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eagles101
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
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 Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | Quote: | | Also, you fail to account for system. Babin sucked for the Eagles when he was here the first time. So did Clemons. Both were poor schematic fits and were able to find their niche the next place they went. |
You fail to account for the coaching staff being unable to develop talent on the roster. From Clemons, to Gocong, to Brandon Gibson, to Danny Amendola, to Joe Mays, the list goes on and on. |
players going on to other teams to have success isnt directly related to how good we are at developing talent. the system a player is in can completely change how good they are.
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baconrad3
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 4597
Location: Tempe, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| killdawabbit wrote: | | baconrad3 wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | TheKingDP wrote: | | Earl Thomas is not a hindsight pick. It was the correct pick at the time. Brandon Graham never was the correct pick. The Eagles outsmarted themselves once again. |
Perhaps you'd care to explain this?
Could it be that the Eagles were rebuilding their defensive line at the time? They had Trent Cole and...Daryl Tapp and Juqua Parker...
Perhaps Graham was undersized? 260+ lbs...pretty standard sized for an NFL DE.
Perhaps it was his NCAA leading TFLs?
Maybe it was him being a team captain and respected by his teammates?
Perhaps it was him standing out every time Michigan played that year?
Now wait. I know! It was his skillset fitting the mold of a classic 4-3 LDE.
| Quote: | | Nate Allen was another horrible pick. There was huge DE depth in the 2010 draft. We knew this before the draft even occured. Everyone knew Nate Allen was a question mark physically. Everyone knew Earl Thomas was not. |
Neither were considered really physical....but Nate is as soft as they come. Thomas was and has been really good in run support.
What huge DE depth? You must not remember that draft well.
Allen was also considered more physical than Earl coming out. Watch video of him @ Texas. He was primarily an ankle tackler.
| Quote: | | Reaching on an undersized DE in DTN in Round 3, who played a grand total of ZERO meaningful snaps before being released while there are 5 players in the NEXT NINE DRAFT PICKS who are major contributors on teams is not called "having the benefit of hindsight", its called blowing the friggin draft. Especially when that player you reached on contributes absolutely nothing to the team before being released. Jaiquan Jarrett anyone? |
What's interesting is how intriguing people found DTN at first. His video from Washington was impressive. And he was 260+ lbs. Not undersized. He was a miss. It happens...A LOT in the draft.
Also, you fail to account for system. Babin sucked for the Eagles when he was here the first time. So did Clemons. Both were poor schematic fits and were able to find their niche the next place they went. The Eagles changed the system, brought Babin back, and wala! He puts up an absurd number of sacks. Amazing isn't it?
You are, without question, the king of hindsight. All your posts are completely based on it. |
 the bolded.... |
It's 100% true.
Allen wasn't considered a "physical" guy, but Thomas was an ankle tackler. He looked like Asante Samuel trying to play safety. Truthfully, I though he might be better of switching to CB in the NFL. |
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Remixxxxxxx
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 10032
Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| killdawabbit wrote: | | Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | Quote: | | Also, you fail to account for system. Babin sucked for the Eagles when he was here the first time. So did Clemons. Both were poor schematic fits and were able to find their niche the next place they went. |
You fail to account for the coaching staff being unable to develop talent on the roster. From Clemons, to Gocong, to Brandon Gibson, to Danny Amendola, to Joe Mays, the list goes on and on. |
You want to explain how that relates? |
More directly towards Clemons as Babin wasn't a drafted talent. We're always blaming the schemes or the matchups, but year after year we draft players who aren't very good here and they go to other teams and develop into solid starting options.
Maybe it's time we say the staff can not develop talent. We get rid of the good players, and keep the bad players on the roster[Chad Hall, for example].
There has to come a point in which everyone stops blaming the schemes we're running[just seems like an easy out to me] and starts looking at why we can not develop these players, who go on to have major success on other teams.
It's time to stop making excuses like "WELL HE JUST SUCKED HERE BECAUSE THE SCHEME" and start giving blame where it's due, and that's the inability to develop talent on the roster. That's why we're always signing these bum free agents to try to fill the void left by the inability to develop anyone.
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marky_b27
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 17043
Location: Nottingham, England
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | It's time to stop making excuses like "WELL HE JUST SUCKED HERE BECAUSE THE SCHEME" and start giving blame where it's due, and that's the inability to develop talent on the roster. That's why we're always signing these bum free agents to try to fill the void left by the inability to develop anyone. |
Yeh, we can't adapt our schemes to fit our players strengths constantly. That's why we've been so inconsistent.
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Jroc04
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 8992
Location: South Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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We didn't draft Chris Clemons.
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Remixxxxxxx
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
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Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Jroc04 wrote: | | We didn't draft Chris Clemons. |
yeah, you're right. That's my fault, the point is still valid though. He was bounced from team to team for two years, and I forgot he played for Oakland.
