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Please, Jimmy Haslam, fire Shurmur now
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Should Haslam fire Shurmur now?
Yes
52%
 52%  [ 24 ]
No
45%
 45%  [ 21 ]
Other, and why?
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 46

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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big poppa pump wrote:
Entropy wrote:
big poppa pump wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Oh by the way, for those of you watching the Bears/Texans game...

Cutler left the game with a concussion, um, but not right away...he played a few downs first, THEN was evaluated at halftime and didn't return.

Seemed pretty obvious he was hit in the head and was shaken up. Do those of you that fault Shurmur also fault Lovie Smith? Especially since there are now specific protocols in place, yet Cutler still played a few more downs?

Is Lovie Smith a horrible coach? Or is this ok since his team has a winning record?

See guys, you can't have it both ways.


Hey bro.....by your way of thinking, a coach should never be fired. It's always the players fault.

Bro....A coach must not be responsible for getting his players ready and putting them in the best position to win.

Bro... A coach is certainly not responsible for the play-calling that only the media thinks is suspect.

Bro....A coach is only one guy and whether or not he shows an ability to lead has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome of games.

I mean bro..... a coach really is just a figure-head and anyone could do the job. Heck...get Joe-blow from the streets to come in, and if he has talent, his team will win games.

Bro
Didn't see the game, so I can't speak on what Lovie Smith did in regards to leaving Cutler in the game. Doesn't matter if he has a winning record or not, if he left him in the game when it was obvious that Cutler had a concussion, then he should get blamed for keeping him in.

Ask yourself this bro...How many coaches are in the league that you would rather have than Pat Shurmur? If there aren't many, then I feel sorry for you.


See, I was using the word "bro" to be polite, you then used it to be annoying and childish.

You also absolutely misrepresented what I said. Don't ever claim to know what someone else is thinking when you can't even provide any evidence.

I know that you were using "bro" to be rude, my evidence is your post with the egregious use of the word "bro".

Your evidence that I was claiming that no coach should ever be fired is based on NOTHING I said.

My suggestion to you would be to read my posts more carefully, and try to formulate intelligent responses.

Let's see if the Chicago media and their fans fixate on leaving Cutler in the game a few plays after he was concussed. Let's also see if any other teams, who have already had a few similar situations this year, do it as well.

My guess is that they won't as long as their team is winning.

Now, if you want to put on your big-boy pants and have a discussion, answer these questions that I asked already:

Which coach was going to make Colt McCoy a top 15 QB?
Which was going to make Massaquoi not injury prone?
Which coach was going to make Brian Robiskie not a bad pick?

and a few more...

Which coach was going to make Richardson not miss preseason?
Which coach was going to get a winning record starting so many rookies on offense and defense?

Now here is an important part, try to clean out your ears this time for this one:

Did I say Shurmur was a great coach? Did I say he has not made any mistakes? Did I say coaches should never be fired?


Yes the bro comments were meant to be sarcastic...Not a big fan of the word. Your condescending comments I believe warranted that.

Don't have an answer as to who would have made the Browns better, however, I believe I have seen enough to know that it isn't Shurmur.

You ask what coach would have made Colt a better QB? It's obvious you had seen enough of him to see that it was time to move on...how many games did he get?

Does this mean that a coach should be given more time than a QB for you to formulate an opinion as to whether or not he is good?

By the tone of your posts, it appears that you feel that most of the blame should be put on the players. I even stated that for the most part I agree with that. They are the ones that are playing the game. If you don't feel that Shurmur is blameless, then say so.

I think it's time to move on. He is just about gone already. I would allow Jauron or Chilly to finish out the year and then figure out what to do in the off-season. You obviously feel differently.


Yes, I feel the greatest reason we have lost so many games is due to the play (or lack of play) by the guys on the field.

Yes, Shurmur appears to be on his way out at this time.

No, he is not really responsible for the losing.

Fans should not expect a coaching change to, on its own, make any significant change to wins and losses next year. It will be the talent, development, and experience of the players on the roster now that will have the greatest impact on wins and losses, always.

A coaching change could hamper the process as well, as I mentioned earlier, if a roster rebuild becomes necessary.

