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Chiefs promote LB coach Gary Gibbs to Defensive Coordinator
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ring of Fame wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
He's definitely not an idiot, but he does seem to let his ego get in the way of decision making, or maybe it's penny pinching or whatever. Ultimately, for every good decision, he's easily made one terrible one too.


See I don't think that's the case. He's made two UNFORGIVABLE decisions: continuing to believe Cassel could lead this team long after it became clear he was among the most limited QB's in the league and failing to add talent at the most important position on the field. (I think we all liked the trade at the time, so the decision to trade for Cassel is fine by me.) Second, drafting Tyson Jackson. Yes, the 2009 draft class was shallow, but that doesn't excuse missing wildly on a No. 3 overall pick - not with Raji and Orakpo also on the board.

Those two failings - and they were MASSIVE failings, no doubt - are Pioli's original sin. Those are the two things that have driven Chiefs fans to the edge. It has NOT been a series of 'terrible' decisions that led to this. This is the misconception here. Fortunate for us, Pioli can right one of those wrongs by upgrading the QB position.

(Can't speak to the bugging phone lines, intimidation tactics, etc. inside the offices because we simply don't know exactly what happened.)

`


all the coaching decisions, Tony Gonzalez, Brian Waters (2 games with 22 guys off the street). He's got way more sins than Tyson Jackson and Matt Cassel (who by the way many hated the trade at the time, you'll find several on this board alone who would have rather continued to play Thigpen than trade for that bum).
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Ring of Fame


Joined: 02 Feb 2009
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Location: Lawrence, KS via KCMO
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Ring of Fame wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
He's definitely not an idiot, but he does seem to let his ego get in the way of decision making, or maybe it's penny pinching or whatever. Ultimately, for every good decision, he's easily made one terrible one too.


See I don't think that's the case. He's made two UNFORGIVABLE decisions: continuing to believe Cassel could lead this team long after it became clear he was among the most limited QB's in the league and failing to add talent at the most important position on the field. (I think we all liked the trade at the time, so the decision to trade for Cassel is fine by me.) Second, drafting Tyson Jackson. Yes, the 2009 draft class was shallow, but that doesn't excuse missing wildly on a No. 3 overall pick - not with Raji and Orakpo also on the board.

Those two failings - and they were MASSIVE failings, no doubt - are Pioli's original sin. Those are the two things that have driven Chiefs fans to the edge. It has NOT been a series of 'terrible' decisions that led to this. This is the misconception here. Fortunate for us, Pioli can right one of those wrongs by upgrading the QB position.

(Can't speak to the bugging phone lines, intimidation tactics, etc. inside the offices because we simply don't know exactly what happened.)

`


all the coaching decisions, Tony Gonzalez, Brian Waters (2 games with 22 guys off the street). He's got way more sins than Tyson Jackson and Matt Cassel (who by the way many hated the trade at the time, you'll find several on this board alone who would have rather continued to play Thigpen than trade for that bum).


Don't make me go over the head coaching decisions again. Neither was a 'poor' decision in and of itself. Neither one was a Bobby Petrino type. He didn't hire Tom Cable. He hired Todd Haley - a proven offensive mind in the league, a passionate coach and a guy who landed on his feet in PIT. Romeo? Well, he's got 5 Super Bowl Rings, boatloads of respect from players/coaches across the league, and he had head coaching experience.

Pioli traded Tong G for a second-round pick.... after we had 10 seasons of Hall of Fame caliber production from the guy. So wait, you wanted 10 seasons of Tony G and then wanted to turn him into MORE than a 2nd rounder? Again, we're not playing a game of Madden. We got great value for Tony and gave him a chance to finish his career on a contending team - which he wanted and we wanted for him. Again, not a bad decision.

Brian Waters didn't want to be here. He's got an ego of his own believe it or not (see, his time in NE). You can't wish someone to stay in KC if they're unhappy with new ownership. This happens whenever there's rollover in the front office.