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ninjapirate
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 28440
Location: Vegas
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | Jroc04 wrote: | | We didn't draft Chris Clemons. |
yeah, you're right. That's my fault, the point is still valid though. He was bounced from team to team for two years, and I forgot he played for Oakland. |
He was good in oakland so the bad scheme fit is actually a good argument with him.
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Jroc04
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 8992
Location: South Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | Jroc04 wrote: | | We didn't draft Chris Clemons. |
yeah, you're right. That's my fault, the point is still valid though. He was bounced from team to team for two years, and I forgot he played for Oakland. |
He was in Washington first. I didn't mean to disrupt the point. I honestly haven't even read the discussion. Carry on.
I'll say that styles dictate though. It's like basketball with coaches. In LA, Phil's triangle offense was a juggernaut. Enter Brown's Princeton offense and it doesn't work as well. Coaches should have a philosophy, find players that suit their thinking. But shouldn't pigeon-hole themselves when it comes to players.
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| 808 wrote: | | Jroc offers a voice of reason, and that's why I care about him so much. |
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Remixxxxxxx
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 10032
Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ninjapirate wrote: | | Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | Jroc04 wrote: | | We didn't draft Chris Clemons. |
yeah, you're right. That's my fault, the point is still valid though. He was bounced from team to team for two years, and I forgot he played for Oakland. |
He was good in oakland so the bad scheme fit is actually a good argument with him. |
Weren't we running the same scheme that Oakland was when Clemons first got here?
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RainbowCarebear
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 22764
Location: Avenging his brother by slaying three of Prince Rhaegar's bannermen and later Rodrik Greyjoy
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | ninjapirate wrote: | | Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | Jroc04 wrote: | | We didn't draft Chris Clemons. |
yeah, you're right. That's my fault, the point is still valid though. He was bounced from team to team for two years, and I forgot he played for Oakland. |
He was good in oakland so the bad scheme fit is actually a good argument with him. |
Weren't we running the same scheme that Oakland was when Clemons first got here? |
Wasn't it '06 Jim went to the 2-gap? Also I think Clemons was brought in to be a situation Pass Rusher
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"Of gold and silver and gemstones, it had none; bronze and iron were the metals of winter"
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"These are northmen, Uncle. The north remembers." |
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TheKingDP
Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 561
Location: illadelph
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| killdawabbit wrote: | | TheKingDP wrote: | | Earl Thomas is not a hindsight pick. It was the correct pick at the time. Brandon Graham never was the correct pick. The Eagles outsmarted themselves once again. |
Perhaps you'd care to explain this?
Could it be that the Eagles were rebuilding their defensive line at the time? They had Trent Cole and...Daryl Tapp and Juqua Parker...
Perhaps Graham was undersized? 260+ lbs...pretty standard sized for an NFL DE.
Perhaps it was his NCAA leading TFLs?
Maybe it was him being a team captain and respected by his teammates?
Perhaps it was him standing out every time Michigan played that year?
Now wait. I know! It was his skillset fitting the mold of a classic 4-3 LDE.
| Quote: | | Nate Allen was another horrible pick. There was huge DE depth in the 2010 draft. We knew this before the draft even occured. Everyone knew Nate Allen was a question mark physically. Everyone knew Earl Thomas was not. |
What huge DE depth? You must not remember that draft well.
Allen was also considered more physical than Earl coming out. Watch video of him @ Texas. He was primarily an ankle tackler.
| Quote: | | Reaching on an undersized DE in DTN in Round 3, who played a grand total of ZERO meaningful snaps before being released while there are 5 players in the NEXT NINE DRAFT PICKS who are major contributors on teams is not called "having the benefit of hindsight", its called blowing the friggin draft. Especially when that player you reached on contributes absolutely nothing to the team before being released. Jaiquan Jarrett anyone? |
What's interesting is how intriguing people found DTN at first. His video from Washington was impressive. And he was 260+ lbs. Not undersized. He was a miss. It happens...A LOT in the draft.
Also, you fail to account for system. Babin sucked for the Eagles when he was here the first time. So did Clemons. Both were poor schematic fits and were able to find their niche the next place they went. The Eagles changed the system, brought Babin back, and wala! He puts up an absurd number of sacks. Amazing isn't it?
You are, without question, the king of hindsight. All your posts are completely based on it. |
Brandon Graham is 6'2" 260 lbs. He's an undersized DE. Get it through your head. He was a bust from the start.
BTW, we still don't have any safeties. 2 blown 2nd round picks, 0 safeties on the roster. |
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eagles101
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 5997
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| TheKingDP wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | TheKingDP wrote: | | Earl Thomas is not a hindsight pick. It was the correct pick at the time. Brandon Graham never was the correct pick. The Eagles outsmarted themselves once again. |
Perhaps you'd care to explain this?
Could it be that the Eagles were rebuilding their defensive line at the time? They had Trent Cole and...Daryl Tapp and Juqua Parker...
Perhaps Graham was undersized? 260+ lbs...pretty standard sized for an NFL DE.
Perhaps it was his NCAA leading TFLs?
Maybe it was him being a team captain and respected by his teammates?