Bottom line: If you can't specifically name plays that, if executed properly, would have lost a game, or name a coach that could have led us to a winning season with all the rookies (just look at history), THEN it probably aint a coaching or play calling problem.
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big poppa pump


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
big poppa pump wrote:
Entropy wrote:
big poppa pump wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Oh by the way, for those of you watching the Bears/Texans game...

Cutler left the game with a concussion, um, but not right away...he played a few downs first, THEN was evaluated at halftime and didn't return.

Seemed pretty obvious he was hit in the head and was shaken up. Do those of you that fault Shurmur also fault Lovie Smith? Especially since there are now specific protocols in place, yet Cutler still played a few more downs?

Is Lovie Smith a horrible coach? Or is this ok since his team has a winning record?

See guys, you can't have it both ways.


Hey bro.....by your way of thinking, a coach should never be fired. It's always the players fault.

Bro....A coach must not be responsible for getting his players ready and putting them in the best position to win.

Bro... A coach is certainly not responsible for the play-calling that only the media thinks is suspect.

Bro....A coach is only one guy and whether or not he shows an ability to lead has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome of games.

I mean bro..... a coach really is just a figure-head and anyone could do the job. Heck...get Joe-blow from the streets to come in, and if he has talent, his team will win games.

Bro
Didn't see the game, so I can't speak on what Lovie Smith did in regards to leaving Cutler in the game. Doesn't matter if he has a winning record or not, if he left him in the game when it was obvious that Cutler had a concussion, then he should get blamed for keeping him in.

Ask yourself this bro...How many coaches are in the league that you would rather have than Pat Shurmur? If there aren't many, then I feel sorry for you.


See, I was using the word "bro" to be polite, you then used it to be annoying and childish.

You also absolutely misrepresented what I said. Don't ever claim to know what someone else is thinking when you can't even provide any evidence.

I know that you were using "bro" to be rude, my evidence is your post with the egregious use of the word "bro".

Your evidence that I was claiming that no coach should ever be fired is based on NOTHING I said.

My suggestion to you would be to read my posts more carefully, and try to formulate intelligent responses.

Let's see if the Chicago media and their fans fixate on leaving Cutler in the game a few plays after he was concussed. Let's also see if any other teams, who have already had a few similar situations this year, do it as well.

My guess is that they won't as long as their team is winning.

Now, if you want to put on your big-boy pants and have a discussion, answer these questions that I asked already:

Which coach was going to make Colt McCoy a top 15 QB?
Which was going to make Massaquoi not injury prone?
Which coach was going to make Brian Robiskie not a bad pick?

and a few more...

Which coach was going to make Richardson not miss preseason?
Which coach was going to get a winning record starting so many rookies on offense and defense?

Now here is an important part, try to clean out your ears this time for this one:

Did I say Shurmur was a great coach? Did I say he has not made any mistakes? Did I say coaches should never be fired?


Yes the bro comments were meant to be sarcastic...Not a big fan of the word. Your condescending comments I believe warranted that.

Don't have an answer as to who would have made the Browns better, however, I believe I have seen enough to know that it isn't Shurmur.

You ask what coach would have made Colt a better QB? It's obvious you had seen enough of him to see that it was time to move on...how many games did he get?

Does this mean that a coach should be given more time than a QB for you to formulate an opinion as to whether or not he is good?

By the tone of your posts, it appears that you feel that most of the blame should be put on the players. I even stated that for the most part I agree with that. They are the ones that are playing the game. If you don't feel that Shurmur is blameless, then say so.

I think it's time to move on. He is just about gone already. I would allow Jauron or Chilly to finish out the year and then figure out what to do in the off-season. You obviously feel differently.


Yes, I feel the greatest reason we have lost so many games is due to the play (or lack of play) by the guys on the field.
I think they are equally to blame.
Yes, Shurmur appears to be on his way out at this time.
Thank God
No, he is not really responsible for the losing.
Disagree...I believe he shares some of the blame. To what degree, I can't answer that.
Fans should not expect a coaching change to, on its own, make any significant change to wins and losses next year. It will be the talent, development, and experience of the players on the roster now that will have the greatest impact on wins and losses, always.
I agree
A coaching change could hamper the process as well, as I mentioned earlier, if a roster rebuild becomes necessary.
I don't think so. Unless we had to completely overhaul the team, which i don't believe will happen.

