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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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Location: Ottawa
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 Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| YlionsY wrote: | | Trade him to the Rams for all their draft picks, Chris Long, Finnegan, and Bradford. |
LOL, I would do that in a heartbeat. To bad the Rams would simply chuckle and hang up.
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38andy38
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| diehardlionfan wrote: | | YlionsY wrote: | | Trade him to the Rams for all their draft picks, Chris Long, Finnegan, and Bradford. |
LOL, I would do that in a heartbeat. To bad the Rams would simply chuckle and hang up. |
Yuck, sorry but Bradford wouldn't be any better, Long & Finnegan I'd take in a heartbeat. Trade Suh for them in a flash.
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RyanFuller003
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 20120
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| diehardlionfan wrote: | | RyanFuller003 wrote: | | LionsFan630 wrote: | I don't know how many times I heard John Lynch say coverage sack today. Playcalling doesn't really matter when guys can't get open.
When guys are open either the OL doesn't protect well enough, there's a penalty, drop, or Stafford is inaccurate.
It's not just one thing with this team, it's a multitude of issues on offense. |
That was mostly how I felt throughout the game today. Guys weren't getting open and Stafford had nowhere to go with the ball, and they couldn't run effectively. I've been critical of Stafford for much of the year, but I don't think he was a big problem yesterday. in fact he's been mostly very good over the last three games and he's completed over 67% of his passes over that span.
He was only sacked twice yesterday, but he had to throw a lot of balls away or just run for 2 yards on 3rd and 10. The Vikings' secondary was doing work.
We also had that little problem of letting Adrian Peterson run for 80 yards on two plays for the Vikings' game-sealing drive, so obviously you're going to have a tough time closing out a game when you give up scores that easily. Ponder was throwing the ball at will without his top target in the game, and he's been terrible over the last four weeks. I don't know how that becomes Stafford's problem. |
Stafford continues to be night and day between halves. His early game inconsistencies slow the team.
He isn't THE problem but is certainly part of the problem.
Where is anyone suggesting he's responsible for closing out games when the defence is yielding big yardage?
The reality is this offence can't accomplish anything in the first half. Yesterday was a prime example of this. Fault doesn't sit entirely with Stafford but he most certainly shares in the blame. |
Don't get me wrong, I have a hard time believing Stafford can't at least find somewhere to put the ball on those plays that break down, but I didn't really have any problems with his accuracy yesterday. Maybe his decision-making when it came to throwing 2 yard checkdowns on 3rd-and-10, but I think Stafford was one of the actual positives yesterday. Other than CJ, our receivers and TEs played like garbage (Titus Young made one nice catch, that's about all). The line couldn't get a push in the run game and Stafford got flushed from the pocket a few too many times. Then there's the defense lettering Ponder march up and down the field, and finally letting Peterson break two huge runs with about five minutes left that broke our back.
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Jrugges
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 9011
Location: White Lake, Mi.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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It's a few things imo.
Bad play first off. No Rhythem and often times overthrows.
Bad interior O-line. Pressure up the middle causes him to flush out quite a bit, Not good since he's very bad at throwing on the run and isn't a very athletic QB anyways.
Bad offensive game planning. Scott Linehan sucks at in game play calling. Never makes "in-game" adjustments. Stuborn. An imo, you force your will on the other team and try to break them. You don't take what the defense gives you in order to open up Calvin Johnson????  The other fricken teams want other players than Calvin Johnson to get the ball. Would be nice if Broyles/Young could become legitimate game-breaker type threats, but I got a feeling they are just average. Jahvid Best gave this offense imo, what they lack right now, another legitimate scoring threat anytime he touches the ball. |
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IDOG_det
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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Location: Ron Paul 2012 #JDI
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| YlionsY wrote: | | Trade him to the Rams for all their draft picks, Chris Long, Finnegan, and Bradford. |
Nice avy
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YlionsY
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| IDOG_det wrote: | | YlionsY wrote: | | Trade him to the Rams for all their draft picks, Chris Long, Finnegan, and Bradford. |
Nice avy |
Thanks! |
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DetroitWhat
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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For me the answer is simple. We aren't aggressive until we are behind. By then its too late. Linehan seems like hes playing not to lose it in the first half and in the 2nd half he calls plays like its life or death.
If we took a life or death approach in the first half with the talent we have then we would be much better. We would have more turnovers but more overall offensive production. Funny thing is our offense is still like top 3-4 for yards per game even with our slow starts. |
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Nnivolcm
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
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Location: Montana
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| DetroitWhat wrote: | For me the answer is simple. We aren't aggressive until we are behind. By then its too late. Linehan seems like hes playing not to lose it in the first half and in the 2nd half he calls plays like its life or death.