Your post is the typical garbage Chiefs fans spew as a result of being 1-7. Don't revise history. It's simply not true and everyone needs to see past the perception and get down to the facts.

`
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ring of Fame wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
He's definitely not an idiot, but he does seem to let his ego get in the way of decision making, or maybe it's penny pinching or whatever. Ultimately, for every good decision, he's easily made one terrible one too.


See I don't think that's the case. He's made two UNFORGIVABLE decisions: continuing to believe Cassel could lead this team long after it became clear he was among the most limited QB's in the league and failing to add talent at the most important position on the field. (I think we all liked the trade at the time, so the decision to trade for Cassel is fine by me.) Second, drafting Tyson Jackson. Yes, the 2009 draft class was shallow, but that doesn't excuse missing wildly on a No. 3 overall pick - not with Raji and Orakpo also on the board.

Those two failings - and they were MASSIVE failings, no doubt - are Pioli's original sin. Those are the two things that have driven Chiefs fans to the edge. It has NOT been a series of 'terrible' decisions that led to this. This is the misconception here. Fortunate for us, Pioli can right one of those wrongs by upgrading the QB position.

(Can't speak to the bugging phone lines, intimidation tactics, etc. inside the offices because we simply don't know exactly what happened.)

`

Is Cassel by himself responsible for this team's record? Or Cassel and Tyson? No, this is WAY bigger then those two. Tyson isn't even close to the worst player on our defense.

IMO, any decision that has not worked out and has led to a team this bad after four years of doing things your way is UNFORGIVABLE.

Let's not forget the good decisions he didn't make. This isn't just an evaluation of the things he's done, but also the ones he's failed to do. Downgrading at several positions over the years by failing to bring in better players. Not retaining guys he should have. Not signing for UFA's he could have that would have been better. Not drafting much better players that were available. Not getting coaches that would have done a better job.

Sure these things are less concrete, but good GM's do these thigns well consistently. He has not.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ring of Fame wrote:
Your post is the typical garbage Chiefs fans spew as a result of being 1-7. Don't revise history. It's simply not true and everyone needs to see past the perception and get down to the facts.

`

That kind of comment is unnecessary. I don't think anyone has called your opinion garbage, not that that would make your comment OK.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
Ring of Fame wrote:
Your post is the typical garbage Chiefs fans spew as a result of being 1-7. Don't revise history. It's simply not true and everyone needs to see past the perception and get down to the facts.

`

That kind of comment is unnecessary. I don't think anyone has called your opinion garbage, not that that would make your comment OK.


Fair enough, I really mean no disrespect to anyone, just got a little heated.
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Ring of Fame


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
Ring of Fame wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
He's definitely not an idiot, but he does seem to let his ego get in the way of decision making, or maybe it's penny pinching or whatever. Ultimately, for every good decision, he's easily made one terrible one too.


See I don't think that's the case. He's made two UNFORGIVABLE decisions: continuing to believe Cassel could lead this team long after it became clear he was among the most limited QB's in the league and failing to add talent at the most important position on the field. (I think we all liked the trade at the time, so the decision to trade for Cassel is fine by me.) Second, drafting Tyson Jackson. Yes, the 2009 draft class was shallow, but that doesn't excuse missing wildly on a No. 3 overall pick - not with Raji and Orakpo also on the board.

Those two failings - and they were MASSIVE failings, no doubt - are Pioli's original sin. Those are the two things that have driven Chiefs fans to the edge. It has NOT been a series of 'terrible' decisions that led to this. This is the misconception here. Fortunate for us, Pioli can right one of those wrongs by upgrading the QB position.

(Can't speak to the bugging phone lines, intimidation tactics, etc. inside the offices because we simply don't know exactly what happened.)

`

Is Cassel by himself responsible for this team's record? Or Cassel and Tyson? No, this is WAY bigger then those two. Tyson isn't even close to the worst player on our defense.

