthews.


this.
a OT can help us better than a DT right now.


The question i think should be (assuming we pick around 5):

Do we pick Star with our Nr 5 pick and leave OL till 3rd at the earliest or trust a FA OR do we trade down 10 spots and pick Matthews and add maybe a late 2nd or 3rd round pick that could be a DL?

In this scenario i would go option 2 unless i was absolutely set on Star as the guy i want in round 1. If you're not completely sold on Star then seems logical to go option 2 unless you just don't like Matthews
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
But why the hell would you take a DT over a solid OT at any point in the draft? If your OL is crappy like ours is, Matthews is the player for us. And who cares if he is a RT? We already have a solid young LT and there is a gaping hole on the other side of the OL.

Give me Matthews before a DT any day of the week.


BPA


If it were my choice between the two the BPA would be Matthews.


That's fine, you're allowed to have your opinion.
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Chali21


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
But why the hell would you take a DT over a solid OT at any point in the draft? If your OL is crappy like ours is, Matthews is the player for us. And who cares if he is a RT? We already have a solid young LT and there is a gaping hole on the other side of the OL.

Give me Matthews before a DT any day of the week.


BPA


If it were my choice between the two the BPA would be Matthews.


this.
a OT can help us better than a DT right now.


Idk, we have a quality DT in the games we lost our record might be way different. Palmer has done very well with a garbage RT, the team has not done well with over the hill DTs.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
But why the hell would you take a DT over a solid OT at any point in the draft? If your OL is crappy like ours is, Matthews is the player for us. And who cares if he is a RT? We already have a solid young LT and there is a gaping hole on the other side of the OL.

Give me Matthews before a DT any day of the week.


BPA


If it were my choice between the two the BPA would be Matthews.


this.
a OT can help us better than a DT right now.


Idk, we have a quality DT in the games we lost our record might be way different. Palmer has done very well with a garbage RT, the team has not done well with over the hill DTs.


Ding, ding, ding, ding.

It's all about getting their guy. They couldn't give a blank less about what the need is as long as they get their favorite player. It's quite ridiculous. DT is much more of a need right now. Hell, our entire defensive line is a mess for the most part. A solid NT who commands a double team will do nothing but leave other linemen w/ one on ones and/or require the opposing offense to leave someone in to block. We do need line help on the offensive side but not nearly as bad as defensive line help which is apparent by the 55 points we gave up last week. No offensive linemen will help that.... but it's OK as long as people get their favorite player.

EDIT: FTR, I'm still thinking BPA and not changing my stance on that. This just escalated into a DT vs OT debate. Just wanted to make that clear. If there's a DE or LB on the board that has more value, get them. If Joeckel is out there, get him. I just want the BEST player that is on the board when we pick regardless of position.
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Nodisrespect


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
But why the hell would you take a DT over a solid OT at any point in the draft? If your OL is crappy like ours is, Matthews is the player for us. And who cares if he is a RT? We already have a solid young LT and there is a gaping hole on the other side of the OL.

Give me Matthews before a DT any day of the week.


BPA


If it were my choice between the two the BPA would be Matthews.


this.
a OT can help us better than a DT right now.


Idk, we have a quality DT in the games we lost our record might be way different. Palmer has done very well with a garbage RT, the team has not done well with over the hill DTs.


Ding, ding, ding, ding.

It's all about getting their guy. They couldn't give a blank less about what the need is as long as they get their favorite player. It's quite ridiculous. DT is much more of a need right now. Hell, our entire defensive line is a mess for the most part. A solid NT who commands a double team will do nothing but leave other linemen w/ one on ones and/or require the opposing offense to leave someone in to block. We do need line help on the offensive side but not nearly as bad as defensive line help which is apparent by the 55 points we gave up last week. No offensive linemen will help that.... but it's OK as long as people get their favorite player.

EDIT: FTR, I'm still thinking BPA and not changing my stance on that. This just escalated into a DT vs OT debate. Just wanted to make that clear. If there's a DE or LB on the board that has more value, get them. If Joeckel is out there, get him. I just want the BEST player that is on the board when we pick regardless of position.
agreed we need the most talented player can get, in any spot besides P/K.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
But why the hell would you take a DT over a solid OT at any point in the draft? If your OL is crappy like ours is, Matthews is the player for us. And who cares if he is a RT? We already have a solid young LT and there is a gaping hole on the other side of the OL.

