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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 37197
Location: Three time Mr. fanTASTic!
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 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Green90 wrote: | | EliteTexan80 wrote: | | Green90 wrote: | | EliteTexan80 wrote: | | [UMN] wrote: | as someone with degrees in both aerospace engineering and astrophysics, this is the funniest thread I have seen in a while. some of the replies here are priceless.
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Oh yeah? Well, I had a fling with an Ansari a few weeks back on Thessia. Would be going back, but I heard the Reapers really did a number to that planet.
(For those of you who don't get my references in this thread - do me a solid, get yourself a copy of Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, play 'em both a lot, and thank me later). |
You know ET, for as many Mass Effect plugs as you give I'd think you be able to spell Asari right. Or did she screw with your mind... if you know what I mean *wink wink nudge nudge*. |
Yeah, I romanced her, so she screwed with my mind. Also, I have fat fingers. I'm a clumsy typer. 
| Quote: | | And not the first ME? |
Only have the PS3 version, so I won't get the 1st one until the trilogy is released early next month. You better bet yoour boy ET is ON that.  |
Oh good, I was just hoping you didn't mean Aziz Ansari:
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...and now, THAT is stuck in my head.
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fretgod99
Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 17823
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| milanb wrote: | | fretgod99 wrote: | That's fair, but I don't think it's actually disputing [UMN] on that point. Unless we actually develop the technology to travel FTL or come up with some equally impressive developments in propulsion, than it's impossible to be able to muster meaningful and useful interplanetary travel, let alone interstellar travel.
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I'm not disputing it, just disagreeing with it.
I believe that developing a propulsion system that can accelerate itself and its payload at 1g for ~10 years is still very much in the realm of science fiction, but it is not nearly as far removed from the realm of possibility as e.g. FTL or wormhole travel. |
It seems you and I generally agree, then. 
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| MrDrew wrote: | | Can somebody give me a good reason there's not a giant statue to fret somewhere? |
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fretgod99
Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 17823
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | I understand the issue with the differences in "calculated" age where one baby would be 1 year old and the other 6 years old or whatever. But biologically, I guess I wouldn't expect the body to slow it's aging process by the same value. That is, from the viewpoint of somebody on Earth, one twin living 80 years and the other living 240 years (6x as long) simply because they are traveling at a higher speed.
Not sure if I'm explaining my difficulty understanding very clearly: For instance, again let's use the example from your article: They mention the traveling twin would be 6 years old, the stay at home twin being 10 years old. Biologically, would they be at the same point? Let's say we let this occur for 10x as long -- a 60 year old traveling twin and an 80 year old Earth twin -- are their bodies at the same biological point? Ie, close to the end of their lives? |
Biologically no, they are different ages. That's the mind[screw] of Relativity.
The difficulty is that we are used to thinking that there is some standard measure of time, and that it's uniform for everybody everywhere. So, the twin on Earth and the twin traveling in space, even though they "experience" time differently, are still beholden to this mythical "objective" clock, which runs inerrantly, no matter what happens. But that's the mistake: there is no "standard, objective" measure of time.
So, while the traveling twin would be 10 "Earth" years older, he's only actually experienced 6 six years of time, as it passes in his frame of reference. He doesn't "experience" time more slowly; it actually passes more slowly (from the perspective of the Earth twin - from his perspective, it passes at the same rate that the twin on Earth experiences time passing on Earth).
The traveling twin looks, acts, and in every way is a six-year old child. The Earth twin looks, acts, and in every way is a ten-year old child.
Hopefully that at least helps. It's not an easy thing to wrap one's head around.
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| MrDrew wrote: | | Can somebody give me a good reason there's not a giant statue to fret somewhere? |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 16550
Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| fretgod99 wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | I understand the issue with the differences in "calculated" age where one baby would be 1 year old and the other 6 years old or whatever. But biologically, I guess I wouldn't expect the body to slow it's aging process by the same value. That is, from the viewpoint of somebody on Earth, one twin living 80 years and the other living 240 years (6x as long) simply because they are traveling at a higher speed.
