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cattleman78


Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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Location: ohio
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:31 pm    Post subject: Our 2013 needs Reply with quote

Thought this would be nice to debate. List what you think our our needs in importance. Also why? Also what round and or if you prefer free agency.
List positions by what starters need replaced the most. Example last year I thought Pashos was our worse starter but did not want to spend a top 5 pick on him.

My list
1. Free safety To me Young is our worse starter. Looks like a lot of decent free safeties in the third round. Free agency like J. Byrd would be my first choice though.
2. def. end we need a pass rusher. One decent against the run. I'd go first round now With Moore or Jordan. Could see third round wih someone like Ziggy Unsah. Use Rucker as starter and Unsah as pass rusher first year.
3. Tight end I'd go free agency here.
4. Punter late round pick

The next group could be big needs

Corner back - I'm on the resign Brown wagon for two years. Jamison Helmsley has both Haden and Brown on his all a.f.c. north team at the mid way point. Only because Webb got hurt. Brown has played well. I'm perfectly willing to roll with the corners we have. Skrine should get better and Patterson will come back. If we don't keep Brown this becomes a big need. Also if we get a free safety and a pass rusher our whole def. backfield should improve. Could draft or free agency here.

Kicker only if Phil is gone. Late draftee if Phil leaves.

Wide receiver I want to see how the receivers play out the rest of the year. I'd lean free agency here.

Linebacker Gocong will be back but we still need speed. Even Jackson should be replaced on passing downs. Maybe Jarvis Jones in the first round if he checks out medically other wise draft one later.

off. line depth
May need a guard if Pinkston can't play next year. Cousins needs replaced at back-up tackle.

Last but not least maybe
Q.B. Like receivers we need to see how Weeden plays out. Like Banner says they have to find out if Weeden is the man.

By the way other Brown's who made Jamison's team
J.Thomas
A. Mack
T.J. Ward
J. Cribbs
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boblight22


Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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Location: Cleveland
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure I followed exactly what I was supposed to do here ....
but I think I can get my thoughts across.

Biggest Needs in order:

WR
DE
FS
OG
LB

WR -
The Browns finally have some potential at WR with Josh Gordon, but I am not 100% sold on Little, Cooper, Benjamin or Norwood. MoMAss cant stay healthy and I don't expect him to be around.
I have heard many times before that the Browns WR core is the worst in the NFL. We have inexperience, inconsistent hands and average route running. I think that GOrdon will improve and might even develop into a number 1. However, I think that a big-time FA is a must here.
Wallace, Bowe or someone else immediately improves this group. We don't need a ROOKIE. With someone like that, I am pretty confident that either Little or Banjamin can help us turn out 3 solid WR's on a daily basis.

DE -
Heckert has done a fantastic job of drafting DT's and finding Sheard. However, Sheard has been invisible at times this year. Add a dominant DE like Barkevious Mingo or Jordan or Moore and I think this team is upgraded bigtime. DE's are rarely available in FA and I think that this needs to be adressed in the draft. First Round.

FS -
Usama Young is awful. HE is a poor tackler and average at best in coverage. Hagg has looked lost at times too. The Browns needs a Center Fielder that can cover the field and make plays. I think that this could either be filled in the 3rd round - by a fringe 2nd round talent, or in FA where there are always a number of safety's available.

OG -
The Browns have looked tremendous in pass blocking since the first game this year. Schwartz has improved and Thomas has been his typical Pro Bowl self. Mack has been solid. The Browns just don't get a lot of push on running plays. They need a big mauling Guard to smash holes for Trent on 3rd and 1. If this team is able to convert on 3rd and 1, we have a few more wins this year.

LB -
DeQwell has been the defensive MVP. He seems to have a bit of "attitude" this year and seems to really be taking on a leadership role.
However, while Roberson has played well at times, he is still developing. I am not a big fan of Gocong, but he is a solid starter. I think that if we can add a LB in FA - or possible in the draft - Man'te Teo/Jarvis JOnes it would greatly improve the team.

In summary -
This draft is VERY DEEP on the defensive side of the ball. In the 1st round, we need to get an impact player on defensive. In my opinion, Teo, Jones or any of the DE's that grade out best are going to be in play.
The only way I trade down, is if it is 2-3 spots for someone that wants a QB and I get a #2. We need impact players - PERIOD.

