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I hate to be the Debbie Downer..but it's time to shift focus
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ProudDolphan47


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Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 5548
Location: Lancaster, PA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: I hate to be the Debbie Downer..but it's time to shift focus Reply with quote

The first half of this season was fun. We were surprised with November relevancy and a winning record later into the season than we're used to. We have a lot of promising leads with this team, a lot of youth and talent which is coming together under Coach Joe Philbin, who I think is doing an outstanding job. He holds players accountable, he shows the ability to form an effective game plan, he seems like a player's coach.

But sitting at 4-5 after this total abomination yesterday...things are not going to end well for this season. We could very easily beat Buffalo and be back to 5-5...but don't like your emotions get caught up in the record. I was guilty of doing so myself in the Colts game. We were 4-3 on the verge of 5-3 and looking promising for a playoff spot! And then we lost 2 games we were 'supposed' to win. Fact is, were we really supposed to win those two games? Did those two teams come in with inferior talent to us? We have great football players, but they're in the least relevant places on the football field. Our interior D-line is the deepest in football. But I don't know if you guys heard about this revolutionary idea called the forward pass...but it's legal and we can't stop it for crap.

We have good pieces. Tannehill has shown a lot of promise over the course of the season. Our running backs are deep. We have a stud on the center of our offensive line. Our defensive line is missing a piece or two and our linebackers are effective and winning matchups. But in the NFL these days, you need to pass and defend the pass to win. We have no receivers who can consistently win one on one matchups, and our secondary outside of Reshad Jones and at times Sean Smith is out of position and loses individual matchups on a regular basis. That's no good.

So with that said and acknowledged...no matter WHAT happens for the rest of the season, I am shifting my focus to the draft. I am shifting my focus to the players we can bring in to take us where we need to go. I'm talking O-line, pass rush, receivers, secondary. The places we need to fill in the blanks.

I've been one of the diehard draftniks here in the Dolphins forum for the past several seasons. I've had my fair share of hits and misses. From here on out, I'm going to be establishing my share of relevant scouting reports for the Dolphins. My to do list will be as posted below. Request? Go ahead and post one!

WR
DeAndre Hopkins, Clemson
Keenan Allen, Cal
Robert Woods, USC
Justin Hunter, UT
Ryan Swope, TA&M
Cordarrelle Patterson, UT

TE
Tyler Eifert, ND

OT
DJ Fluker, Alabama
Chance Warmack, Alabama
Jake Matthews, TA&M
Luke Joeckel, TA&M
Taylor Lewan, Michigan

OG
Barrett Jones, Alabama

DE
Bjoern Werner, FSU
Jarvis Jones, UGA

CB
Xavier Rhodes, FSU
Johnathon Banks, Miss St
Dee Milliner, Alabama

S
Eric Reid, LSU
Matt Elam, UF

BPA
Manti Teo, ND

More to come.
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Fender


Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not saying lets not talk about the future, but while theres football to be played and watched, and players to watch progress its definitely not time to move on yet. There's plenty of time left for draft talk AND football discussion.
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ProudDolphan47


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fender wrote:
Not saying lets not talk about the future, but while theres football to be played and watched, and players to watch progress its definitely not time to move on yet. There's plenty of time left for draft talk AND football discussion.


Oh definitely. I'm still going to watch every single game, cheer for wins and evaluate who we have here. But I'm just expressing my opinion to let the reality of what this team is sink in and recognize it. Embrace it, and give some attention to the end of the college season. If you're a scouter at heart, this is HUGE time for talent evaluations. So my attention is going to shift from 'do or die must win' to 'who can we use going forward?'
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PhinFan52


Joined: 01 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A list of players to look at.. in no order.. not predicting we draft.. just guys I wouldn't mind if we did..

CB.. Jordan Poyer 6'0" 190 Oregon St.. Bradley Roby 5'11" 190 Ohio St.
Desmond Trufant 6'0" 185

WR.. DeAndre Hopkins 6'1 200.. Clemson

TE.. Joseph Fauria 6'7" 258 UCLA

S/FS.. T.J. McDonald 6'2" 205 USC... Robert Lester 6'2" 210 Alabama

OLB.. Gerald Hodges 6'2" 238 Penn St.. Jonathan Brown 6'1" 235 Ill.

