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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Do some research and you'll find Willis runs a 4.51 40 and Teo runs a 4.54. Willis is so much faster and athletic. Give me a break.


I stand by what I said.... even though I was well aware of this info prior even though you're being VERY generous w/ Teo's time. Even though I bet your line about Willis being much faster and athletic is meant to be facetious, it's actually the truth.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
What do you guys think of Bjorn Werner??

I've only seen him on some highlight clips and the opposition didn't look great but he looks to have a great motor, good initial acceleration off the snap and solid tackler. We could maybe do with a bit of Teutonic efficiency


Werner is one of the few I'm pretty high on in this draft. I don't think this class is extremely strong..... FWIW
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
What do you guys think of Bjorn Werner??

I've only seen him on some highlight clips and the opposition didn't look great but he looks to have a great motor, good initial acceleration off the snap and solid tackler. We could maybe do with a bit of Teutonic efficiency


I really like Werner. He reminds me of Tamba Hali. I don't know if he'll be the best pass rusher right away though, and that's what this team needs most.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
What do you guys think of Bjorn Werner??

I've only seen him on some highlight clips and the opposition didn't look great but he looks to have a great motor, good initial acceleration off the snap and solid tackler. We could maybe do with a bit of Teutonic efficiency


I really like Werner. He reminds me of Tamba Hali. I don't know if he'll be the best pass rusher right away though, and that's what this team needs most.


With all due respect, Hali outweighs Werner by nearly 20lbs yet athletic enough to play standing up (I don't recall ever seeing Werner standing but I could be wrong). Hali has tremendous athleticism for a man his size. I project Werner beginning his career as a situational pass rusher and topping out reminiscent of TENN DE Kyle Vanden Bosch if he's able to hold an additional 20lbs. I was heatedly criticized for making the obviously stereo-typical comparison but KVB is a phenomenal athlete in his own right just not on Hali's level. Some NFL team will be very pleased with what I believe will be workman-like consistent stats from year to year from Werner. However, imo he isn't worthy of a Top 5 pick. This is a shallow but very wide pool of edge rushers in terms of quality. Desperate for an edge rusher the Raider's FO as well as RaiderNation will be tempted to reach on one the MANY intriguing but flawed edge rushers in the 2013 draft.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
What do you guys think of Bjorn Werner??

I've only seen him on some highlight clips and the opposition didn't look great but he looks to have a great motor, good initial acceleration off the snap and solid tackler. We could maybe do with a bit of Teutonic efficiency


I really like Werner. He reminds me of Tamba Hali. I don't know if he'll be the best pass rusher right away though, and that's what this team needs most.


With all due respect, Hali outweighs Werner by nearly 20lbs yet athletic enough to play standing up (I don't recall ever seeing Werner standing but I could be wrong). Hali has tremendous athleticism for a man his size. I project Werner beginning his career as a situational pass rusher and topping out reminiscent of TENN DE Kyle Vanden Bosch if he's able to hold an additional 20lbs. I was heatedly criticized for making the obviously stereo-typical comparison but KVB is a phenomenal athlete in his own right just not on Hali's level. Some NFL team will be very pleased with what I believe will be workman-like consistent stats from year to year from Werner. However, imo he isn't worthy of a Top 5 pick. This is a shallow but very wide pool of edge rushers in terms of quality. Desperate for an edge rusher the Raider's FO as well as RaiderNation will be tempted to reach on one the MANY intriguing but flawed edge rushers in the 2013 draft.


agree.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
What do you guys think of Bjorn Werner??

I've only seen him on some highlight clips and the opposition didn't look great but he looks to have a great motor, good initial acceleration off the snap and solid tackler. We could maybe do with a bit of Teutonic efficiency


I really like Werner. He reminds me of Tamba Hali. I don't know if he'll be the best pass rusher right away though, and that's what this team needs most.