Not sure if I'm explaining my difficulty understanding very clearly: For instance, again let's use the example from your article: They mention the traveling twin would be 6 years old, the stay at home twin being 10 years old. Biologically, would they be at the same point? Let's say we let this occur for 10x as long -- a 60 year old traveling twin and an 80 year old Earth twin -- are their bodies at the same biological point? Ie, close to the end of their lives? |
Biologically no, they are different ages. That's the mind[screw] of Relativity.
The difficulty is that we are used to thinking that there is some standard measure of time, and that it's uniform for everybody everywhere. So, the twin on Earth and the twin traveling in space, even though they "experience" time differently, are still beholden to this mythical "objective" clock, which runs inerrantly, no matter what happens. But that's the mistake: there is no "standard, objective" measure of time.
So, while the traveling twin would be 10 "Earth" years older, he's only actually experienced 6 six years of time, as it passes in his frame of reference. He doesn't "experience" time more slowly; it actually passes more slowly (from the perspective of the Earth twin - from his perspective, it passes at the same rate that the twin on Earth experiences time passing on Earth).
The traveling twin looks, acts, and in every way is a six-year old child. The Earth twin looks, acts, and in every way is a ten-year old child.
Hopefully that at least helps. It's not an easy thing to wrap one's head around. |
Got ya, yeah that's what I was taking from it, but I didn't know the body based it's aging off of how the time feels to it -- I thought, like you mention, that it was an "independent" clock that no matter what the frame of reference was, the body was going to age the same -- so even though the traveling twin only experienced 6 years, their body would age the same regardless and therefore be at the same point as a 10 year old Earth baby.
Pretty cool stuff.
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Green90
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 652
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| EliteTexan80 wrote: | | Green90 wrote: | | EliteTexan80 wrote: | | Green90 wrote: | | EliteTexan80 wrote: | | [UMN] wrote: | as someone with degrees in both aerospace engineering and astrophysics, this is the funniest thread I have seen in a while. some of the replies here are priceless.
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Oh yeah? Well, I had a fling with an Ansari a few weeks back on Thessia. Would be going back, but I heard the Reapers really did a number to that planet.
(For those of you who don't get my references in this thread - do me a solid, get yourself a copy of Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, play 'em both a lot, and thank me later). |
You know ET, for as many Mass Effect plugs as you give I'd think you be able to spell Asari right. Or did she screw with your mind... if you know what I mean *wink wink nudge nudge*. |
Yeah, I romanced her, so she screwed with my mind. Also, I have fat fingers. I'm a clumsy typer.
| Quote: | | And not the first ME? |
Only have the PS3 version, so I won't get the 1st one until the trilogy is released early next month. You better bet yoour boy ET is ON that. |
Oh good, I was just hoping you didn't mean Aziz Ansari:
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...and now, THAT is stuck in my head. |
Don't worry, we wont make any more fun of you in TAPT than we already do.
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49ersfan
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 4612
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Also curious: how long until civilians are able to go space? In the near future, will the general population be able to pay money for tickets for a trip into earth orbit (and maybe beyond)? And if it were available, would anyone here be willing to go (assuming the price is reasonable for an average western world worker).
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K-4
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 4753
Location: La crosse, Wi
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 49ersfan wrote: | | Also curious: how long until civilians are able to go space? In the near future, will the general population be able to pay money for tickets for a trip into earth orbit (and maybe beyond)? And if it were available, would anyone here be willing to go (assuming the price is reasonable for an average western world worker). |
You can get pretty close right now...
http://www.virgingalactic.com/
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| Quote: | I'm mowed some grass today. I'll admit, I did it for the media attention.
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Troy Brown
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 19655
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: |
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In my tenth grade astronomy class, my teacher said we'd be in the process of colonizing the moon by 2030. I have no reason not to believe her.
She was also pregnant so I don't know if that was screwing with her but according to her, moon colony.
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