OL.. Barrett Jones 6'5" 311 Alabama.....
Omoregie Uzzi 6'3" 300 Georgia Tech..

DE.. Damontre Moore 6'4" 250 Texas A&M


Last edited by PhinFan52 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ovaw8lover


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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Location: Dolphins Stadium
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This team lacks speed period. I will endorse any move that increases team speed. Have you seen us attempt to run a screen pass on offense? Its embarrassing as our lineman cant move.

They have to let Starks go. Not that he does not deserve a new contract, we just cannot afford to pay the money he will command for that position. Resources must be spread to the offense. An athletic defensive end must be drafted or signed via free agency. Odrick is not the answer. Move him inside to take over for Starks. Sean Smith has value and should be resigned so he can matchup against larger receivers but another, smaller CB needs to be drafted for the quicker guys. Im sorry but our guards need to go. They are terrible at moving laterally.
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phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: South Carolina
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, absolutely PD47. I'm going to borrow a page from Ovaw's play-book and come at all this from a cynical and cold perspective.

Our CBs are average at best. (Smith, Carroll, Wilson, Marshall)
Our FS sucks. (Clemons)
Our SS is decent, not great. (Jones)

Our OLBs are good tacklers, nothing great is coverage. (Misi/Burnett)

Our ILB is our best player. (Dansby)

Our DEs are alright. (Wake has a high motor, Vernon is developmental)

Our DTs are a notch above average being glorified run-stuffers. (Soliai, Starks, Odrick)



I mean, I'm just not going to pull any punches with this defense anymore. It's one of the most over-rated in the league and we've seen why every week. We give up plays we shouldn't and have won on the strength of decent offense. Accurate QBs beat us. Mobile QBs beat us. Speed beats us. Elusiveness beats us. And finally, we beat ourselves over and over.

Sean Smith over the last 3 games has shown me every reason why he shouldn't be re-signed. He's been a liability in 3 straight games and faced no one that impressive. Starks, who also needs a contract, is probably the best and most reliable DT we have so as Russ said, if we can find a way to hold him and lose Soliai instead, it would be better for us.

I don't see anyone on this team that needs to be here long-term other than Tannehill and Pouncey. Every other player is over-rated. Hartline, Bess, Bush, Clay, Thomas and whatever else we have a WR are never going to see a Super Bowl. I'm fine with having Bess around for consistency but his lack of speed is a serious problem. If Hartline's cheap enough he can be resigned to contribute while better, more talented rookies develop.

Bush isn't going to paid big money playing as he has this season. He'll be answering questions about age soon enough as well. We need to move to Miller if we can. Thomas is decent but unspectacular. Miller and Martin will get their shot moving forward but need to produce more than they have.

No reason not to call it like it is. You're right PD. We need to get to the point where we have average production across the O-line and a few real receiving options for Tannehill. He needs at least 2 more targets going into next year and another new body on the O-line. That is most crucial.

Defense needs something but I'm still 100% convinced that this draft need to funnel talent towards the offense so that we're a half-way balanced football team which we are not right now. The defense can benefit a little from time and development anyhow.


Last edited by phinmun on Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovaw8lover wrote:
This team lacks speed period. I will endorse any move that increases team speed. Have you seen us attempt to run a screen pass on offense? Its embarrassing as our lineman cant move.

They have to let Starks go. Not that he does not deserve a new contract, we just cannot afford to pay the money he will command for that position. Resources must be spread to the offense. An athletic defensive end must be drafted or signed via free agency. Odrick is not the answer. Move him inside to take over for Starks. Sean Smith has value and should be resigned so he can matchup against larger receivers but another, smaller CB needs to be drafted for the quicker guys. Im sorry but our guards need to go. They are terrible at moving laterally.



Yep, yep, yep.


What did you think about Russ' idea of re-signing Starks and trading away Soliai? There are a handful of teams that would give us something for Soliai.

I'm not trying to be sneaky with acquiring picks either, I just want to retain the better guy. If you had a chance to move ahead with Starks and get rid of Soliai instead, would you do it?

