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HighHopes
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
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 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:41 am Post subject: |
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^^That makes no sense...
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TearsOfPurple
Joined: 17 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Report: Vikings don't believe in QB Webb
| Quote: | According to ESPN 1500 Twin Cities, "no one who matters at Winter Park" believes backup Joe Webb has a chance to be the long-term solution at quarterback.
There's no chance that Webb will be given a look in the short-term, either, as the move would crush Christian Ponder's confidence and raise questions about his future. "We have (made changes) and we're hoping for immediate results," OC Bill Musgrave said of his struggling passing attack. "We really are. This has been a good process for us to go through as coaches and players because we all take accountability." |
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5857/joe-webb
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milanb
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| TearsOfPurple wrote: | Report: Vikings don't believe in QB Webb
| Quote: | According to ESPN 1500 Twin Cities, "no one who matters at Winter Park" believes backup Joe Webb has a chance to be the long-term solution at quarterback.
There's no chance that Webb will be given a look in the short-term, either, as the move would crush Christian Ponder's confidence and raise questions about his future. "We have (made changes) and we're hoping for immediate results," OC Bill Musgrave said of his struggling passing attack. "We really are. This has been a good process for us to go through as coaches and players because we all take accountability." |
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5857/joe-webb |
Yeah, I read that.
I'm not sure how Pelissero can claim to know what everyone in the Vikings organization "believes".
The rest of the article is pretty funny. The scout that's saying the Vikings should stick with Ponder isn't exactly heaping a ton of praise on him.
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twslhs20
Joined: 28 Feb 2008
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Location: Where the true depth of one's soul doesn't resonate with the world
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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a QB change means admitting you made a mistake taking him.
No ones is going to do that and risk getting fired.
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| twslhs20 wrote: | a QB change means admitting you made a mistake taking him.
No ones is going to do that and risk getting fired. |
If a QB change can save a job, then yes, I believe they would make a QB change if they felt it was best for the team. I dont think Joe Webb can be anymore effective than Ponder as a passer. Maybe as a runner, sure, Webb is on an entirely different level. |
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Kellerman
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| milanb wrote: | | TearsOfPurple wrote: | Report: Vikings don't believe in QB Webb
| Quote: | According to ESPN 1500 Twin Cities, "no one who matters at Winter Park" believes backup Joe Webb has a chance to be the long-term solution at quarterback.
There's no chance that Webb will be given a look in the short-term, either, as the move would crush Christian Ponder's confidence and raise questions about his future. "We have (made changes) and we're hoping for immediate results," OC Bill Musgrave said of his struggling passing attack. "We really are. This has been a good process for us to go through as coaches and players because we all take accountability." |
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5857/joe-webb |
Yeah, I read that.
I'm not sure how Pelissero can claim to know what everyone in the Vikings organization "believes". |
Don't see why his report would contradict most of what we know. Webb was picked in the 6th round as a wide-reciever project, then Childress changes his mind and puts him at QB. He starts for in a injured Favre two games, but the Vikings elect to reach on Ponder, feeling they don't have the QBOTF on the roster. 2011 the Blazer package, and filling in for an injured Ponder. In between we have further attempts to try him out at WR, which is unsuccesful. In 2012, there are reports that Webb was being pushed pretty hard by the other QB's on the roster, and he didn't really set the world on fire in the pre-season.
Now Ponder has several horrible games, and there still isn't even the slightest hint of Webb getting a shot. You can question whether it is the correct judgement, but it does seem that no-one that matters in the Vikings organization thinks Webb is a potential starting QB.
I tend to agree with that. If Ponder fails, I think we're back to square one.
Maybe stretch this a few years, then get Chip Kelly and that Mariota kid.
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twslhs20
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| vikingsrule wrote: | | twslhs20 wrote: | a QB change means admitting you made a mistake taking him.
No ones is going to do that and risk getting fired. |
If a QB change can save a job, then yes, I believe they would make a QB change if they felt it was best for the team. I dont think Joe Webb can be anymore effective than Ponder as a passer. Maybe as a runner, sure, Webb is on an entirely different level. |
I agree. Webb doesn't deserve a roster spot as a QB. Make him a Brad Smith hybrid player.
I think the desperation of a potential lockout forced their hands in drafting Ponder. Now you have a guy thats responsible for the development of Matt Ryan and Matt Schuab. Yet, he refuses to open up the playbook, and let him air it out. I think that says a lot about Ponder as a QB. The staff doesn't trust him. Our opponents don't see him as a threat. I think it just tells the tale of how much trouble we really are in.
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milanb
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Kellerman wrote: | | milanb wrote: | | TearsOfPurple wrote: | Report: Vikings don't believe in QB Webb
| Quote: | According to ESPN 1500 Twin Cities, "no one who matters at Winter Park" believes backup Joe Webb has a chance to be the long-term solution at quarterback.