In FA - I would look to add an impact WR (spending top $ if needed) and a FS or possibly an OG.
A FB in the later rounds and some LB help are also a must.

*******
I know that many people think CB is a big need. However, I think that Haden has been great when he has been in. A DE means less time for opposing QB's to pass. I think that a FS makes Sheldon Brown, Patterson and Skrine better. I also think that Wade might be in play next season as well. I do think that we need another CB soon, but I don't think that it immediaitely upgrades us next year. (UNless of course we could grab someone of the talent level or a Brandon Carr )

Cool
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KamTrus20


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starters who need replaced

FS - Young Blows
RE - Gotta get a pass rusher with speed
CB - Sheldon Brown is old and inconsistant
WLB - Kaluka Maiava is marginal NFL Talent
MLB - Dairy Queen is soft and gets beat in coverage too often
TE - Jordan Cameron is only a 2nd year player and can turn it on but we need depth
PT - Reggie Hodges is not cutting it anymore

Obviously we cannot replace them all in 1 offseason so the big ones need to be FS, RE and CB.
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Drew_Carey


Joined: 10 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No strong order because let's be honest, they all need addressed.

Offense...
1 TE (I'd let both of FA TEs walk if replacements can be found)
2 RB with speed
3 WR to replace MoMass
4 OG potential starter, and OL depth in general

Defense
1 LB must have a new OLB next season
2 FS needs addressed - I like Rambo as many here do
3 #2 CB to replace Brown
4 pass rushing DE

Special teams
1 resign Cribbs as a returner (not WR)
2 kicker and punter

Most of our free agents will be out the door....

As for FA versus draft, I'd like to see as many holes plugged in free agency so the draft can focus more on BPA, ow ever there are too many to address effectively. With a limited number of signings I would focus on bringing in an experienced OG and TE, and also a defensive player This way we don't add more rookies to the starting offense, and fill one hole on defense.

With the draft, as aluded to above, we don't have enough picks to fill every need so free agency must be used to help. For the draft I would focus on defense first, then depth.

As for Dawson, I'd love to resign him and would try if possible, but if not shake his hand, say thank you, and let him walk. draft that kid from Oklahoma state that can punt and kick both.
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bigdogsandiego


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, nice work above in identifying needs and the million dollar question is what the priority of needs or how to use draft, FA, and trades with the goal of building a winning team. Or more importantly, how does Haslam and Banner see the big picture and what is their plan. Every astute analyst suggests this is a passing league. True, but you must be able to run the rock and stop the run especially in the 4th qtr to win games. I see a primary need to control the line of scrimmage and that means a nasty pulling G via FA as well as elite pass rusher(must come from draft and 1st rd). FS must be addressed and resolved with NFL starter at a minimum in 3rd rd. WR needs evaluation and the right veteran willing to teach/share via FA. In theory, the first four rounds produce 3 starters. Bottom line for 2013 needs: I would like to see #1 on Jones or best DE to solidify our D line and put pressure on QB, and best OG available in FA for 2-3 yrs who can run and pass block. With 4-7th rd picks, let Heckert work his magic for last year of rebuilding including P, speed RB, and speed LB.
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Drew_Carey


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigdogsandiego wrote:
elite pass rusher(must come from draft and 1st rd).


Why must de come from the draft and why must it the 1st round, and maybe more to the point WHO? I really disappointed because I'd love to draft a great (ala Peppers if you will) but I just don't that guy available. Kid from Oregon may be my favorite potential wise but you can't take that guy in the top 5....
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew_Carey wrote:
No strong order because let's be honest, they all need addressed.

Offense...
1 TE (I'd let both of FA TEs walk if replacements can be found)
2 RB with speed
3 WR to replace MoMass
4 OG potential starter, and OL depth in general

Defense
1 LB must have a new OLB next season
2 FS needs addressed - I like Rambo as many here do
3 #2 CB to replace Brown
4 pass rushing DE

Special teams
1 resign Cribbs as a returner (not WR)
2 kicker and punter

Most of our free agents will be out the door....

