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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12581
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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 Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: |
- i think when teams start working out guys jake will prove he can play rt or lt if needed and i think he will be the 2nd ot off the board behind joek
Have you watched Lewan? Seriously, with his Michigan pedigree he will give Joeckell run for his money on being the 1st OT off the board. Lewan is the real deal.
- im not on the ziggy fan waggon. if we dont trade down and go ot in the first and still dont have a 2nd id like the rb taylor out of stanford. if i had to go OG i really like Larry Warford from Kentucky he does everything well imo.
Warford is going high 2nd. The Raiders have no chance at him logistically. I concur on Stepfan Taylor. An excellent one-cut RB who the Raiders also have no chance at drafting unless they reach.
- its funny how you knock ziggy cause of his rawness but pick guys like the cb from uconn? ill have to do research on him.
I have a few mid to late rd CBs that I am really high on. Purdue's Josh Johnson & Illinois Hawthorne. They fit the profile of what McKenzie would draft late.
- bias? you guys are way to sensitive. ive been on board saying i wouldnt mind cp staying another year or 2 and i dont want to draft a qb. you mentioned cp in the off season section and i just gave my two cents. I know im in the minority but i dont think he is worth 16 mil. just like i dont think rich, dmac, beisel and tko are worth the money they are getting |
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-i was trying to think about the whole mich pedigree thing and besides jake long i can think of any good oline men. i think jake matts is a serious threat for the first ot off the board. he is the smoothest ot ive seen since odgen. i saw him vrs lsu, bama and other games and he is a mobile wall.
draft rant: people like the tex a&m qb but forget hes behind two of the best ots in the business
-i think warford and stephen taylor will be there early 3nd. i think we'll pick top 10 so early third. sometimes backs like taylor get lost in the draft. hes a gamer not a combine freak imo. so he'll get knocked down because of that.
-i think we might go cb early bartell and spence havent proved anything except they can get injured imo. id even go trufant in the 3rd. hawthorn the concussion dude? i like commings from georgia a whole lot (you gotta see my next mock) or even smith on the other side.
-ps dont forget about tank 
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agarcia34
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 1808
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Veldheer and pretty much ever other OL we have don't fit the ZBS and I feel once the season ends and they fire Knapp that will end the ZBS in Oakland.
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3764
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: |
-i was trying to think about the whole mich pedigree thing and besides jake long i can think of any good oline men. i think jake matts is a serious threat for the first ot off the board. he is the smoothest ot ive seen since odgen. i saw him vrs lsu, bama and other games and he is a mobile wall.
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Big Blue OT Alums: Deidorf, Jumbo, Runyan, Jon Jansen, Backus (so-so), Jake Long.
Earlier this week you suggested you weren't high on flipping OL from their natural side, now you're suggesting that Matthews will be taken over Joeckel and Lewan to flip him. I'm assuming this is a spoiler alert and Matthews will be your 1st pick in your mock over Lewan and Joeckel, which would be flawed imo. If the Raiders are so high on Matthews to draft him over the other two what makes you so sure that it wouldn't be with the intent of playing him on the left? Veldheer isn't playing that great; he's solid. I have a hard time grasping why anyone would pass on 2 elite LTs to draft a RT who by your own account may have more upside on the left?
It's frustrating when you create a flawed line of logic to fit your narrative. How could Matthews possible be the 1st OT off the board when he isn't even the best OT on his team?? I've never seen Matthews projected as a LT or rated higher than Joeckel. By position alone Matthews won't be the 1st OT off the board. What makes Matthews attractive is his extensive ZBS experience but his lack of girth will suggest that he is more suited to a finesse system and limit his suitors causing him to fall into the middle 1st. Matthews is also the smallest of the 3. I'm not saying it's all about size but it will cause him to be passed over for the other two.
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2013 Mancrush: DT Richardson, OT Joeckel, FS Vaccaro, FS Rambo, WR Dobson, RB Michael, TE McDonald, OT Foketi, WR Swope |
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7249
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: |
- bias? you guys are way to sensitive. ive been on board saying i wouldnt mind cp staying another year or 2 and i dont want to draft a qb. |
And you also said Pat Lee was more important to the team than him. GTFO w/ that crap. You're as bias as they come.