Bottom line: If you can't specifically name plays that, if executed properly, would have lost a game, or name a coach that could have led us to a winning season with all the rookies (just look at history), THEN it probably aint a coaching or play calling problem.


Just because I can't name a coach that would have lead us to more wins, doesn't mean he doesn't exist. If I knew, or better yet if the front office knew, we wouldn't be sitting here with just 2 wins.
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say most of it is on the players. Mistakes and penalties. Dropped passes and passes thrown poorly. Missed tackles and missed interceptions. Below average special teams outside of Dawson and Yount.

You do have to blame Shurmur for some playcalling and clock management.

This team has way more talent than it has wins. In the N.F.L. fairly or unfairly the coach takes the blame.
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big poppa pump wrote:
Entropy wrote:


Bottom line: If you can't specifically name plays that, if executed properly, would have lost a game, or name a coach that could have led us to a winning season with all the rookies (just look at history), THEN it probably aint a coaching or play calling problem.


Just because I can't name a coach that would have lead us to more wins, doesn't mean he doesn't exist. If I knew, or better yet if the front office knew, we wouldn't be sitting here with just 2 wins.


I get it, you are frustrated and I think it's safe to say that we all are.

But please listen to what you just said. The coach you are looking for, that would bring us to more victories, is imaginary.

Ask yourself why that is. Is it because you want Supercoach to swoop in from the skies and wave his hand, mutter some magical words in some secret language and transform the team into a winner? That would be welcomed, but it has never happened once, ever.

You are looking for something that doesn't exist. I don't blame you because we all are sick of waiting, and now we have to wait more.

But here, let me tell you something both true and positive...

We have lost so many games over the past 13 years because we did not have the talent level to compete with most NFL teams, so we needed to win mostly by being lucky.

Whatever you think of Shurmur, the team competes with everyone, and does so at the highest level I have seen since 1999. The corner is being turned. We have overcome the mistakes of all those horrible talent evaluators to have a team that has the talent to beat ANY other team in the NFL. The players just need to develop now.

The "die is cast", so to speak.

So, barring catastrophic injuries or horrible personnel decisions, we will have a winning team soon, for real.

Joe Banner is not Butch Davis, or any of those other ego-driven amateurs. It is nearly impossible that he will make horrible personnel decisions, so I think we just need a little bit of fortune and we will be fine as early as next year and surely in the next 2 years.

Why will this happen? Not because of magic or dumb luck, but because we FINALLY went through the process of building, which cost (or will cost) several individuals their jobs, but was the necessary process.
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duke2056


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shurmur does stupid things and makes stupid mistakes, and crumbles under any pressure, as bad or worse than an average college (maybe high school) coach does.

The game is too big for him. The pressure is too much for him. Being smart has nothing to do with being able to VERY quickly process information and make good sound decisions.

He is unable to think on his feet. It's painful to watch. It's embarrassing to be a fan of.

There are some aspects of coaching I would expect him to get better at, but that will not make up for his inability to quickly process information well enough to make important decisions in NFL games. There has been ZERO improvement in this from last year to this year.


The guy is cracking right now. The whole world and their brother knows he is going to get fired, so I am sure he knows it. Even still, a real NFL coaching personality would actually be able to keep their head on straight and push forward. This dude looks like he is aging a year every week that goes by, and his level of frustration and irritability is through the roof, not a good trait for a legit NFL head coach.

If the guy, even KNOWING he is gonna be fired, was able to pull himself together in interviews, and also show some promise and handle situations adequately in NFL games, I might have some hope for him, and he could possibly even coach his way into keeping his job.

Nope, none of that is even coming close to happening. The dude simply does not possess the mental capacity than an NFL coach needs.

Now, as far as firing him now or at the end of the year, I have no preference. It doesn't matter to me one way or another.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
It will be the talent, development, and experience of the players on the roster now that will have the greatest impact on wins and losses, always..


I am with you on a lot of what you are saying, but, whose job is it to develop talent if not the coaching staff. you bring up all those San Francisco 49'ers teams and how the coaches failed without great talent, but it was also those coaches who put that talent in a position to win games.

Coaches are not blameless in failure or success. They do have an impact and I have two specific examples from just the last few seasons as examples.