As for FA versus draft, I'd like to see as many holes plugged in free agency so the draft can focus more on BPA, ow ever there are too many to address effectively. With a limited number of signings I would focus on bringing in an experienced OG and TE, and also a defensive player This way we don't add more rookies to the starting offense, and fill one hole on defense.

With the draft, as aluded to above, we don't have enough picks to fill every need so free agency must be used to help. For the draft I would focus on defense first, then depth.

As for Dawson, I'd love to resign him and would try if possible, but if not shake his hand, say thank you, and let him walk. draft that kid from Oklahoma state that can punt and kick both.


I like this post, nice job.

I'm not sure we really need an OLB as a "must" though. More like a luxury, imo. Acho might turn into something and Maiava isn't that bad, and he should improve with a healthy and deep DL. Gocong and JMJ look like they will be solid.

Defense should absolutely be the priority with a DE, FS, and a CB.
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DawgSoldier


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

top needs

1 RDE in FA Connor Barwin in the Draft Moore or Werner
2 #2 CB FA DRC or draft one like Iowas Micah Hyde or tOSU's Travis Howard.
3 More size/speed at LB be it MLB or OLB FA or someone like WKU's Andrew Jackson.
4 FS I'd prefer this be a FA than a Draft pick but there are several large corners in this draft that made make a good deep cover ball hawking safety
IMO.
5 TE prefer a FA here too say Martillus Bennet or one of the large TE's from Mich ST or Bama Thats a do it all TE.
6 OL ether T/G or G/T type of player Someone like Brandon Alber or Georff Schwartz in FA or a Big body in the later rounds.
7 FB not aware of FA good ones at this time but I realy like Boren in the later rounds of tOSU though.
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Drew_Carey


Joined: 10 Mar 2012
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Location: Seattle - Cleveland
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
No strong order because let's be honest, they all need addressed.

Offense...
1 TE (I'd let both of FA TEs walk if replacements can be found)
2 RB with speed
3 WR to replace MoMass
4 OG potential starter, and OL depth in general

Defense
1 LB must have a new OLB next season
2 FS needs addressed - I like Rambo as many here do
3 #2 CB to replace Brown
4 pass rushing DE

Special teams
1 resign Cribbs as a returner (not WR)
2 kicker and punter

Most of our free agents will be out the door....

As for FA versus draft, I'd like to see as many holes plugged in free agency so the draft can focus more on BPA, ow ever there are too many to address effectively. With a limited number of signings I would focus on bringing in an experienced OG and TE, and also a defensive player This way we don't add more rookies to the starting offense, and fill one hole on defense.

With the draft, as aluded to above, we don't have enough picks to fill every need so free agency must be used to help. For the draft I would focus on defense first, then depth.

As for Dawson, I'd love to resign him and would try if possible, but if not shake his hand, say thank you, and let him walk. draft that kid from Oklahoma state that can punt and kick both.


I like this post, nice job.

I'm not sure we really need an OLB as a "must" though. More like a luxury, imo. Acho might turn into something and Maiava isn't that bad, and he should improve with a healthy and deep DL. Gocong and JMJ look like they will be solid.

Defense should absolutely be the priority with a DE, FS, and a CB.


Gocong, Jackson, and .... Maivia is great depth and the rest are development players. We need a starter.

DE, FS, and CB are all areas that I would love to address in the draft or FA but there are none rated high enough in the 1st round at this point, however there are two awfully good linebackers. Wink

And thanks. Haha



Oh and I forgot Fullback. Would the browns bring up Smelley for crying out loud!
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew_Carey wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
No strong order because let's be honest, they all need addressed.

Offense...
1 TE (I'd let both of FA TEs walk if replacements can be found)
2 RB with speed
3 WR to replace MoMass
4 OG potential starter, and OL depth in general

Defense
1 LB must have a new OLB next season
2 FS needs addressed - I like Rambo as many here do
3 #2 CB to replace Brown
4 pass rushing DE

Special teams
1 resign Cribbs as a returner (not WR)
2 kicker and punter

Most of our free agents will be out the door....

As for FA versus draft, I'd like to see as many holes plugged in free agency so the draft can focus more on BPA, ow ever there are too many to address effectively. With a limited number of signings I would focus on bringing in an experienced OG and TE, and also a defensive player This way we don't add more rookies to the starting offense, and fill one hole on defense.