I mean, let's not over-rate Starks here. The guy has a couple good games a year in which he has a sack or two and deflects a pass or something. He's not a great player nor will he get a huge contract. Plus, the dude's like 30 or something so I don't see who's going to throw big money at him. He's solid, not great.
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Maddogg


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now based on a probable draft position of 18, I would like an order of Barrett Jones -OG/OT/C to go please in round 1!
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Russ57


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ovaw8lover, rarely do I find myself in strong disagreement with with regards to OL and DL. In general I yeild to your superior knowledge. This time I just can't agree.

I strongly feel a teams DL has to be much higher caliber players than the OL. The DL guys have to be strong enough to handle man on man power blocking schemes yet fast enough to pursure backside on ZBS. It takes a rare man to have that power, speed, and agility.

I'd like my OL to have no higher than 3rd round guards, a 2nd round RT, and I can handle a 1st round LT. A high round pick on a center is a huge luxury but a nice one to have.

By contrast I expect my DE's to be a couple of my highest and best paid picks. My DT's shouldn't be that far behind if I want guys that can collapse the pocket and pressure the passer.

Right now the only ideal player we have is Wake. Starks and Odrick are "okay" for the time being as we have bigger needs on the offense.
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Deadeye


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ova's right about the team speed. We really, really lack speed and need to upgrade several positions with faster players. Our offense lacks a single player who can go the distance every time they touch the football.

On a related point, I disagree that we are deep at RB. I for one would like to see us draft a guy like Ellington from Clemson. He's smallish, but absolutely dynamic and a threat every time he touches the ball. I think Bush as great as he's been is getting up there in age and looks to be slowing down. Daniel Thomas still looks like a bust to me. The only guy who has top flight talent is Miller. I want another threat to take some of the load off of Lamar, and add some firepower to the offense in the process.
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jw33d


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can you scout Lester and Rambo
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Russ57


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not sure what youy are looking for jw33d. I put Lester at low 70's and Rambo at mid to high 80's on my "big 100 board". I'd rate them as the sixth and seven best.

The guy I like that I don't see a lot of mention in other's mocks is TJ McDonald. I have him rated ahead of Kenny Vacarro but nobody else seems to.

If I could get Tony Jefferson in the same range as Lester/Rambo I'd be all over that in a heartbeat.

Ray Ray Armstrong could offer good value in a late round pick. For our team Zeke Motta could go latter than the guys you mention but bring better leadership and direction to our young secondary.

IMHO it is a good year to consider safety. From our inability to deal with TE's, plays across the middle, and the long ball.....for a very long time now....we all know we need some talent there.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadeye wrote:
Ova's right about the team speed. We really, really lack speed and need to upgrade several positions with faster players. Our offense lacks a single player who can go the distance every time they touch the football.

On a related point, I disagree that we are deep at RB. I for one would like to see us draft a guy like Ellington from Clemson. He's smallish, but absolutely dynamic and a threat every time he touches the ball. I think Bush as great as he's been is getting up there in age and looks to be slowing down. Daniel Thomas still looks like a bust to me. The only guy who has top flight talent is Miller. I want another threat to take some of the load off of Lamar, and add some firepower to the offense in the process.


As a Clemson fan I'm not about to down Watkins, Hopkins or Ellington but Ellington's got just enough speed to take it to the house now. He's elite for the college game and he's a nice back in an offense that wants to throw primarily. Not sure how he'll look once he gets to the next level.

He's sort of a poor man's CJ Spiller. Which ain't bad but I'm not sure he'll have take-it-to-the-house speed is what I'm saying.

He'll probably be value for wherever he's taken. Where do you think he'll go in the draft? Mid-rounds?
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DOLFAN016


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know he's only a rJR, but what about TE Gavin Escobar from San Diego State? I would love more info on a guy at his position that is 6'6" 255 that runs a 4.65 40. He also leads his team in rec, yards, and rec TD. I still reallllly want Eifert though.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOLFAN016 wrote:
I know he's only a rJR, but what about TE Gavin Escobar from San Diego State? I would love more info on a guy at his position that is 6'6" 255 that runs a 4.65 40. He also leads his team in rec, yards, and rec TD. I still reallllly want Eifert though.


I was gonna say him. He is my sleeper prospect
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