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OILCHIEFS


Joined: 02 Feb 2011
Posts: 1471
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a fan of Belcher.

He's a solid unspectacular player. I think Nicfre said it best with only upgrading him if the opportunity presents itself. He doesn't need to be upgraded. He does what asked of him by being the thumper and making plays in run defense. While he is a liability in pass defense, that's not his primary job.

I think ILB is a secondary need. If you weigh each position and for which position an upgrade with raise the overall play of the Chiefs, ILB isn't up there.

Bigs' contract seems like fair market value. I would rather have someone we know can do the job waiting in the wings.
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kylecumberland


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
kylecumberland wrote:
I think he is an average- good run stuffer. He is SUCH a liability in coverage though. Every game I see teams pick on us in the middle of the field and Belcher is the reason for that. I consider ILB a major weakness, along with QB and CB. Those are the 3 spots we MUST upgrade. I am willing to give Jeff Allen another year or even bring Ryan Lilja back for another year. I am also willing to start someone like Shaun Smith or Pituatioa at DE to fill the hole Dorsey leaves. I don't think they are much of a drop off from Dorsey and they can be solid 1 year stop gaps. But we must get a QB, ILB and CB IMO.


I agree with you kyle on you assessment of Belcher. He is pretty limited and because of that I do think we need to address the position long term. Personally, I am looking for a player that projects to fill a Daryl Washington-type of role - meaning he has very good to excellent range and is not a liability in coverage. Also, Belcher doesn't provide much in the way of a blitz presence, and I would really like to have someone on the roster that alteast gives us the option of sending someone from the inside to get pressure.


Yeah. I would love to have a Daryl Washington type player. I think we should try to draft a quality ILB at the top of the 2nd round, and then address corner through a solid veteran VIA free agency. along with a young corner at the top of the 3rd round.
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Ring of Fame


Joined: 02 Feb 2009
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Location: Lawrence, KS via KCMO
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
I do not want to let him walk, because that's just unnecessary. Offer him a deal for like 3yrs, $1.5MM guaranteed, and maybe $5MM overall. That will be palatable if he becomes a back-up, but appropriate considering his contributions should he continue to start.


Agree, no point in letting him walk. He's worth more here than he is on the open market. He's a special teams player on a good team and I think he's comfortable here in KC.

I personally think he's a liability in the middle of the defense and a spot we need to upgrade athletically. Keep him here knowing he's probably a rotational guy/special teamer. Great guy in that role.


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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ring of Fame wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
I do not want to let him walk, because that's just unnecessary. Offer him a deal for like 3yrs, $1.5MM guaranteed, and maybe $5MM overall. That will be palatable if he becomes a back-up, but appropriate considering his contributions should he continue to start.


Agree, no point in letting him walk. He's worth more here than he is on the open market. He's a special teams player on a good team and I think he's comfortable here in KC.

I personally think he's a liability in the middle of the defense and a spot we need to upgrade athletically. Keep him here knowing he's probably a rotational guy/special teamer. Great guy in that role.


`


But aren't those types of players the ones you cycle into the roster through the draft and cost effective free agency (ex. Edgar Jones and Brandon Siler)? I mean, we brought in Edgar Jones and I think he has done an excellent job on special teams and if he is re-signed will likely be much more cost effective than Belcher if he is re-signed as well (Jones was signed for 1 year @ $700,000 while Belcher played under the tender offer of close to $2,000,000).
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kylecumberland


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Mel Kiper was just on ESPN and said we should take Manti Teo # 1 overall. I couldn't disagree more. I remember back in 2008 everyone said there was elite quarterbacks in that draft, and That Glenn Dorsey, was the best player in the draft, followed by Jake Long, and Darren Mcfadden. Matt Ryan was considered the best QB in a weak class that wasn't worth the number 1 overall pick....Well 4 years later.... What have Dorsey, Long and Mcfadden won? their team's results have not been stellar to say the least. Matt Barkley reminds me a lot of Matt Ryan in 2008. Everyone was down on ryan, and everyone in the top 5 was hoping their team stayed away from him. Barkley may not be having as good of a year as last year, but I could see him being a Matt Ryan type of QB in the NFL. I think the pick has to be QB. Barkley has TONS of experience. the only 4 year starter in USC history which is saying something. Already owns every passing record in their history. 4 years playing in a pro style offense. I think he will be a good NFL QB.

I another thing I would be cool with is trading the # 1 pick and moving down to like # 6. we could get 2 or 3 first rounders like the rams did for RG3. Then we could move back up into the first round to get Tyler Wilson. Then we would walk out of the draft with Manti Teo and Tyler Wilson.

