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Do you currently believe Ryan Tannehill is the answer?
Yes, he is on the right track and just needs to develop with expirience.
93%
 93%  [ 54 ]
No, I wouldn't be surprised if Barkley was a Dolphin in 2013.
6%
 6%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 58

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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6780
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
SUG wrote:
Excellent points from all you guys.

The Rookie/Sophmore Slump is no mirage, happens all the time to good QBs.
And even top tier college QBs take time to develop & fully grasp the job description & the ever expanding playbook.
Even Rodgers took 2 yrs to really establish the current level of excellence & thats after 2 yrs with the same Playbook riding the bench. (+4 yrs)

Philbins acquisition of RT college HC is without question a major advantage in his early success.

Also in my opinion (as I have said several times) the talent level around Tanney is inadequate for this
West Coast style Offense.
Half of the current starting players will not be with us in another 2 yrs.

Isn't one of the most common "tags" said about really good QBs that they make avg players around them look much better ...???

I in fact feel plenty good about what Tanney has shown me, kid has all the physical tools + he clearly demonstrates command of the huddle & the Playbook @ an accelerated pace.
We all know how well he has corrected his mistakes wk to wk.

sug



Yeah, I don't want to sound bad because I love what I'm seeing from Tannehill, but that bolded part is what I have worries about.

It's my guess that a lot of QBs look to be in command because what checks they're making are fairly mundane. I think what we're seeing from Tannehill is his ability to audible in a fairly basic way.

I feel sort of greedy in saying I have higher standards because I don't really. What I guess I mean is that I really hope Tannehill doesn't hit an early plateau/ceiling next year when he's doing the same basic things but the coverage is tighter and taking away his easy options against pressure.

I just think that the way he's beating pressure right now is with a basic understanding of what to do when it comes.
I hope he can take it to the next level by developing chemistry with some of the more outstanding guys to really create some meaningful results in clutch situations.

We don't have those outstanding guys though which I said above was a shame.


Consider if we make the Play-offs...I'm sure Tannehill will show some flaws and we'll be screaming bloody murder that we don't have any play-makers to help him beat Play-Off caliber heat! Very Happy


Well, I've seen plenty of 2 - 3 & 4 yr NFL QBs that don't understand pressure.
Henne could not audible to save his life nor did he ever grasp adjusting blocking assignments.
I had to sit there screaming at my Tv "don't snap the ball yet moron, do you not see those guys
overloading the left side"
& Bam he'd get schalaked & fumble.

I was talking with Neidermeir the other day & we both welcome Indy or anybody else showing
Blitz against Tanney, bring it! He get's it & knows he needs to unload the ball to his Hot Route.

I haven't seen a rookie QB do that in Mia since the Great one 15 - 18 yrs ago.

As for Tanney hitting his ceiling .... I just don't see that yet, he's only been a starting QB for a
total of like 2 yrs or some ridunculously small amount.
Kid has a arseload of time to continue growing.

I have to ask myself just how much of the Mia Off playbook has been installed ...?
Cause you just wait till we have about 3 Brian Hartlines (route runners with really good hands) out there
swaping from X - Y OR Z routes after they break the huddle & before the snap based on
Tanney making a good read.

What does worry me is that he continue to improve his decision making.
Yeah he'll hit a few gms where
he gets his "chops handed back to him" like a playoff gm.
That's all part of the learning process, hell that front side hit he took in the injury was completely his fault, unecesary.

I can't remember the last time I felt this good about a QB in Mia, he's better than anything the past
15 yrs, that's real progress in my book.

sug
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ovaw8lover


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to see his pass per completion get higher. It just seems he is always around that 180 yard range with 35 pass attempts. I would like to see him in the 220-250 range more consistently. Perhaps that is a knock on his receiver talent.
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bpastermack


Joined: 17 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My two favorite things about Tannyhill so far are this...

1. His coolness under pressure. His stats prove it. He is one of the best QB's in the NFL when being blitzed according to the stats. This is extremely rare, and shows his brains as well as his coolness in the pocket and awareness, which really can't be taught. This is something most rookies struggle with the most.

2. His ability to elevate the play of very average players. Tannyhill Has a higher completion percentage, more yards per attempt and an overall higher QB rating so far than Luck. And he doesn't have guys with the talents of a Reggie Wayne on the roster. He has made Hartline look good enough for teams to have to roll coverage to his side.

One thing I would still really like to see more in the future is the killer instinct in the 4th quarter. He actually showed it a little bit in the first Jets game when he led us down the field only to miss the game winning field goal. But I want to see him become a player who really elevates his game in the fourth quarter.
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bpastermack


Joined: 17 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovaw8lover wrote:
I would like to see his pass per completion get higher. It just seems he is always around that 180 yard range with 35 pass attempts. I would like to see him in the 220-250 range more consistently. Perhaps that is a knock on his receiver talent.