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7249
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: |
-i was trying to think about the whole mich pedigree thing and besides jake long i can think of any good oline men. i think jake matts is a serious threat for the first ot off the board. he is the smoothest ot ive seen since odgen. i saw him vrs lsu, bama and other games and he is a mobile wall.
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Big Blue OT Alums: Deidorf, Jumbo, Runyan, Jon Jansen, Backus (so-so), Jake Long.
Earlier this week you suggested you weren't high on flipping OL from their natural side, now you're suggesting that Matthews will be taken over Joeckel and Lewan to flip him. I'm assuming this is a spoiler alert and Matthews will be your 1st pick in your mock over Lewan and Joeckel, which would be flawed imo. If the Raiders are so high on Matthews to draft him over the other two what makes you so sure that it wouldn't be with the intent of playing him on the left? Veldheer isn't playing that great; he's solid. I have a hard time grasping why anyone would pass on 2 elite LTs to draft a RT who by your own account may have more upside on the left?
It's frustrating when you create a flawed line of logic to fit your narrative. How could Matthews possible be the 1st OT off the board when he isn't even the best OT on his team?? I've never seen Matthews projected as a LT or rated higher than Joeckel. By position alone Matthews won't be the 1st OT off the board. What makes Matthews attractive is his extensive ZBS experience but his lack of girth will suggest that he is more suited to a finesse system and limit his suitors causing him to fall into the middle 1st. Matthews is also the smallest of the 3. I'm not saying it's all about size but it will cause him to be passed over for the other two. |
Someone needs to REALLY read and understand this. Surely opinions cannot be right or wrong but this is 99.999999999999% fact.
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Quote: |
you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs? |
not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them |
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Darbsk
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 617
Location: Wales, UK
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Another well researched and well presented post Bagga!
Totally agree with the logic of not creating holes and not trying to fix everything in one draft, this is a 3 year journey folks.
I can see only one of Kelly and Seymour hanging around and thats if they restructure, Franklin or Terrance Knighton I could see Reggie going after aswell as a value LB like Daryl Smith.
We simply must improve the OL so I like the first couple of picks and the logic behind them though I don't like a TE in the 4th as we could potentially get a starting LB like we did with Burris.
Don't like the QB pick, franchise QBs are drafted in the first round and we can find a cheap FA that'll do just the same job in a couple years time, IMO draft a 1st rd QB or not at all, the chances of getting the QBoF in the mid to late rounds in negligible.
I like the look of Phillip Thomas but i'd like to take a punt on Latavius Murray in the later rounds, good vision, great size and great hands out of the backfield, coming off a torn knee ligament so his draft stock is way low :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2rUpbfsHgE
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Mr. Al Davis RIP |
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RaidersAreOne
Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 4752
Location: Canada, Where All We Do Is Play Hockey And Sleep In Igloos
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Darbsk wrote: | Another well researched and well presented post Bagga!
Totally agree with the logic of not creating holes and not trying to fix everything in one draft, this is a 3 year journey folks.
I can see only one of Kelly and Seymour hanging around and thats if they restructure, Franklin or Terrance Knighton I could see Reggie going after aswell as a value LB like Daryl Smith.
We simply must improve the OL so I like the first couple of picks and the logic behind them though I don't like a TE in the 4th as we could potentially get a starting LB like we did with Burris.
Don't like the QB pick, franchise QBs are drafted in the first round and we can find a cheap FA that'll do just the same job in a couple years time, IMO draft a 1st rd QB or not at all, the chances of getting the QBoF in the mid to late rounds in negligible.
I like the look of Phillip Thomas but i'd like to take a punt on Latavius Murray in the later rounds, good vision, great size and great hands out of the backfield, coming off a torn knee ligament so his draft stock is way low :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2rUpbfsHgE |
Impressive highlight tape. I like how highly everyone speaks of him. Let me get this straight though, he tore his ACL, and then just recently torn another ligament in his knee? Or is it the same injury they are talking about? Regardless, he clearly has some injury concerns but it looks like the kid can play.
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Second jersey purchased: Rolando McClain.
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12581
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: |
-i was trying to think about the whole mich pedigree thing and besides jake long i can think of any good oline men. i think jake matts is a serious threat for the first ot off the board. he is the smoothest ot ive seen since odgen. i saw him vrs lsu, bama and other games and he is a mobile wall.