IMO, any decision that has not worked out and has led to a team this bad after four years of doing things your way is UNFORGIVABLE.

Let's not forget the good decisions he didn't make. This isn't just an evaluation of the things he's done, but also the ones he's failed to do. Downgrading at several positions over the years by failing to bring in better players. Not retaining guys he should have. Not signing for UFA's he could have that would have been better. Not drafting much better players that were available. Not getting coaches that would have done a better job.

Sure these things are less concrete, but good GM's do these thigns well consistently. He has not.


I just don't think 4 years is enough time to say Pioli does or doesn't consistently do all of those things well. We've been to the playoffs with him one out of three years (soon to be one out of four), but he took over a 2-14 team. The first year is breaking everything down to build it back up so it's basically one Conference championship in three years.

Don't get me wrong, the team's performance this year is unacceptable. This shouldn't happen two years after winning the West and that's what's most concerning. This is the kind of season that can cost you your job and if it's understandable if Pioli's fired. But remember, he has a track record of success. He helped rebuild the Jets and saw success in New England. He's a football lifer. How can we call this year (which looks more like an outlier than the norm) evidence that Pioli inconsistently makes good decisions?

I'm not sure exactly what moves your referring but I still believe he's built a roster that can sustain success. Lots of work still to do with current contracts expiring and other depth moves, but the core talent looks strong.

`
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to post a reply to all of this in a more appropriate thread. This was supposed to be about Crennel stepping down, and Gibbs becoming DC.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ring of Fame wrote:


He can... if he's not fired. Pioli's built a solid roster and put us in good financial position. In my opinion he deserves another draft/offseason to make this thing work. Remember - this guy isn't an idiot. Please remember this because it seems to get lost too easily.

`


He's added on to the existing roster and made it better, but hasn't exactly wowed us with great picks outside Lewis and Houston (who most of us had an eye on as well, not like he was a diamond in the rough). So other than resigning most of our key players, which were no brainers he hasn't done a whole lot.

I still think he's an idiot...yes he's more egomaniac than idiot, but he SIGNED Cassel to a big contract and HIRED Romeo in a dual role...there are very few GM's who would've done ONE of those things, let alone both. By GM standards, he's a world class idiot.

ROF, i'd certainly like to know who liked the Cassel trade even at the time...even if some did, I don't think they liked the contract. Chiefs fans have also been "spewing garbage" regarding Pioli long before 1-7 happened.
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People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of


Last edited by ArrowheadRage58 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
Ring of Fame wrote:


He can... if he's not fired. Pioli's built a solid roster and put us in good financial position. In my opinion he deserves another draft/offseason to make this thing work. Remember - this guy isn't an idiot. Please remember this because it seems to get lost too easily.

`


He's added on to the existing roster and made it better, but hasn't exactly wowed us with great picks outside Lewis and Houston (who most of us had an eye on as well, not like he was a diamond in the rough). So other than resigning most of our key players, which were no brainers he hasn't done a whole lot.

I still think he's an idot...yes he's more egomaniac than idiot, but he SIGNED Cassel to a big contract and HIRED Romeo in a dual role...there are very few GM's who would've done ONE of those things, let alone both. By GM standards, he's a world class idiot.

ROF, i'd certainly like to know who liked the Cassel trade even at the time...even if some did, I don't think they liked the contract. Chiefs fans have also been "spewing garbage" regarding Pioli long before 1-7 happened.


I'll give him credit where it is due. Lewis was a great pick. Houston was the obvious one. Nothing about Lewis was obvious.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was that not our best defensive game of the year? Blitzes, exotic blitzes with Lewis running from deep in the secondary? I loved what I saw from Gibbs tonight.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probly just Steelers ineptitude...we're not allowed to blame defensive struggles on coaching or turnovers, our players just aren't as good as we thot.

I'll be interested to see how they play again next week for sure, especially after fighting so hard and losing again.
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People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of
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