His yards per attempt is actually almost a whole yard higher than Luck's
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freak_of_nature


Joined: 15 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did his YPG just drop dramatically because of his injury last week?
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phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
Well, I've seen plenty of 2 - 3 & 4 yr NFL QBs that don't understand pressure.
Henne could not audible to save his life nor did he ever grasp adjusting blocking assignments.
I had to sit there screaming at my Tv "don't snap the ball yet moron, do you not see those guys
overloading the left side"
& Bam he'd get schalaked & fumble.

I was talking with Neidermeir the other day & we both welcome Indy or anybody else showing
Blitz against Tanney, bring it! He get's it & knows he needs to unload the ball to his Hot Route.

I haven't seen a rookie QB do that in Mia since the Great one 15 - 18 yrs ago.

As for Tanney hitting his ceiling .... I just don't see that yet, he's only been a starting QB for a
total of like 2 yrs or some ridunculously small amount.
Kid has a arseload of time to continue growing.

I have to ask myself just how much of the Mia Off playbook has been installed ...?
Cause you just wait till we have about 3 Brian Hartlines (route runners with really good hands) out there
swaping from X - Y OR Z routes after they break the huddle & before the snap based on
Tanney making a good read.

What does worry me is that he continue to improve his decision making.
Yeah he'll hit a few gms where
he gets his "chops handed back to him" like a playoff gm.
That's all part of the learning process, hell that front side hit he took in the injury was completely his fault, unecesary.

I can't remember the last time I felt this good about a QB in Mia, he's better than anything the past
15 yrs, that's real progress in my book.

sug


Well, my point was that we haven't seen any type of a threshold yet. We haven't seen him hit that first plateau but we will. At some point--probably next year--he'll start facing blitz' and pressure that are more effective at taking away his bail-out option.

My point was two-fold:

1) Tannehill has looked great but so have most other 1st-round QBs in the last 5 years during their rookie campaigns. I would even say that Henne had most of us swayed towards thinking he had good potential. Remember that garbage time in Arizona where he got his first snaps? Kind of ironic, huh? Wink

2.) The proof is in the pudding when it comes to those 2nd and 3rd years when the QB is asked to do more and is facing more intense defenses who are going to understand where he wants to go under pressure. Tannehill's going to struggle moving forward more than he is now. He's ahead of the curve for a lot of reasons (some he's responsible for, some he's not) but his biggest challenges are ahead of him.


I definitely think Tannehill has showed something extra in terms of his ability to stay poised and to deliver good passes under tense conditions. However nice that is, my point remains that more QBs pass the eye test in year 1 than do pass the formal exams that are the inevitable 2nd and 3rd years where the coverages tighten and the have to do more themselves to win games. Tannehill's done a great job of not messing up, but he's not making plays as much as he is doing the right things.

There's a difference and in the 2nd year he'll be asked to step up. THAT will be the real test.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6780
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
SUG wrote:
Well, I've seen plenty of 2 - 3 & 4 yr NFL QBs that don't understand pressure.
Henne could not audible to save his life nor did he ever grasp adjusting blocking assignments.
I had to sit there screaming at my Tv "don't snap the ball yet moron, do you not see those guys
overloading the left side"
& Bam he'd get schalaked & fumble.

I was talking with Neidermeir the other day & we both welcome Indy or anybody else showing
Blitz against Tanney, bring it! He get's it & knows he needs to unload the ball to his Hot Route.

I haven't seen a rookie QB do that in Mia since the Great one 15 - 18 yrs ago.

As for Tanney hitting his ceiling .... I just don't see that yet, he's only been a starting QB for a
total of like 2 yrs or some ridunculously small amount.
Kid has a arseload of time to continue growing.

I have to ask myself just how much of the Mia Off playbook has been installed ...?
Cause you just wait till we have about 3 Brian Hartlines (route runners with really good hands) out there
swaping from X - Y OR Z routes after they break the huddle & before the snap based on
Tanney making a good read.

What does worry me is that he continue to improve his decision making.
Yeah he'll hit a few gms where
he gets his "chops handed back to him" like a playoff gm.
That's all part of the learning process, hell that front side hit he took in the injury was completely his fault, unecesary.

I can't remember the last time I felt this good about a QB in Mia, he's better than anything the past
15 yrs, that's real progress in my book.

sug


Well, my point was that we haven't seen any type of a threshold yet. We haven't seen him hit that first plateau but we will. At some point--probably next year--he'll start facing blitz' and pressure that are more effective at taking away his bail-out option.