Pretty much the same players are playing in New Orleans in 2012 as were in 2012, and yet they already have more losses than they did all of last season. A lot of that is due to the disruption of bountygate, but the primary disruption of that scandal was the replacement of the head coach.

The 2010 San Francisco 49'es were not really that much less talented than the 2011 49'ers, but the coaching staff changed and put the team in a much better position to win which very nearly led to a Super Bowl berth. The 2011 49'ers were not dramatically more talented or experienced than their 2010 counterparts, but the results were.
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
Entropy wrote:
It will be the talent, development, and experience of the players on the roster now that will have the greatest impact on wins and losses, always..


I am with you on a lot of what you are saying, but, whose job is it to develop talent if not the coaching staff. you bring up all those San Francisco 49'ers teams and how the coaches failed without great talent, but it was also those coaches who put that talent in a position to win games.

Coaches are not blameless in failure or success. They do have an impact and I have two specific examples from just the last few seasons as examples.

Pretty much the same players are playing in New Orleans in 2012 as were in 2012, and yet they already have more losses than they did all of last season. A lot of that is due to the disruption of bountygate, but the primary disruption of that scandal was the replacement of the head coach.

The 2010 San Francisco 49'es were not really that much less talented than the 2011 49'ers, but the coaching staff changed and put the team in a much better position to win which very nearly led to a Super Bowl berth. The 2011 49'ers were not dramatically more talented or experienced than their 2010 counterparts, but the results were.


I'm sure it would have been better for the Saints to have their coach all season, but to say that their losses are NOT mostly related to the play of their defense is pretty blind. I might be more inclined to believe that the loss of Williams had a small impact of the defensive play because the players had to adapt to something different. However, the fact is that the defensive play had already been declining since 2010.

Also, strongly disagree with your suggestion that a coaching staff made the difference with the 49ers. Look at my previous post about the "dynasty" 49ers for proof. It was the timing that made it appear to be the coaching staff. Like I said in the Gruden thread, Dungy could have taken the Bucs to the SB had he not left the year before.

Oh, and it takes more than 9 games to develop rookies.

Shurmur is not blameless, but neither are the players. The players, however, are more responsible for their play than Shurmur.
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
Shurmur does stupid things and makes stupid mistakes, and crumbles under any pressure, as bad or worse than an average college (maybe high school) coach does.

The game is too big for him. The pressure is too much for him. Being smart has nothing to do with being able to VERY quickly process information and make good sound decisions.

He is unable to think on his feet. It's painful to watch. It's embarrassing to be a fan of.

There are some aspects of coaching I would expect him to get better at, but that will not make up for his inability to quickly process information well enough to make important decisions in NFL games. There has been ZERO improvement in this from last year to this year.


The guy is cracking right now. The whole world and their brother knows he is going to get fired, so I am sure he knows it. Even still, a real NFL coaching personality would actually be able to keep their head on straight and push forward. This dude looks like he is aging a year every week that goes by, and his level of frustration and irritability is through the roof, not a good trait for a legit NFL head coach.

If the guy, even KNOWING he is gonna be fired, was able to pull himself together in interviews, and also show some promise and handle situations adequately in NFL games, I might have some hope for him, and he could possibly even coach his way into keeping his job.

Nope, none of that is even coming close to happening. The dude simply does not possess the mental capacity than an NFL coach needs.

Now, as far as firing him now or at the end of the year, I have no preference. It doesn't matter to me one way or another.


What in this post is not just a silly overly negative opinion? Sorry if someone sees something I don't.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:

I'm sure it would have been better for the Saints to have their coach all season, but to say that their losses are NOT mostly related to the play of their defense is pretty blind.


I never said it wasn't related to their defense. But, your point is that execution and talent are the primary contributors to team success, which to an extent I agree with. I just believe coaching has a larger impact then you are giving credit to. Obviously, without talent, almost no coach can succeed. But given the same talent, different coaches will likely have different success.

The Saints defense went from 13th in PPG to 29th, and I believe that a lot of that comes down to lacking the control and guidance and game planning of a good head coach.

I might be more inclined to believe that the loss of Williams had a small impact of the defensive play because the players had to adapt to something different. However, the fact is that the defensive play had already been declining since 2010.