There's no chance that Webb will be given a look in the short-term, either, as the move would crush Christian Ponder's confidence and raise questions about his future. "We have (made changes) and we're hoping for immediate results," OC Bill Musgrave said of his struggling passing attack. "We really are. This has been a good process for us to go through as coaches and players because we all take accountability." |
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5857/joe-webb |
Yeah, I read that.
I'm not sure how Pelissero can claim to know what everyone in the Vikings organization "believes". |
Don't see why his report would contradict most of what we know. Webb was picked in the 6th round as a wide-reciever project, then Childress changes his mind and puts him at QB. He starts for in a injured Favre two games, but the Vikings elect to reach on Ponder, feeling they don't have the QBOTF on the roster. 2011 the Blazer package, and filling in for an injured Ponder. In between we have further attempts to try him out at WR, which is unsuccesful. In 2012, there are reports that Webb was being pushed pretty hard by the other QB's on the roster, and he didn't really set the world on fire in the pre-season.
Now Ponder has several horrible games, and there still isn't even the slightest hint of Webb getting a shot. You can question whether it is the correct judgement, but it does seem that no-one that matters in the Vikings organization thinks Webb is a potential starting QB.
I tend to agree with that. If Ponder fails, I think we're back to square one.
Maybe stretch this a few years, then get Chip Kelly and that Mariota kid. |
My point was: we don't know anything in terms of what everyone in the Vikings organization truly "believes" about Ponder or Webb, and neither does Tom Pelissero. No one in the organization is ever going to say anything to the media on or off the record that calls into question Ponder's status as the starting QB unless and until they are ready to make the switch.
The fact of the matter is that Vikings are not going to make a QB switch until the team is effectively out of the playoff hunt, if they do it at all this year. Reading any more into the situation, one way or the other, is way premature.
In any event, if you really believe that McLoed Bethel-Thompson has somehow surpassed Joe Webb in the pecking order, then why isn't MBT the back-up? MBT is not even being dressed for the games, and Webb is even taking half the snaps for the scout team.
If the Vikings have really and truly given up on Webb then why didn't they just quietly trade Webb and keep Sage as a veteran backup? Or for that matter why didn't they sign a more capable veteran than Sage in the off season?
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Lil Uno
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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I don't like Webb much in an extended role but he is good for a spark to the offense. Again, I think the Vikings should use Webb in the redzone like the 9ers do Kaepernick. Let Webb run a few plays of the read option. The 9ers redzone has taken a bump in production since installing the package.
I feel the team should have left Webb at WR though. He actually showed potential at WR when he was at UAB. A 6'4, 220 WR with 4.5 speed and an insane vertical sounds nice right about now.
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Kellerman
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| milanb wrote: | | Kellerman wrote: | | milanb wrote: | | TearsOfPurple wrote: | Report: Vikings don't believe in QB Webb
| Quote: | According to ESPN 1500 Twin Cities, "no one who matters at Winter Park" believes backup Joe Webb has a chance to be the long-term solution at quarterback.
There's no chance that Webb will be given a look in the short-term, either, as the move would crush Christian Ponder's confidence and raise questions about his future. "We have (made changes) and we're hoping for immediate results," OC Bill Musgrave said of his struggling passing attack. "We really are. This has been a good process for us to go through as coaches and players because we all take accountability." |
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5857/joe-webb |
Yeah, I read that.
I'm not sure how Pelissero can claim to know what everyone in the Vikings organization "believes". |
Don't see why his report would contradict most of what we know. Webb was picked in the 6th round as a wide-reciever project, then Childress changes his mind and puts him at QB. He starts for in a injured Favre two games, but the Vikings elect to reach on Ponder, feeling they don't have the QBOTF on the roster. 2011 the Blazer package, and filling in for an injured Ponder. In between we have further attempts to try him out at WR, which is unsuccesful. In 2012, there are reports that Webb was being pushed pretty hard by the other QB's on the roster, and he didn't really set the world on fire in the pre-season.
Now Ponder has several horrible games, and there still isn't even the slightest hint of Webb getting a shot. You can question whether it is the correct judgement, but it does seem that no-one that matters in the Vikings organization thinks Webb is a potential starting QB.
I tend to agree with that. If Ponder fails, I think we're back to square one.
Maybe stretch this a few years, then get Chip Kelly and that Mariota kid. |
My point was: we don't know anything in terms of what everyone in the Vikings organization truly "believes" about Ponder or Webb, and neither does Tom Pelissero. No one in the organization is ever going to say anything to the media on or off the record that calls into question Ponder's status as the starting QB unless and until they are ready to make the switch.
The fact of the matter is that Vikings are not going to make a QB switch until the team is effectively out of the playoff hunt, if they do it at all this year. Reading any more into the situation, one way or the other, is way premature.
In any event, if you really believe that McLoed Bethel-Thompson has somehow surpassed Joe Webb in the pecking order, then why isn't MBT the back-up? MBT is not even being dressed for the games, and Webb is even taking half the snaps for the scout team.