Perhaps it was him standing out every time Michigan played that year?
Now wait. I know! It was his skillset fitting the mold of a classic 4-3 LDE.
| Quote: | | Nate Allen was another horrible pick. There was huge DE depth in the 2010 draft. We knew this before the draft even occured. Everyone knew Nate Allen was a question mark physically. Everyone knew Earl Thomas was not. |
What huge DE depth? You must not remember that draft well.
Allen was also considered more physical than Earl coming out. Watch video of him @ Texas. He was primarily an ankle tackler.
| Quote: | | Reaching on an undersized DE in DTN in Round 3, who played a grand total of ZERO meaningful snaps before being released while there are 5 players in the NEXT NINE DRAFT PICKS who are major contributors on teams is not called "having the benefit of hindsight", its called blowing the friggin draft. Especially when that player you reached on contributes absolutely nothing to the team before being released. Jaiquan Jarrett anyone? |
What's interesting is how intriguing people found DTN at first. His video from Washington was impressive. And he was 260+ lbs. Not undersized. He was a miss. It happens...A LOT in the draft.
Also, you fail to account for system. Babin sucked for the Eagles when he was here the first time. So did Clemons. Both were poor schematic fits and were able to find their niche the next place they went. The Eagles changed the system, brought Babin back, and wala! He puts up an absurd number of sacks. Amazing isn't it?
You are, without question, the king of hindsight. All your posts are completely based on it. |
Brandon Graham is 6'2" 260 lbs. He's an undersized DE. Get it through your head. He was a bust from the start.
BTW, we still don't have any safeties. 2 blown 2nd round picks, 0 safeties on the roster. |
lucky hes not 6'1 268.....then he would be a HUGE BUST...like that joke of a DE dwight freeney.
_________________
props to deadpulse
| THE PACK MAN wrote: |
Im not a homer, I said we would lose a game last year when all the analysts predicted us to go 16-0 halfway through the year. |
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killdawabbit
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 5581
Location: Somewhere you're not.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| TheKingDP wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | | TheKingDP wrote: | | Earl Thomas is not a hindsight pick. It was the correct pick at the time. Brandon Graham never was the correct pick. The Eagles outsmarted themselves once again. |
Perhaps you'd care to explain this?
Could it be that the Eagles were rebuilding their defensive line at the time? They had Trent Cole and...Daryl Tapp and Juqua Parker...
Perhaps Graham was undersized? 260+ lbs...pretty standard sized for an NFL DE.
Perhaps it was his NCAA leading TFLs?
Maybe it was him being a team captain and respected by his teammates?
Perhaps it was him standing out every time Michigan played that year?
Now wait. I know! It was his skillset fitting the mold of a classic 4-3 LDE.
| Quote: | | Nate Allen was another horrible pick. There was huge DE depth in the 2010 draft. We knew this before the draft even occured. Everyone knew Nate Allen was a question mark physically. Everyone knew Earl Thomas was not. |
What huge DE depth? You must not remember that draft well.
Allen was also considered more physical than Earl coming out. Watch video of him @ Texas. He was primarily an ankle tackler.
| Quote: | | Reaching on an undersized DE in DTN in Round 3, who played a grand total of ZERO meaningful snaps before being released while there are 5 players in the NEXT NINE DRAFT PICKS who are major contributors on teams is not called "having the benefit of hindsight", its called blowing the friggin draft. Especially when that player you reached on contributes absolutely nothing to the team before being released. Jaiquan Jarrett anyone? |
What's interesting is how intriguing people found DTN at first. His video from Washington was impressive. And he was 260+ lbs. Not undersized. He was a miss. It happens...A LOT in the draft.
Also, you fail to account for system. Babin sucked for the Eagles when he was here the first time. So did Clemons. Both were poor schematic fits and were able to find their niche the next place they went. The Eagles changed the system, brought Babin back, and wala! He puts up an absurd number of sacks. Amazing isn't it?
You are, without question, the king of hindsight. All your posts are completely based on it. |
Brandon Graham is 6'2" 260 lbs. He's an undersized DE. Get it through your head. He was a bust from the start.
BTW, we still don't have any safeties. 2 blown 2nd round picks, 0 safeties on the roster. |
Look at 4-3 DEs around the NFL. 260-270 lbs is pretty standard...
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Phire
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 39501
Location: #championchip 2012 HoF
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's pretty obvious whenever Graham checks into the game something good happens.
He looked lightning fast on that first Romo sack.
Totally clowned the RT.
Probably due to having fresh legs.
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 | theuntouchable wrote: | | Think about this phire. I am the real chow. |
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RainbowCarebear
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 22764
Location: Avenging his brother by slaying three of Prince Rhaegar's bannermen and later Rodrik Greyjoy
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Phire wrote: | | Totally clowned the RT. |
Free is doing that ón his own
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"Of gold and silver and gemstones, it had none; bronze and iron were the metals of winter"
"He is part of you, Robb. To fear him is to fear you."
"These are northmen, Uncle. The north remembers." |
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