Quote:
Also, strongly disagree with your suggestion that a coaching staff made the difference with the 49ers. Look at my previous post about the "dynasty" 49ers for proof.


That's not really proof of anything. You can't really "prove" this argument, because you can never go back in time. I do not deny the development of talent (which is a coach's job mind you) and the players are the biggest contributor to success, but it was Harbaugh's ability to A. Get the most out of his players and B. Put his players in a position to succeed and C. Game plan/prepare accordingly, which allowed his team to do so well.

I suppose that you believe had Singletary been kept on the 49'ers still would have had the success?

Quote:
Oh, and it takes more than 9 games to develop rookies.


I don't disagree. You aren't arguing with a Shurmur hater here, despite my occasional during-game rants.
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
Entropy wrote:

I'm sure it would have been better for the Saints to have their coach all season, but to say that their losses are NOT mostly related to the play of their defense is pretty blind.


I never said it wasn't related to their defense. But, your point is that execution and talent are the primary contributors to team success, which to an extent I agree with. I just believe coaching has a larger impact then you are giving credit to. Obviously, without talent, almost no coach can succeed. But given the same talent, different coaches will likely have different success.

The Saints defense went from 13th in PPG to 29th, and I believe that a lot of that comes down to lacking the control and guidance and game planning of a good head coach.

I might be more inclined to believe that the loss of Williams had a small impact of the defensive play because the players had to adapt to something different. However, the fact is that the defensive play had already been declining since 2010.

Quote:
Also, strongly disagree with your suggestion that a coaching staff made the difference with the 49ers. Look at my previous post about the "dynasty" 49ers for proof.


That's not really proof of anything. You can't really "prove" this argument, because you can never go back in time. I do not deny the development of talent (which is a coach's job mind you) and the players are the biggest contributor to success, but it was Harbaugh's ability to A. Get the most out of his players and B. Put his players in a position to succeed and C. Game plan/prepare accordingly, which allowed his team to do so well.

I suppose that you believe had Singletary been kept on the 49'ers still would have had the success?

Quote:
Oh, and it takes more than 9 games to develop rookies.


I don't disagree. You aren't arguing with a Shurmur hater here, despite my occasional during-game rants.


Ok, I can see where we disagree more clearly now. You say that "given the same talent, different coaches will likely have different success". I think that is kind of true, but also kind of misleading. I would say that as long as a coach is competent and the team is healthy and talented, they will have a very good chance for success, though not the exact same results.

Let's say that it is given that most coaches achieve the opportunity to coach by demonstrating the necessary tools to have success. Now, this is not about anyone's opinion of Shurmur, just a starting point to demonstrate my belief.

Now, you say that the 49ers coaching staff was the reason for the turnaround from 2010. But did Alex Smith really play much better in 2011? Moreso than you would expect a QB to improve in one year with a healthy LT and starting RB? Did the coaching keep Gore healthy? How about Joe Staley? 2 starting offensive linemen were rookies in 2010. Was 2010 too soon to give up on Reggie Smith? Were Donte Whitner and Carlos Rogers available in 2010?

There's more too, if you want to see it. But that seems like plenty to show that timing played a pretty big role.

If we examine the differences between coaches, it always comes down to the success their teams have. However, every coach had to begin with a winless record. We also see that very few coaches can leave one team very successful to make another team successful...why? I say it's because the team makes the coach (the coach's reputation) and NOT the other way around.

Some proof of this is found all over history with successful coaches running bad teams for years.

By the way, "proof" doesn't mean "to prove" it is simply evidence of a thesis.

Oh, and yes, I think that Singletary would have had a very good chance to succeed with a healthy RB, LT and another year to get FAs.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:

Let's say that it is given that most coaches achieve the opportunity to coach by demonstrating the necessary tools to have success. Now, this is not about anyone's opinion of Shurmur, just a starting point to demonstrate my belief.


To an extent. However, play calling, talent development, game preparation, film study, adjustments and the ability to make decisions under fire are all things that can have a significant impact on how a game plays out, would you agree? And those do come from a head coach.