With all due respect, Hali outweighs Werner by nearly 20lbs yet athletic enough to play standing up (I don't recall ever seeing Werner standing but I could be wrong). Hali has tremendous athleticism for a man his size. I project Werner beginning his career as a situational pass rusher and topping out reminiscent of TENN DE Kyle Vanden Bosch if he's able to hold an additional 20lbs. I was heatedly criticized for making the obviously stereo-typical comparison but KVB is a phenomenal athlete in his own right just not on Hali's level. Some NFL team will be very pleased with what I believe will be workman-like consistent stats from year to year from Werner. However, imo he isn't worthy of a Top 5 pick. This is a shallow but very wide pool of edge rushers in terms of quality. Desperate for an edge rusher the Raider's FO as well as RaiderNation will be tempted to reach on one the MANY intriguing but flawed edge rushers in the 2013 draft.


You take unofficial college weight listings way too seriously. Werners big enough already and will only get bigger. In regards to Hali, he wasn't noticeably bigger or faster coming out of PSU, nor did he play with his hands up until after a few years with the Chiefs. You're looking at what he is now in hindsight when he was a "flawed" prospect too, evident by going 20th in the draft and not finding huge success rushing the passer until he changed schemes.

And who said to take Werner in the top 5?
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
What do you guys think of Bjorn Werner??

I've only seen him on some highlight clips and the opposition didn't look great but he looks to have a great motor, good initial acceleration off the snap and solid tackler. We could maybe do with a bit of Teutonic efficiency


I really like Werner. He reminds me of Tamba Hali. I don't know if he'll be the best pass rusher right away though, and that's what this team needs most.


With all due respect, Hali outweighs Werner by nearly 20lbs yet athletic enough to play standing up (I don't recall ever seeing Werner standing but I could be wrong). Hali has tremendous athleticism for a man his size. I project Werner beginning his career as a situational pass rusher and topping out reminiscent of TENN DE Kyle Vanden Bosch if he's able to hold an additional 20lbs. I was heatedly criticized for making the obviously stereo-typical comparison but KVB is a phenomenal athlete in his own right just not on Hali's level. Some NFL team will be very pleased with what I believe will be workman-like consistent stats from year to year from Werner. However, imo he isn't worthy of a Top 5 pick. This is a shallow but very wide pool of edge rushers in terms of quality. Desperate for an edge rusher the Raider's FO as well as RaiderNation will be tempted to reach on one the MANY intriguing but flawed edge rushers in the 2013 draft.


You take unofficial college weight listings way too seriously. Werners big enough already and will only get bigger. In regards to Hali, he wasn't noticeably bigger or faster coming out of PSU, nor did he play with his hands up until after a few years with the Chiefs. You're looking at what he is now in hindsight when he was a "flawed" prospect too, evident by going 20th in the draft and not finding huge success rushing the passer until he changed schemes.

And who said to take Werner in the top 5?


At times it seems you are more interested in winning debates than having an actual conversation. I hope that isn't on of those unfortunate occassions.

I appreciate truthiness. I'd like to know what you are using as a source of information on Werner's stature? Ye ole' eyeball test? Is this just another case of the liberal media putting out misinformation on Florida State's Athletic Department website or are you a certified "Guess Your Weight" traveling carney?

Werner very well could be the next Hali. My evaluation is based on the information we currently have and I would guess most would agree that Werner is more similar to KVB (who plays with his hand in the dirt) right now than Hali.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
What do you guys think of Bjorn Werner??

I've only seen him on some highlight clips and the opposition didn't look great but he looks to have a great motor, good initial acceleration off the snap and solid tackler. We could maybe do with a bit of Teutonic efficiency


I really like Werner. He reminds me of Tamba Hali. I don't know if he'll be the best pass rusher right away though, and that's what this team needs most.


With all due respect, Hali outweighs Werner by nearly 20lbs yet athletic enough to play standing up (I don't recall ever seeing Werner standing but I could be wrong). Hali has tremendous athleticism for a man his size. I project Werner beginning his career as a situational pass rusher and topping out reminiscent of TENN DE Kyle Vanden Bosch if he's able to hold an additional 20lbs. I was heatedly criticized for making the obviously stereo-typical comparison but KVB is a phenomenal athlete in his own right just not on Hali's level. Some NFL team will be very pleased with what I believe will be workman-like consistent stats from year to year from Werner. However, imo he isn't worthy of a Top 5 pick. This is a shallow but very wide pool of edge rushers in terms of quality. Desperate for an edge rusher the Raider's FO as well as RaiderNation will be tempted to reach on one the MANY intriguing but flawed edge rushers in the 2013 draft.