My point was two-fold:

1) Tannehill has looked great but so have most other 1st-round QBs in the last 5 years during their rookie campaigns. I would even say that Henne had most of us swayed towards thinking he had good potential. Remember that garbage time in Arizona where he got his first snaps? Kind of ironic, huh? Wink

2.) The proof is in the pudding when it comes to those 2nd and 3rd years when the QB is asked to do more and is facing more intense defenses who are going to understand where he wants to go under pressure. Tannehill's going to struggle moving forward more than he is now. He's ahead of the curve for a lot of reasons (some he's responsible for, some he's not) but his biggest challenges are ahead of him.


I definitely think Tannehill has showed something extra in terms of his ability to stay poised and to deliver good passes under tense conditions. However nice that is, my point remains that more QBs pass the eye test in year 1 than do pass the formal exams that are the inevitable 2nd and 3rd years where the coverages tighten and the have to do more themselves to win games. Tannehill's done a great job of not messing up, but he's not making plays as much as he is doing the right things.

There's a difference and in the 2nd year he'll be asked to step up. THAT will be the real test.


I agree with this.
And I think that Ova makes a good point in that a reasonable benchmark is hitting that
250 yd mark/gm on a consistent basis.

I don't believe were at that crossroad yet but i think we all agree this will take some time.

sug
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WaterBear56


Joined: 26 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UPDATED, this one was a horrible game. All I want right now is for Tanny to put up 3 TD's and 300 yards on Buffalo for a W.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, at least he's talking about and explaining the reads he's making and progressions he's following in his post-game comments. I'm not sure Henne ever did those things at all, let alone as a rookie. Laughing

Tannehill even indicated that he was throwing the ball towards Fasano on his 2nd pick to try and draw a flag because "the guy was hugging him." I mean, every good QB knows that drawing flags is part of the game. I'm sure the coaches have told him not to be afraid of drawing penalties like that but obviously flirting with INTs is not the idea. Nothing he can't learn from and polish up.

Bad day all around but it seemed to be more bad mojo than anything. We basically saw the same Ryan Tannehill we have all year but unfortunately things went awry and he wound up with 3 INTs by afternoon's end.

Not good, but at least we're not shaking our heads here. It's was definitely the same guy out there which is somehow comforting. He still looked poised. His mechanics still looked good. He still climbed the pocket. He still threw accurate balls. He just missed a LB that "made a good play" according to Tannehill and he tried to be clever and call an audible on a 3rd and short which blew up in his face.

I didn't see anything from Tannehill that I thought was terminal. Lousy game.

It happens.
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bpastermack


Joined: 17 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
Well, at least he's talking about and explaining the reads he's making and progressions he's following in his post-game comments. I'm not sure Henne ever did those things at all, let alone as a rookie. Laughing

Tannehill even indicated that he was throwing the ball towards Fasano on his 2nd pick to try and draw a flag because "the guy was hugging him." I mean, every good QB knows that drawing flags is part of the game. I'm sure the coaches have told him not to be afraid of drawing penalties like that but obviously flirting with INTs is not the idea. Nothing he can't learn from and polish up.

Bad day all around but it seemed to be more bad mojo than anything. We basically saw the same Ryan Tannehill we have all year but unfortunately things went awry and he wound up with 3 INTs by afternoon's end.

Not good, but at least we're not shaking our heads here. It's was definitely the same guy out there which is somehow comforting. He still looked poised. His mechanics still looked good. He still climbed the pocket. He still threw accurate balls. He just missed a LB that "made a good play" according to Tannehill and he tried to be clever and call an audible on a 3rd and short which blew up in his face.

I didn't see anything from Tannehill that I thought was terminal. Lousy game.

It happens.


And that announcer was an idiot. That was a perfectly legal play.... Seriously? Since when is it perfectly legal to be grabbing a receivers jersey while he is trying to turn around and then pull him into you while the ball is in the air so you can't get to it??? Dumbest announcer moment of the game right there. That was one of the most clear pass interference penalties I have seen in quite some time. But hey, the guy got away with it. I guess that's part of the game, but I bet if Tom Brady was throwing that pass he wouldn't have gotten away with it.
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DOLFAN016


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
phinmun wrote:
Well, at least he's talking about and explaining the reads he's making and progressions he's following in his post-game comments. I'm not sure Henne ever did those things at all, let alone as a rookie. Laughing

Tannehill even indicated that he was throwing the ball towards Fasano on his 2nd pick to try and draw a flag because "the guy was hugging him." I mean, every good QB knows that drawing flags is part of the game. I'm sure the coaches have told him not to be afraid of drawing penalties like that but obviously flirting with INTs is not the idea. Nothing he can't learn from and polish up.