Give me Matthews before a DT any day of the week.


BPA


If it were my choice between the two the BPA would be Matthews.


this.
a OT can help us better than a DT right now.


Idk, we have a quality DT in the games we lost our record might be way different. Palmer has done very well with a garbage RT, the team has not done well with over the hill DTs.


it not just about palmer but i think the bad rt play is a reason for our run game sucking. Idk, if the offense could stay on the field more maybe score some points we could compete better and not put so much strain on our defense which is headlined by no name players, over the hill guys, rookies and newly signed fa's.

we are 27th in the nfl in converting 3rd downs despite being 13th in # of 3rd down attempts. out of 125 3rd down attempts we've only converted 40 which is good enough to put us in a 4way tie for 22nd in the nfl.
also 13th in offensive flags.

cp doing well doesnt mean the offense is doing well. imo his stats mean nothing because his offense sucks hella bad.

we give the ball back way to early and often on offense. we are also top 5 in three and outs.

-the offense only averages 10 points/game in the first half that is hella sad.
-the defense gives up an average of 12 points/game in the first half which is pretty dam good considering the roster.

-in the 2nd half the offense only averages 11 points per game which is also hella sad
-the 2nd half defense has allowed a average of 19.5 points/game which is crazy but is understandable since the offense continues to give the ball up by not completing drives.
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NickButera


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
But why the hell would you take a DT over a solid OT at any point in the draft? If your OL is crappy like ours is, Matthews is the player for us. And who cares if he is a RT? We already have a solid young LT and there is a gaping hole on the other side of the OL.

Give me Matthews before a DT any day of the week.


BPA


If it were my choice between the two the BPA would be Matthews.


this.
a OT can help us better than a DT right now.


Idk, we have a quality DT in the games we lost our record might be way different. Palmer has done very well with a garbage RT, the team has not done well with over the hill DTs.


it not just about palmer but i think the bad rt play is a reason for our run game sucking. Idk, if the offense could stay on the field more maybe score some points we could compete better and not put so much strain on our defense which is headlined by no name players, over the hill guys, rookies and newly signed fa's.

we are 27th in the nfl in converting 3rd downs despite being 13th in # of 3rd down attempts. out of 125 3rd down attempts we've only converted 40 which is good enough to put us in a 4way tie for 22nd in the nfl.
also 13th in offensive flags.

cp doing well doesnt mean the offense is doing well. imo his stats mean nothing because his offense sucks hella bad.

we give the ball back way to early and often on offense. we are also top 5 in three and outs.

-the offense only averages 10 points/game in the first half that is hella sad.
-the defense gives up an average of 12 points/game in the first half which is pretty dam good considering the roster.

-in the 2nd half the offense only averages 11 points per game which is also hella sad
-the 2nd half defense has allowed a average of 19.5 points/game which is crazy but is understandable since the offense continues to give the ball up by not completing drives.


Great post. The first thing that came to mind with the part that I bolded... was that our offense has also scored in the final 2 minutes of every first half. Take that into account and the average score through most of the first half is under 7 points.

There's truth to the fact that you put some amount of pressure on opposing offenses that can lead to hasty mistakes when you take the early lead. We haven't really been able to do that to this point in the year. And our defense has given our offense that exact opportunity. Hopefully we can see some improvements in the 2nd half.

On another note, we're tied for the easiest schedule in football the 2nd half (according to current win-loss records). Lots of opportunity here to shine.
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NCOUGHMAN


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickButera wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
But why the hell would you take a DT over a solid OT at any point in the draft? If your OL is crappy like ours is, Matthews is the player for us. And who cares if he is a RT? We already have a solid young LT and there is a gaping hole on the other side of the OL.

Give me Matthews before a DT any day of the week.


BPA


If it were my choice between the two the BPA would be Matthews.


this.
a OT can help us better than a DT right now.