If we took a life or death approach in the first half with the talent we have then we would be much better. We would have more turnovers but more overall offensive production. Funny thing is our offense is still like top 3-4 for yards per game even with our slow starts. |
Linehan is calling plays that send targets deep, Stafford has just turned into captain check down for the first three quarters, and he is even struggling to complete those.
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Jrugges
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Location: White Lake, Mi.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Nnivolcm wrote: | | DetroitWhat wrote: | For me the answer is simple. We aren't aggressive until we are behind. By then its too late. Linehan seems like hes playing not to lose it in the first half and in the 2nd half he calls plays like its life or death.
If we took a life or death approach in the first half with the talent we have then we would be much better. We would have more turnovers but more overall offensive production. Funny thing is our offense is still like top 3-4 for yards per game even with our slow starts. |
Linehan is calling plays that send targets deep, Stafford has just turned into captain check down for the first three quarters, and he is even struggling to complete those. |
I'm not understanding your stances... Your really trying to convince us that the play calling is the same from first to 2nd half, cause it's clearly not, and the amount of times we run vs pass definately suggest that from 1st half to 2nd halfs.
Not to mention theres a difference between sending Calvin Johnson deep and sending "little wigs" like Young/Broyles who haven't really shown they can beat there guys 1on1 unless Stafford makes a great throw. It's not just about going deep though. It's about getting your best players the ball and Calvin Johnson does not make plays early on for some reason, and that falls on the coaching staff imo to design plays/ game plans to make him open.
This season to me Tony Scheffler has clearly been the better recieving TE getting more space and hanging onto the ball better but still gets less playing time and seems like less targets. The staff aren't making adjustments. Burlesson was clearly ineffective before his injury and they still trotted him out. Logan even, as a returner, is clearly ineffective yet they trot him out. I understand it's hard to "fix" things in season but shouldn't there be SOMEONE somewhere in the organization ready to even "try" to step up to the plate? |
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Jrugges wrote: | | Nnivolcm wrote: | | DetroitWhat wrote: | For me the answer is simple. We aren't aggressive until we are behind. By then its too late. Linehan seems like hes playing not to lose it in the first half and in the 2nd half he calls plays like its life or death.
If we took a life or death approach in the first half with the talent we have then we would be much better. We would have more turnovers but more overall offensive production. Funny thing is our offense is still like top 3-4 for yards per game even with our slow starts. |
Linehan is calling plays that send targets deep, Stafford has just turned into captain check down for the first three quarters, and he is even struggling to complete those. |
I'm not understanding your stances... Your really trying to convince us that the play calling is the same from first to 2nd half, cause it's clearly not, and the amount of times we run vs pass definately suggest that from 1st half to 2nd halfs.
Not to mention theres a difference between sending Calvin Johnson deep and sending "little wigs" like Young/Broyles who haven't really shown they can beat there guys 1on1 unless Stafford makes a great throw. It's not just about going deep though. It's about getting your best players the ball and Calvin Johnson does not make plays early on for some reason, and that falls on the coaching staff imo to design plays/ game plans to make him open.
This season to me Tony Scheffler has clearly been the better recieving TE getting more space and hanging onto the ball better but still gets less playing time and seems like less targets. The staff aren't making adjustments. Burlesson was clearly ineffective before his injury and they still trotted him out. Logan even, as a returner, is clearly ineffective yet they trot him out. I understand it's hard to "fix" things in season but shouldn't there be SOMEONE somewhere in the organization ready to even "try" to step up to the plate? |
A great deal of the attack requires Stafford to make quick reads and find the open receiver. In the first half against Seattle CJ was wide open down field numerous times and Stafford didn't see him. He locked on to his first target.
I think it's far to early to be critical of Broyles. He isn't getting many looks but what gets thrown his way he catches. Titus is a different story.
The difference in the second half is Detroit is always behind and Stafford starts looking down field.
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detroitroar
Joined: 24 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Cant really hone in on what varies half to half, but I will say I was disappointed in the play calling this week from this stand point:
We all know the Allen and the Vikes Dline gives us fits every year. Even in the games we won, they dominated us up front. I dont get why in the world we leave Backus on an island constantly against Allen. I also dont get the constant play action when our run game is inept and they arent biting. Going with the PA in those situations just gives Stafford less time to work.
Linehan has forgotten more football than I'll ever know, but perhaps hes being stubborn, or perhaps we need a fresh eye.