Quote:
But did Alex Smith really play much better in 2011? Moreso than you would expect a QB to improve in one year with a healthy LT and starting RB? Did the coaching keep Gore healthy? How about Joe Staley? 2 starting offensive linemen were rookies in 2010. Was 2010 too soon to give up on Reggie Smith? Were Donte Whitner and Carlos Rogers available in 2010?


But both Donte Whitner and Carlos Rogers had been disappointing with their previous teams. Neither had the success with their first franchises that they had in San Francisco. And I don't think they accounted for a 7 point swing in PPG defense.

As to Alex Smith- so many coaches tried to develop him, so many failed. I think it does fall on the coaches that they managed to put him in a position to win. Its not like he suddenly became an elite QB, he went from 14 touchdowns to 17, but ten interceptions down to 5. I think a lot of that can be credited to the positions he was put in. Obviously, he did improve but coaching certainly helped.



Quote:
There's more too, if you want to see it. But that seems like plenty to show that timing played a pretty big role.


Timing is important, but I do not believe that success is inevitable.
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
Entropy wrote:

Let's say that it is given that most coaches achieve the opportunity to coach by demonstrating the necessary tools to have success. Now, this is not about anyone's opinion of Shurmur, just a starting point to demonstrate my belief.


To an extent. However, play calling, talent development, game preparation, film study, adjustments and the ability to make decisions under fire are all things that can have a significant impact on how a game plays out, would you agree? And those do come from a head coach.

Quote:
But did Alex Smith really play much better in 2011? Moreso than you would expect a QB to improve in one year with a healthy LT and starting RB? Did the coaching keep Gore healthy? How about Joe Staley? 2 starting offensive linemen were rookies in 2010. Was 2010 too soon to give up on Reggie Smith? Were Donte Whitner and Carlos Rogers available in 2010?


But both Donte Whitner and Carlos Rogers had been disappointing with their previous teams. Neither had the success with their first franchises that they had in San Francisco. And I don't think they accounted for a 7 point swing in PPG defense.

As to Alex Smith- so many coaches tried to develop him, so many failed. I think it does fall on the coaches that they managed to put him in a position to win. Its not like he suddenly became an elite QB, he went from 14 touchdowns to 17, but ten interceptions down to 5. I think a lot of that can be credited to the positions he was put in. Obviously, he did improve but coaching certainly helped.



Quote:
There's more too, if you want to see it. But that seems like plenty to show that timing played a pretty big role.


Timing is important, but I do not believe that success is inevitable.


Agree completely about game preparation, adjustment, and play calling...all that stuff you said. Those things can give the team an even better chance, but it still comes down to actually using that information to execute on the field. I don't see how some are so sure that Shurmur is not doing that stuff competently. I can remember not too long ago, we were regularly getting embarrassed on the scoreboard, which can be signs of lacking talent as well as poor preparation.

I see plays being called that, if executed, make us a powerful offense. That fumbled double reverse? Benji had all day to run if he holds on. If Weeden hits a few more open receivers (and they actually catch it), we are about .500, maybe better. Pretty impressive considering the youth on the team and the opponents we competed against.

I disagree about Rogers and Whitner. They are both better than what the 49ers had before and also were both solid players on bad teams.

About Smith, I absolutely agree that coaching is very important, crucial, in the development of players. But I don't think it's rocket science either. It's not something only a few coaches in the NFL can do. Most QB coaches can do well given the talent to work with and the time to develop it. How many different coaches has Smith had? 6-7? That is not good at all.

I agree that success is not inevitable, failure is though. Success tends to be pretty predictable, however.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:

I see plays being called that, if executed, make us a powerful offense. That fumbled double reverse? Benji had all day to run if he holds on. If Weeden hits a few more open receivers (and they actually catch it), we are about .500, maybe better. Pretty impressive considering the youth on the team and the opponents we competed against.


I don't disagree. While some of his play calls I have disagreed with, by and large I've been pro-Shurmur
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
Entropy wrote:

I see plays being called that, if executed, make us a powerful offense. That fumbled double reverse? Benji had all day to run if he holds on. If Weeden hits a few more open receivers (and they actually catch it), we are about .500, maybe better. Pretty impressive considering the youth on the team and the opponents we competed against.


I don't disagree. While some of his play calls I have disagreed with, by and large I've been pro-Shurmur


And that, sir, is why you are a brilliant man! Very Happy
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