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Big Blue OT Alums: Deidorf, Jumbo, Runyan, Jon Jansen, Backus (so-so), Jake Long.
Earlier this week you suggested you weren't high on flipping OL from their natural side, now you're suggesting that Matthews will be taken over Joeckel and Lewan to flip him. I'm assuming this is a spoiler alert and Matthews will be your 1st pick in your mock over Lewan and Joeckel, which would be flawed imo. If the Raiders are so high on Matthews to draft him over the other two what makes you so sure that it wouldn't be with the intent of playing him on the left? Veldheer isn't playing that great; he's solid. I have a hard time grasping why anyone would pass on 2 elite LTs to draft a RT who by your own account may have more upside on the left?
It's frustrating when you create a flawed line of logic to fit your narrative. How could Matthews possible be the 1st OT off the board when he isn't even the best OT on his team?? I've never seen Matthews projected as a LT or rated higher than Joeckel. By position alone Matthews won't be the 1st OT off the board. What makes Matthews attractive is his extensive ZBS experience but his lack of girth will suggest that he is more suited to a finesse system and limit his suitors causing him to fall into the middle 1st. Matthews is also the smallest of the 3. I'm not saying it's all about size but it will cause him to be passed over for the other two. |
im just saying imo jake could play lt IF needed. this year has shown us how valuable a rt is. hell the last 5-7 years have shown us that rt is important. didnt Oher start at rt in the nfl but moved to lt? I think the FO still believes in jv and he will start at lt next year. matt can start at rt.
call me crazy but from the games ive watched jake is just as good if not better than joek. joek got exposed vrs florida while jake was solid facing the same comp since ends switch sides often. they are 1a and 1b then there is lewan imo.
joek is 6'6 310, jake is 6'5 305, lewan is 6'8 302. i dont think size is that big of a deal. i saw lewan vrs bama (before he went out with injury) and he had problems vrs them with flags and getting beat same with Notre Dame. iirc jake was solid vrs bama, aub and lsu. lewan had issues with flags before also which kinda turns me off a lil. jake has been solid vrs all of the premier de's or olb's cant say the same for lewan. just compare their resumes.
fwiw i think we will pick maybe 7 or 8. I think joek will go top 5. id take jake at 7 or 8. i could see carolina, titans, cinci or maybe even rams taking an OT before we pick. not saying they will all pick a OT but at least one will maybe 2. maybe you are right and joek and lewan are the first 2 off the board. im still ok with picking jake.
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Darbsk
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 617
Location: Wales, UK
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| RaidersAreOne wrote: | | Darbsk wrote: | Another well researched and well presented post Bagga!
Totally agree with the logic of not creating holes and not trying to fix everything in one draft, this is a 3 year journey folks.
I can see only one of Kelly and Seymour hanging around and thats if they restructure, Franklin or Terrance Knighton I could see Reggie going after aswell as a value LB like Daryl Smith.
We simply must improve the OL so I like the first couple of picks and the logic behind them though I don't like a TE in the 4th as we could potentially get a starting LB like we did with Burris.
Don't like the QB pick, franchise QBs are drafted in the first round and we can find a cheap FA that'll do just the same job in a couple years time, IMO draft a 1st rd QB or not at all, the chances of getting the QBoF in the mid to late rounds in negligible.
I like the look of Phillip Thomas but i'd like to take a punt on Latavius Murray in the later rounds, good vision, great size and great hands out of the backfield, coming off a torn knee ligament so his draft stock is way low :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2rUpbfsHgE |
Impressive highlight tape. I like how highly everyone speaks of him. Let me get this straight though, he tore his ACL, and then just recently torn another ligament in his knee? Or is it the same injury they are talking about? Regardless, he clearly has some injury concerns but it looks like the kid can play. |
I believe it was just the one tear of the ACL. A serious injury no doubt, but having had the injury myself I was able to recover and actually was quicker and stronger 24 months after the injury than before it so with the correct treatment it shouldn't be the worry it was a decade ago.
I'd definately take the gamble for a 6th or 7th especially with McFadden having a contract year in 2013 I believe.
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It may take us a short while, but we'll get that nastiness of the Raiders back.