With the draft, as aluded to above, we don't have enough picks to fill every need so free agency must be used to help. For the draft I would focus on defense first, then depth.

As for Dawson, I'd love to resign him and would try if possible, but if not shake his hand, say thank you, and let him walk. draft that kid from Oklahoma state that can punt and kick both.


I like this post, nice job.

I'm not sure we really need an OLB as a "must" though. More like a luxury, imo. Acho might turn into something and Maiava isn't that bad, and he should improve with a healthy and deep DL. Gocong and JMJ look like they will be solid.

Defense should absolutely be the priority with a DE, FS, and a CB.


Gocong, Jackson, and .... Maivia is great depth and the rest are development players. We need a starter.

DE, FS, and CB are all areas that I would love to address in the draft or FA but there are none rated high enough in the 1st round at this point, however there are two awfully good linebackers. Wink

And thanks. Haha



Oh and I forgot Fullback. Would the browns bring up Smelley for crying out loud!


Why can't JMJ and Gocong be the starters then if you don't like Maiava? My point was that we do have options, so maybe not a "must".

Fullback? Agree completely!
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Drew_Carey


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
No strong order because let's be honest, they all need addressed.

Offense...
1 TE (I'd let both of FA TEs walk if replacements can be found)
2 RB with speed
3 WR to replace MoMass
4 OG potential starter, and OL depth in general

Defense
1 LB must have a new OLB next season
2 FS needs addressed - I like Rambo as many here do
3 #2 CB to replace Brown
4 pass rushing DE

Special teams
1 resign Cribbs as a returner (not WR)
2 kicker and punter

Most of our free agents will be out the door....

As for FA versus draft, I'd like to see as many holes plugged in free agency so the draft can focus more on BPA, ow ever there are too many to address effectively. With a limited number of signings I would focus on bringing in an experienced OG and TE, and also a defensive player This way we don't add more rookies to the starting offense, and fill one hole on defense.

With the draft, as aluded to above, we don't have enough picks to fill every need so free agency must be used to help. For the draft I would focus on defense first, then depth.

As for Dawson, I'd love to resign him and would try if possible, but if not shake his hand, say thank you, and let him walk. draft that kid from Oklahoma state that can punt and kick both.


I like this post, nice job.

I'm not sure we really need an OLB as a "must" though. More like a luxury, imo. Acho might turn into something and Maiava isn't that bad, and he should improve with a healthy and deep DL. Gocong and JMJ look like they will be solid.

Defense should absolutely be the priority with a DE, FS, and a CB.


Gocong, Jackson, and .... Maivia is great depth and the rest are development players. We need a starter.

DE, FS, and CB are all areas that I would love to address in the draft or FA but there are none rated high enough in the 1st round at this point, however there are two awfully good linebackers. Wink

And thanks. Haha



Oh and I forgot Fullback. Would the browns bring up Smelley for crying out loud!


Why can't JMJ and Gocong be the starters then if you don't like Maiava? My point was that we do have options, so maybe not a "must".

Fullback? Agree completely!


The browns have options at every position, you never know who might develop into a starter... I don't believe JMJ is starting quality LB, at least not at this time. I like him, and think he could develop but we need a starter sooner rather than later.

TE injuries to our DTs has been a if problem, but the injury to Gocong no quality LB opposite of him has also been a major issue.

Plus, given the browns projected draft position there are no DEs, CBs, or FSs, rated that high that I have any interest in however there are two elite LBs.

Wink

I'm not saying LB is the biggest need on the team, to be honest I don't know what is... overall experience maybe, but it is hole in the roster and matches up very well with what we are looking at in the draft.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew_Carey wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
No strong order because let's be honest, they all need addressed.

Offense...
1 TE (I'd let both of FA TEs walk if replacements can be found)
2 RB with speed
3 WR to replace MoMass
4 OG potential starter, and OL depth in general

Defense
1 LB must have a new OLB next season
2 FS needs addressed - I like Rambo as many here do
3 #2 CB to replace Brown
4 pass rushing DE

Special teams
1 resign Cribbs as a returner (not WR)
2 kicker and punter

Most of our free agents will be out the door....