You take unofficial college weight listings way too seriously. Werners big enough already and will only get bigger. In regards to Hali, he wasn't noticeably bigger or faster coming out of PSU, nor did he play with his hands up until after a few years with the Chiefs. You're looking at what he is now in hindsight when he was a "flawed" prospect too, evident by going 20th in the draft and not finding huge success rushing the passer until he changed schemes.

And who said to take Werner in the top 5?


At times it seems you are more interested in winning debates than having an actual conversation. I hope that isn't on of those unfortunate occassions.

I appreciate truthiness. I'd like to know what you are using as a source of information on Werner's stature? Ye ole' eyeball test? Is this just another case of the liberal media putting out misinformation on Florida State's Athletic Department website or are you a certified "Guess Your Weight" traveling carney?

Werner very well could be the next Hali. My evaluation is based on the information we currently have and I would guess most would agree that Werner is more similar to KVB (who plays with his hand in the dirt) right now than Hali.


Touche.

I don't care what Werner's exact stature is when he's big enough. I care about how he plays. You get too hung up on weight when judging players. Why should the difference in weight between Werner and Hali stop me from comparing the two? Werner's plays stronger then Hali did at PSU, despite what difference they may have in weight.

When you say the edge rushers in this years draft are flawed, it doesn't do a whole lot for your argument considering Hali went in his draft around where I think Werner will go in this years. Hali never played with his hands up at PSU, or for his first 3 years with the Chiefs, so there's plenty for me to compare between the two.
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ODB44


Joined: 02 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all the players we lost in the offseason, do we have any compensatory picks coming our way, I know it wouldn't be really high one(s) but the since we're rebuilding, the more picks the better.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ODB44 wrote:
With all the players we lost in the offseason, do we have any compensatory picks coming our way, I know it wouldn't be really high one(s) but the since we're rebuilding, the more picks the better.


This is a good question and I also would like to know. Solid first post, and welcome!
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Darkness


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
ODB44 wrote:
With all the players we lost in the offseason, do we have any compensatory picks coming our way, I know it wouldn't be really high one(s) but the since we're rebuilding, the more picks the better.


This is a good question and I also would like to know. Solid first post, and welcome!


I think you only get awarded comp picks when players that you drafted leave your team in FA. And depending on who you sign in the FA, it could cancel out. Routt might have gotten us one if we didn't sign other FA's, so I wouldn't expect any.
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Rolni


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you don't get comp picks after guys you cut...
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
you don't get comp picks after guys you cut...

Yup.

Expect nothing for Routt or any other cuts. Pretty sure that includes Wimbley. Maybe JCam and Bush could get us something but they don't play that much and aren't that good plus we signed Wheeler and play him a lot.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Do some research and you'll find Willis runs a 4.51 40 and Teo runs a 4.54. Willis is so much faster and athletic. Give me a break.


Just out of interest, I read a piece by Pat Kirwan recently written about his time as a Jets scout. He stated that to try and judge acurately the speed on field in uniform of an NFL player they would take the 40 time and compare with the short shuttle sprint times of college players, basically if the shuttle was a lot faster than the sprint the guy would most probably have 'football speed' and if the 40 time was little different from the shuttle time the guy would most probably have 'track speed'.

Can't find the link for it but basically, don't judge a players speed and athletic prowess off purely a 40 time Wink
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BigMike1b


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regards to possible compensatory picks, the only free agents that we had that signed elsewhere was Michael Bush and Jason Campbell. Bush had a multi-year deal and Campbell just a 1-year deal. Bush would net us a pick, unfortunately, we signed Mike Breisel to a more expensive deal so that should cancel that out. I'm pretty sure we won't land a pick for losing Campbell either since we signed multiple players to 1-year deals as well.
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