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Jrugges
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 9011
Location: White Lake, Mi.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| diehardlionfan wrote: | | Jrugges wrote: | | Nnivolcm wrote: | | DetroitWhat wrote: | For me the answer is simple. We aren't aggressive until we are behind. By then its too late. Linehan seems like hes playing not to lose it in the first half and in the 2nd half he calls plays like its life or death.
If we took a life or death approach in the first half with the talent we have then we would be much better. We would have more turnovers but more overall offensive production. Funny thing is our offense is still like top 3-4 for yards per game even with our slow starts. |
Linehan is calling plays that send targets deep, Stafford has just turned into captain check down for the first three quarters, and he is even struggling to complete those. |
I'm not understanding your stances... Your really trying to convince us that the play calling is the same from first to 2nd half, cause it's clearly not, and the amount of times we run vs pass definately suggest that from 1st half to 2nd halfs.
Not to mention theres a difference between sending Calvin Johnson deep and sending "little wigs" like Young/Broyles who haven't really shown they can beat there guys 1on1 unless Stafford makes a great throw. It's not just about going deep though. It's about getting your best players the ball and Calvin Johnson does not make plays early on for some reason, and that falls on the coaching staff imo to design plays/ game plans to make him open.
This season to me Tony Scheffler has clearly been the better recieving TE getting more space and hanging onto the ball better but still gets less playing time and seems like less targets. The staff aren't making adjustments. Burlesson was clearly ineffective before his injury and they still trotted him out. Logan even, as a returner, is clearly ineffective yet they trot him out. I understand it's hard to "fix" things in season but shouldn't there be SOMEONE somewhere in the organization ready to even "try" to step up to the plate? |
A great deal of the attack requires Stafford to make quick reads and find the open receiver. In the first half against Seattle CJ was wide open down field numerous times and Stafford didn't see him. He locked on to his first target.
I think it's far to early to be critical of Broyles. He isn't getting many looks but what gets thrown his way he catches. Titus is a different story.
The difference in the second half is Detroit is always behind and Stafford starts looking down field. |
Maybe he was open, numerous times is questionable, imo, since he only caught 3 passes the whole game and Sherman if I remember right did play pretty tight coverage on him a lot. If I'm not mistaken that's the game where other players on offense did actually step up and I think Titus Young had two TD's.
Another game where Lions couldn't get their star player into the game really but thank god the others stepped up. Supposedly thats why we drafted Pettigrew/Young.
I can't pin-point and say Stafford was/wasn't hitting his first reads because I'm not sure or not if the guys were open he was passing too on his first reads anyways. I'd need to watch in-game with you to fully understand what your saying Diehard. I'm sure Stafford didn't over look Calvin Johnson open more than a hand-full of times but I could be wrong and he could of done it all game.
That game the lions also threw the ball about 50 times, which is what I think they need to go to win games because the O-line/Run game isn't meant to be leaned on to win a game or grind a tough one out. Lions should think about getting leads then grinding games out vs grinding the whole first half out to try and blow them up in the 2nd half/4th quarter. |
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| 38andy38 wrote: | | diehardlionfan wrote: | | YlionsY wrote: | | Trade him to the Rams for all their draft picks, Chris Long, Finnegan, and Bradford. |
LOL, I would do that in a heartbeat. To bad the Rams would simply chuckle and hang up. |
Yuck, sorry but Bradford wouldn't be any better, Long & Finnegan I'd take in a heartbeat. Trade Suh for them in a flash. |
Long, Finnegan and Bradford > Stafford.
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YlionsY
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| diehardlionfan wrote: | | 38andy38 wrote: | | diehardlionfan wrote: | | YlionsY wrote: | | Trade him to the Rams for all their draft picks, Chris Long, Finnegan, and Bradford. |
LOL, I would do that in a heartbeat. To bad the Rams would simply chuckle and hang up. |
Yuck, sorry but Bradford wouldn't be any better, Long & Finnegan I'd take in a heartbeat. Trade Suh for them in a flash. |
Long, Finnegan and Bradford > Stafford. |
Plus their bazillion draft picks! |
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bdubs3316
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 510
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| YlionsY wrote: | | diehardlionfan wrote: | | 38andy38 wrote: | | diehardlionfan wrote: | | YlionsY wrote: | | Trade him to the Rams for all their draft picks, Chris Long, Finnegan, and Bradford. |
LOL, I would do that in a heartbeat. To bad the Rams would simply chuckle and hang up. |
Yuck, sorry but Bradford wouldn't be any better, Long & Finnegan I'd take in a heartbeat. Trade Suh for them in a flash. |
Long, Finnegan and Bradford > Stafford. |
Plus their bazillion draft picks! |
this trade would NEVER happen...why are we even discussing it?
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