As for FA versus draft, I'd like to see as many holes plugged in free agency so the draft can focus more on BPA, ow ever there are too many to address effectively. With a limited number of signings I would focus on bringing in an experienced OG and TE, and also a defensive player This way we don't add more rookies to the starting offense, and fill one hole on defense.

With the draft, as aluded to above, we don't have enough picks to fill every need so free agency must be used to help. For the draft I would focus on defense first, then depth.

As for Dawson, I'd love to resign him and would try if possible, but if not shake his hand, say thank you, and let him walk. draft that kid from Oklahoma state that can punt and kick both.


I like this post, nice job.

I'm not sure we really need an OLB as a "must" though. More like a luxury, imo. Acho might turn into something and Maiava isn't that bad, and he should improve with a healthy and deep DL. Gocong and JMJ look like they will be solid.

Defense should absolutely be the priority with a DE, FS, and a CB.


Gocong, Jackson, and .... Maivia is great depth and the rest are development players. We need a starter.

DE, FS, and CB are all areas that I would love to address in the draft or FA but there are none rated high enough in the 1st round at this point, however there are two awfully good linebackers. Wink

And thanks. Haha



Oh and I forgot Fullback. Would the browns bring up Smelley for crying out loud!


Why can't JMJ and Gocong be the starters then if you don't like Maiava? My point was that we do have options, so maybe not a "must".

Fullback? Agree completely!


The browns have options at every position, you never know who might develop into a starter... I don't believe JMJ is starting quality LB, at least not at this time. I like him, and think he could develop but we need a starter sooner rather than later.

TE injuries to our DTs has been a if problem, but the injury to Gocong no quality LB opposite of him has also been a major issue.

Plus, given the browns projected draft position there are no DEs, CBs, or FSs, rated that high that I have any interest in however there are two elite LBs.

Wink

I'm not saying LB is the biggest need on the team, to be honest I don't know what is... overall experience maybe, but it is hole in the roster and matches up very well with what we are looking at in the draft.


Yeah, I can agree with that. I do expect a pretty decent dip into free agency this offseason though, we'll see who's available and that should help to clear up the picture a little.
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bigdogsandiego


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew Carey, For elite pass rusher via draft, I mentioned Jones or best DE per Heckert as we should select #3-8. Yes, if Heckert really likes a DE as you mentioned, then trade down but you dont get a chance for a defensive playmaker DE/LB with Top 5 pick very often.

Yes, FA and trades prior to draft will certainly change our priority of needs. Banner and staff will be evaluating the players on hand as there are decisions on what to do with our potential FA's first.

I still stand by the premise our primary need is the line of scrimmage as mentioned in previous post but I do understand some of the different points of view with their choice of priorities. This year's draft has been called one of the best defensive drafts in recent history by all the NFL experts who actually get paid big bucks to pontificate their opinions. Browns need to create an identity on defense via the draft and use FA for offensive needs. This is the formula for success. Work the plan and plan the work!
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Drew_Carey


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigdogsandiego wrote:
Drew Carey, For elite pass rusher via draft, I mentioned Jones or best DE per Heckert as we should select #3-8. Yes, if Heckert really likes a DE as you mentioned, then trade down but you dont get a chance for a defensive playmaker DE/LB with Top 5 pick very often.

Yes, FA and trades prior to draft will certainly change our priority of needs. Banner and staff will be evaluating the players on hand as there are decisions on what to do with our potential FA's first.

I still stand by the premise our primary need is the line of scrimmage as mentioned in previous post but I do understand some of the different points of view with their choice of priorities. This year's draft has been called one of the best defensive drafts in recent history by all the NFL experts who actually get paid big bucks to pontificate their opinions. Browns need to create an identity on defense via the draft and use FA for offensive needs. This is the formula for success. Work the plan and plan the work!
.

Yes. I agree with so many of your points.

We all want a defensive focused draft and there are different paths to get there. Man it feels like this Defense is so close to being very good... Just fill in the last few holes and keep everyone healthy for a few games and they can do some serious damage. I think we are close to a bears type defense if they can just pull everything together.

but i have to say I'm a it worried that with the fans all on the same page that the browns will do the opposite! Hahaha
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