Mr. Al Davis RIP |
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3764
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Darbsk wrote: | Another well researched and well presented post Bagga!
Thanks!
Totally agree with the logic of not creating holes and not trying to fix everything in one draft, this is a 3 year journey folks.
Nailed it! I totally agree. This may take a bit longer than we think. When you talk about changing the culture of the team you basically have to till the whole team over and eliminate anyone associated with the cancer.
I can see only one of Kelly and Seymour hanging around and thats if they restructure, Franklin or Terrance Knighton I could see Reggie going after aswell as a value LB like Daryl Smith.
Love the Knighton suggestion and Smith is definitely on my radar. Great value suggestions!
We simply must improve the OL so I like the first couple of picks and the logic behind them though I don't like a TE in the 4th as we could potentially get a starting LB like we did with Burris.
Here's the thing with Feidorowicz, he has hands you can build on while Gordon doesn't. I didn't mean to give the impression that CJ couldn't catch. CJ is actually pivotal in Iowa's aerial assault as anemic as it is. Iowa's new OC has been an abject failure but HC Frentz is still there and knows what it takes to be an Iowa TE. CJ has impressive size/speed ratio but has been hidden in a poorly run offense.
Don't like the QB pick, franchise QBs are drafted in the first round and we can find a cheap FA that'll do just the same job in a couple years time, IMO draft a 1st rd QB or not at all, the chances of getting the QBoF in the mid to late rounds in negligible.
I specifically stated that Sorensen isn't the QBotF. He is a spot duty QB that can fill in for an injured starter. Sorensen could be a single season bridge to get to the QBotF when Palmer retires and hold over to teach the system. That's all.
I like the look of Phillip Thomas but i'd like to take a punt on Latavius Murray in the later rounds, good vision, great size and great hands out of the backfield, coming off a torn knee ligament so his draft stock is way low :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2rUpbfsHgE
I'm a volunteer track coach, the very first thing I noticed in the highlight clip was that there is something wrong with Murray's gait (Let me know if you concur). Clearly his knee is still healing. To lack lateral agility 6'3" would almost be to tall. Maybe reminiscent of Brandon Jacobs? Looks like an UDFA |
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2013 Mancrush: DT Richardson, OT Joeckel, FS Vaccaro, FS Rambo, WR Dobson, RB Michael, TE McDonald, OT Foketi, WR Swope |
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Darbsk
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 617
Location: Wales, UK
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | Here's the thing with Feidorowicz, he has hands you can build on while Gordon doesn't. I didn't mean to give the impression that CJ couldn't catch. CJ is actually pivotal in Iowa's aerial assault as anemic as it is. Iowa's new OC has been an abject failure but HC Frentz is still there and knows what it takes to be an Iowa TE. CJ has impressive size/speed ratio but has been hidden in a poorly run offense. |
Fair point, I thought we were just swapping for the sake of it which would seem a waste. If he could help in the run game then it would be worth while (I don't know much about the kid TBH)
| Baggabonez wrote: | | I specifically stated that Sorensen isn't the QBotF. He is a spot duty QB that can fill in for an injured starter. Sorensen could be a single season bridge to get to the QBotF when Palmer retires and hold over to teach the system. That's all. |
My mistake, you did say that!!! Still, if we're just after a QB to tide us over a year i'd probably get a vet in like a Jason Campbell or an Alex Smith provided the teams fate doesn't rest on their shoulders and they just have to manage the game.
| Baggabonez wrote: | | I'm a volunteer track coach, the very first thing I noticed in the highlight clip was that there is something wrong with Murray's gait (Let me know if you concur). Clearly his knee is still healing. To lack lateral agility 6'3" would almost be to tall. Maybe reminiscent of Brandon Jacobs? Looks like an UDFA |
He does have an slightly odd, almost leaning style of run like he's dragging the right leg a little (from the video that appears to be the injured knee), but what impressed me was the change of direction was smooth and as he cuts he hunkers down lowering his centre of gravity for such a tall back. His hands are very good and natural so he looks comfortable catching the ball.
The hardest thing after an ACL is gaining the confidence in changing direction rather than straight line running, and it looks like he has overcome that mental barrier so with a full season of NFL level conditioning I could see him running in a similar style (though not to compare talent obviously) as a Marcus Allen.
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