Bad day all around but it seemed to be more bad mojo than anything. We basically saw the same Ryan Tannehill we have all year but unfortunately things went awry and he wound up with 3 INTs by afternoon's end.

Not good, but at least we're not shaking our heads here. It's was definitely the same guy out there which is somehow comforting. He still looked poised. His mechanics still looked good. He still climbed the pocket. He still threw accurate balls. He just missed a LB that "made a good play" according to Tannehill and he tried to be clever and call an audible on a 3rd and short which blew up in his face.

I didn't see anything from Tannehill that I thought was terminal. Lousy game.

It happens.


And that announcer was an idiot. That was a perfectly legal play.... Seriously? Since when is it perfectly legal to be grabbing a receivers jersey while he is trying to turn around and then pull him into you while the ball is in the air so you can't get to it??? Dumbest announcer moment of the game right there. That was one of the most clear pass interference penalties I have seen in quite some time. But hey, the guy got away with it. I guess that's part of the game, but I bet if Tom Brady was throwing that pass he wouldn't have gotten away with it.


I was thinking the exact same thing when he said that. It doesn't matter the distance of the route. The fact is the LB was smothering Fasano while the ball was in the air. That right there folks in a penalty nine times out of ten. Unfortunately for Tanny and the Fins, we got the short end of the stick. Hopefully we have a bounce back game this week and show that we are at least better than the Bills.
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ovaw8lover


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a bad game all around. Luck has also had a bad game. It happens. The jury is still out on Tanney at this point. I know most of you continue to list the differences between he and Henne but I see more similarities then most of you, such as the dink and dunk passes and the lack of throwing touchdowns. I will continue to reserve judgment. I also know many of us did not want to judge Henne until we had better weapons around him. Here we are again, new QB, lack of receiving help. I see more similarities than most.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovaw8lover wrote:
It was a bad game all around. Luck has also had a bad game. It happens. The jury is still out on Tanney at this point. I know most of you continue to list the differences between he and Henne but I see more similarities then most of you, such as the dink and dunk passes and the lack of throwing touchdowns. I will continue to reserve judgment. I also know many of us did not want to judge Henne until we had better weapons around him. Here we are again, new QB, lack of receiving help. I see more similarities than most.


It doesn't matter who the student is. It's all about the teacher. We're a product of where we come from and what we're taught to think and believe. Heck, we're even taught our sense of responsibility and respect.

Or do you think that some of these guys take a magic pill on draft day and some don't? I don't believe that. I think these guys are a reflection of who's coaching them. I think Henne had as much potential as Tannehill.

The only thing that ever mattered with Henne (a great college QB) was that he NEVER had a quality coach to guide his development. He never got better. He wasn't bad when he started but he never developed under Tony Sparano, Paul Pasqualoni and David Lee.

Tannehill is being coached and taught. We can already see the differences in his performance from week 1 to today. His familiarity with offense. His ease in the pocket. Heck, he's already making reads across the field and he's a rookie.

He might not win a Super Bowl or even play NFL Football for a decade but he's developing and that's something Henne was never given the chance to do.
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Clutch


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovaw8lover wrote:
It was a bad game all around. Luck has also had a bad game. It happens. The jury is still out on Tanney at this point. I know most of you continue to list the differences between he and Henne but I see more similarities then most of you, such as the dink and dunk passes and the lack of throwing touchdowns. I will continue to reserve judgment. I also know many of us did not want to judge Henne until we had better weapons around him. Here we are again, new QB, lack of receiving help. I see more similarities than most.


It's night and day to me. Rt goes through his progressions systematically, not like the robot who was a one maybe two look, run guy.

Touch, RT has it henne likes the bullet every time.

Ball placement. Not even close here.

RT seems to engage with his teammates, henne sat by himself.

Not sure what I have missed but after watching henne the other night I don't see the comparison.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see no similarities between Henne and Tannyhill. None. Not even close?? I'm not saying Tannyhill is a sure fire better than Henne QB cause you never know what could happen, but they are not really similar at all. Maybe you could say neither threw the most perfect deep ball? Tannyhill has no problems with touch, Tannyhill is not a statue in the pocket (although since his knee injury he has been a little more so. Tannyhill goes through his progressions, is a leader on the team, and he makes the line calls and all his reads. Any dink and dunk you see is all part of the west coast offense. But I think Tanny throws the ball all over the field way more than Henne ever did. And Henne was almost as slow as Marino. These guys are so different I'm not sure why they are being compared? Why don't we start comparing Mike Vick to Henne while we are at it?
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