Idk, we have a quality DT in the games we lost our record might be way different. Palmer has done very well with a garbage RT, the team has not done well with over the hill DTs.


it not just about palmer but i think the bad rt play is a reason for our run game sucking. Idk, if the offense could stay on the field more maybe score some points we could compete better and not put so much strain on our defense which is headlined by no name players, over the hill guys, rookies and newly signed fa's.

we are 27th in the nfl in converting 3rd downs despite being 13th in # of 3rd down attempts. out of 125 3rd down attempts we've only converted 40 which is good enough to put us in a 4way tie for 22nd in the nfl.
also 13th in offensive flags.

cp doing well doesnt mean the offense is doing well. imo his stats mean nothing because his offense sucks hella bad.

we give the ball back way to early and often on offense. we are also top 5 in three and outs.

-the offense only averages 10 points/game in the first half that is hella sad.
-the defense gives up an average of 12 points/game in the first half which is pretty dam good considering the roster.

-in the 2nd half the offense only averages 11 points per game which is also hella sad
-the 2nd half defense has allowed a average of 19.5 points/game which is crazy but is understandable since the offense continues to give the ball up by not completing drives.


Great post. The first thing that came to mind with the part that I bolded... was that our offense has also scored in the final 2 minutes of every first half. Take that into account and the average score through most of the first half is under 7 points.

There's truth to the fact that you put some amount of pressure on opposing offenses that can lead to hasty mistakes when you take the early lead. We haven't really been able to do that to this point in the year. And our defense has given our offense that exact opportunity. Hopefully we can see some improvements in the 2nd half.


On another note, we're tied for the easiest schedule in football the 2nd half (according to current win-loss records). Lots of opportunity here to shine.


this.
the defense has played well for the most part but loses gas/momentum/motivation in the 2nd half. the defense has set the offense up with many chances to put up points and get a early lead but we dont. the defense has held teams to 10 points or less in the first half in 6 out of the 9 games we've played. balt, pitt and jax are the only teams to post more than 10 first half points on our defense. its easy to blame the defense but people forget they try to set us up to build leads in the first half
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top 15 is too high for a RT. period. Iirc, it MAY have happened twice (where the player was drafted specifically to play RT) and probably to same bad organization, and that's not counting Tryon Smith who was drafted to be the eventually successor at LT. That is a fundamental flaw making it highly unlikely to come to fruition.

In addition, while technically sound Matthews is on the smallish side. Keep in mind the NFL draft is also about upside. It's laughable to suggest Matthews will be drafted over Lewan who is very long. If the Raiders both drafted a SMALL RT in the Top 15 AND left Lewan on the board words could not describe how I would lose it.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Top 15 is too high for a RT. period. Iirc, it MAY have happened twice (where the player was drafted specifically to play RT) and probably to same bad organization, and that's not counting Tryon Smith who was drafted to be the eventually successor at LT. That is a fundamental flaw making it highly unlikely to come to fruition.

In addition, while technically sound Matthews is on the smallish side. Keep in mind the NFL draft is also about upside. It's laughable to suggest Matthews will be drafted over Lewan who is very long. If the Raiders both drafted a SMALL RT in the Top 15 AND left Lewan on the board words could not describe how I would lose it.


It doesn't matter when it comes to logic as long as they get their guy!!!1!!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Top 15 is too high for a RT. period. Iirc, it MAY have happened twice (where the player was drafted specifically to play RT) and probably to same bad organization, and that's not counting Tryon Smith who was drafted to be the eventually successor at LT. That is a fundamental flaw making it highly unlikely to come to fruition.

In addition, while technically sound Matthews is on the smallish side. Keep in mind the NFL draft is also about upside. It's laughable to suggest Matthews will be drafted over Lewan who is very long. If the Raiders both drafted a SMALL RT in the Top 15 AND left Lewan on the board words could not describe how I would lose it.


Welcome to my mock Very Happy ive been waiting to get your opinion on my picks....

Just curious why is Taylor better at Ot than Jake? length? fundamentals? what? or is it stricly a LT vrs RT thing.

ps: I watched mich play today (btw that TE in you mock from iowa looks legit) and i saw taylor struggle at times vrs stunts and blitzes.
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