Thoughts?
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valkrei


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Belcher needs to go. He has not been the weakest link on the team but he is a weak link.
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jimmydee


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a limb here and probably sawing it off myself, but I'd predict that Barkley will be a better NFL QB than he is in college, given time to develop and play. And yes, we need some serious help at ILB. Someone who can pop AND cover. Teo would be awesome.

Keep Belcher for transition and ST for a year or so till we get deeper in talent. My .02.
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kylecumberland wrote:
Wow. Mel Kiper was just on ESPN and said we should take Manti Teo # 1 overall. I couldn't disagree more. I remember back in 2008 everyone said there was elite quarterbacks in that draft, and That Glenn Dorsey, was the best player in the draft, followed by Jake Long, and Darren Mcfadden. Matt Ryan was considered the best QB in a weak class that wasn't worth the number 1 overall pick....Well 4 years later.... What have Dorsey, Long and Mcfadden won? their team's results have not been stellar to say the least. Matt Barkley reminds me a lot of Matt Ryan in 2008. Everyone was down on ryan, and everyone in the top 5 was hoping their team stayed away from him. Barkley may not be having as good of a year as last year, but I could see him being a Matt Ryan type of QB in the NFL. I think the pick has to be QB. Barkley has TONS of experience. the only 4 year starter in USC history which is saying something. Already owns every passing record in their history. 4 years playing in a pro style offense. I think he will be a good NFL QB.

I another thing I would be cool with is trading the # 1 pick and moving down to like # 6. we could get 2 or 3 first rounders like the rams did for RG3. Then we could move back up into the first round to get Tyler Wilson. Then we would walk out of the draft with Manti Teo and Tyler Wilson.

Thoughts?


I must admit that if we added Te'o to our D and Poe develops like many of us think we will, our D will be impossible to score on.
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Arrowhead86


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it was Teo, humor me here... would you all be fine with someone the Glennon at the top of round 2?
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrowhead86 wrote:
If it was Teo, humor me here... would you all be fine with someone the Glennon at the top of round 2?


A MLB with the #1 overall pick? That would be absolutely insane. Now if we traded down multiple tomes and ended up high teens, ok. I would prefer E.J. Manuel over Glennon.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrowhead86 wrote:
If it was Teo, humor me here... would you all be fine with someone the Glennon at the top of round 2?

Far from fine. Maybe Glennon is BA, but the idea that we are going to half-butt the QB position at all would infuriate me. The ONLY way I'd tolerate that is if the entire FO is blown up, evaluates Stanzi, and says he's worth a shot. Basically a similar situation to the 49ers when Harbaugh got there, endorsed Smith but drafted Kaepernick.

Personally I'd rather not take Teo #1 overall though. That's an investment waiting to not pay out fully ala Tyson. How many ILB's drafted in the top 10 have become anything close to worth their investment? Willis and Lewis is all I can think of.

Trade back to say #5-6, get us another 1st next year and then trade that to get back into the mid 2nd and snag Wilson. Much better idea IMO, but still awfully risky that we miss our guy.
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Arrowhead86


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
If it was Teo, humor me here... would you all be fine with someone the Glennon at the top of round 2?

Far from fine. Maybe Glennon is BA, but the idea that we are going to half-butt the QB position at all would infuriate me. The ONLY way I'd tolerate that is if the entire FO is blown up, evaluates Stanzi, and says he's worth a shot. Basically a similar situation to the 49ers when Harbaugh got there, endorsed Smith but drafted Kaepernick.

Personally I'd rather not take Teo #1 overall though. That's an investment waiting to not pay out fully ala Tyson. How many ILB's drafted in the top 10 have become anything close to worth their investment? Willis and Lewis is all I can think of.

Trade back to say #5-6, get us another 1st next year and then trade that to get back into the mid 2nd and snag Wilson. Much better idea IMO, but still awfully risky that we miss our guy.


Overall I agree. I am all in on a QB in the first and really cannot fathom Kiper's idea.. but for discussion I went with it.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiper said no QB is even a top 10 prospect at this point...he's got Barkley and Geno at about 15 and Logan Thomas 29th. I thot he did his homework, what on earth could he have against Tyler Wilson?
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
Kiper said no QB is even a top 10 prospect at this point...he's got Barkley and Geno at about 15 and Logan Thomas 29th. I thot he did his homework, what on earth could he have against Tyler Wilson?

I've heard him say Wilson was the 3rd guy, and a mid-1st. Maybe he just skipped him to mention Thomas still being a 1st round candidate late?
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valkrei


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give me any of the top 3 QB's and I believe its an upgrade and at least gives the fans some hope for the future. With that being said yes we can trade down aquire more picks and still get a great QB even though I would not trade out of the top 10 to be cautious.

Or you could draft this guy #1 then give up some of the farm to trade back into the top 10-15 and get a QB if one is still there. If you go this route you cannot fail on getting a QB or the draft becomes a disaster.
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