If the Vikings have really and truly given up on Webb then why didn't they just quietly trade Webb and keep Sage as a veteran backup? Or for that matter why didn't they sign a more capable veteran than Sage in the off season? |
We certainely don't know anything, but I'm inclined to believe that someone who cover the Vikings all year long and who talks to the players and coaches (Pelissero in this case), can have at least some insight into the ''beliefs'' of the organization when it comes to their players. Like I illustrated, the moves the organization has made over the past few years seems to agree with him, i.e. that the Vikings don't regard Webb as a potentional starting QB. Maybe there's some people on the staff who do think that, but it appears that the people making the actual decisions don't.
As for MBT, I never said he passed Webb, what I was referring to is that the talk in the media this off-season was that Webb was in competition with MBT and Sage for the #2 spot, rather than seriously challenging Ponder in practice.
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PurpleMugen
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Kellerman wrote: | | As for MBT, I never said he passed Webb, what I was referring to is that the talk in the media this off-season was that Webb was in competition with MBT and Sage for the #2 spot, rather than seriously challenging Ponder in practice. |
My understanding is this competition was that way by design. Webb was not given a serious crack at the starting gig because the organization has invested too much in Ponder to allow an open competition (which is unfortunate because it is not in the best interest of the team's on-field success, not because Webb is better than Ponder per se but because competition brings out the best in all involved).
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Cantwin1
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| PurpleMugen wrote: | | Kellerman wrote: | | As for MBT, I never said he passed Webb, what I was referring to is that the talk in the media this off-season was that Webb was in competition with MBT and Sage for the #2 spot, rather than seriously challenging Ponder in practice. |
My understanding is this competition was that way by design. Webb was not given a serious crack at the starting gig because the organization has invested too much in Ponder to allow an open competition (which is unfortunate because it is not in the best interest of the team's on-field success, not because Webb is better than Ponder per se but because competition brings out the best in all involved). |
Or it could be because the FO gets to see Webb in practice every day and knows that he's not a starting caliber QB. Webb is good as a backup for us because he's so different from a typical QB. When teams game plan for him he's not nearly as successful. He can be a very good gimmick type QB, but that's about all I see from him. |
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Cantwin1
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| milanb wrote: | | Cantwin1 wrote: | | AQuintus wrote: | | this providence wrote: | | and it's one that should have been realized when both were drafted. |
To be fair, Webb was drafted to be a WR, and the team really, really, really should have stuck with that. |
No doubt. Let's not forget that Webb was nearly (should have been) cut before the season because he was playing so bad. Sage out played Webb by a large margin. I would be in favor of cutting Webb now and bringing Sage back. If the Vikes decide they need to make a change at QB I would go with Sage or MBT. Webb at QB does nothing for me as a QB, much like Tebow. Give Ponder the rest of the season and move on if he continues to suck, but there's nobody on the roster who gives me much hope for the future so we should be looking outside of our team be it draft or FA or trade. |
And now the Webb-bashing begins.
Let's forget what Joe Webb did on the road against playoff-calibre teams in December, after spending the entire year as 3rd string QB. The real measure of his ability is how he performed in preseason surrounded by a bunch of guys who were never going to make the team. |
Webb bashing? You must have missed the part where I said there's nobody on the roster who gives me much hope for the future... Why are you singling out Webb? I'm bashing all the QB's on the roster... |
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39492
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Cantwin1 wrote: | | PurpleMugen wrote: | | Kellerman wrote: | | As for MBT, I never said he passed Webb, what I was referring to is that the talk in the media this off-season was that Webb was in competition with MBT and Sage for the #2 spot, rather than seriously challenging Ponder in practice. |
My understanding is this competition was that way by design. Webb was not given a serious crack at the starting gig because the organization has invested too much in Ponder to allow an open competition (which is unfortunate because it is not in the best interest of the team's on-field success, not because Webb is better than Ponder per se but because competition brings out the best in all involved). |
Or it could be because the FO gets to see Webb in practice every day and knows that he's not a starting caliber QB. Webb is good as a backup for us because he's so different from a typical QB. When teams game plan for him he's not nearly as successful. He can be a very good gimmick type QB, but that's about all I see from him. |
That is largely how i see it. Webb is an effective QB when he can come in on occasion and maybe catch a team off guard, maybe get a spot start due to injury. Much like most gimmick QBs, once you develop game plans for them and play them consistently, they become completely irrelevant. I havent seen anything from Webb as a pure passer to suggest he isnt anything more than a gimmick QB.
Now dont get me wrong, I actually think Webb is the ideal type of backup Q. I dont expect my backup QB to come in and be completely sharp as a passer. However, its the element of being mobile and having a huge arm that can really catch a team off guard. Webb isnt starting material, but that doesnt mean he cant be a successful backup.
As it relates to Ponder, he hasnt yet shown to be a consistent passer but I think we have seen more from Ponder in terms of being a pure passer. I easily see more potential in Ponder as a starter than Webb, and that is why Ponder should remain as the starter. |
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Klomp
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:48 am Post subject: |
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Said it before, and I'll say it again. If we make a change, it will be for Bethel-Thompson, not Webb.
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