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The loss of Orakpo is affecting Kerrigan
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not an opinion it's a fact and we gave up just 23 points a game last year, if healthy, this d would have been the same as last years.

What does that mean?

Week 1: WIN
Week 2: WIN
Week 3: WIN
Week 4: WIN
Week 5: loss
Week 6: WIN
Week 7: WIN
Week 8: Loss
Week 9: Loss

You insert the healthy front 7 from the 2011 Washington redskins into the 2012 offense and surprisingly this team is 6-3 right now. Not 3-6!

How bout them apples? Wink Laughing
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21 ALL THE WAY


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
It's not an opinion it's a fact and we gave up just 23 points a game last year, if healthy, this d would have been the same as last years.

What does that mean?

Week 1: WIN
Week 2: WIN
Week 3: WIN
Week 4: WIN
Week 5: loss
Week 6: WIN
Week 7: WIN
Week 8: Loss
Week 9: Loss

You insert the healthy front 7 from the 2011 Washington redskins into the 2012 offense and surprisingly this team is 6-3 right now. Not 3-6!

How bout them apples? Wink Laughing


O now that you wanna incorporate a point about the D, the team would be actually be on board to surpass ur prediction of us not making the playoffs and having a record of 6-10 or something of that nature rite?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
It's not an opinion it's a fact and we gave up just 23 points a game last year, if healthy, this d would have been the same as last years.

What does that mean?

Week 1: WIN
Week 2: WIN
Week 3: WIN
Week 4: WIN
Week 5: loss
Week 6: WIN
Week 7: WIN
Week 8: Loss
Week 9: Loss

You insert the healthy front 7 from the 2011 Washington redskins into the 2012 offense and surprisingly this team is 6-3 right now. Not 3-6!

How bout them apples? Wink Laughing


O now that you wanna incorporate a point about the D, the team would be actually be on board to surpass ur prediction of us not making the playoffs and having a record of 6-10 or something of that nature rite?
ive been incorporating points about the D for pages my friend. That's what this whole topic has been about that I started. Confused

Actually it wouldn't be. We haven't hit most of the hard games of our schedule yet. I also have been totally suprised by the success of Griffin and our offense so fast this year, but I dont hide the fact that I was wrong about that. Unlike some who can't admit when they are wrong.

I could care less about a record prediction before the season. I said I think 6-10 but,I'd love to be proven wrong. I also didn't think the offense would be this good and I envisioned the defense being healthy,,which it hasn't been at all.
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brandonb2005


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
This shows what we always thought about Kerrigan, he's never gonna be that elite pass rusher. He'll probably be an elite LB, but not a pure pass rusher.


Everyone is entitled to their opinions but you guys kill me with these assumptions. It's his 2nd year in the NFL and 1st full off season. We are asking him to take over Rak's duties and be an elite pass rusher and he has never been doubled in the NFL or chipped or been shown extra attention until now. Remember this is only his 2nd season at OLB he's still learning to play the position.

I have been saying it for months for those who have been on the record saying Kerrigan will one day pass Rak and he is better then Rak. If I can recall Rak has been double teamed since his rookie year and he still produced enough to be an Pro-Bowl Alternate for two years.

I dont know if he will be elite (to early to tell) but once Rak comes back (if he can get healthy) his numbers will go up and they will be an elite tandem together. I dont believe RT's can handle Kerrigan one on one every play from what I have been seeing out of Kerrigan. He has a very strong bull rush and high motor. Once he incorporates a few counter moves he will be fine. But the lack of pressure since Rak's been going is real evident.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brandonb2005 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
This shows what we always thought about Kerrigan, he's never gonna be that elite pass rusher. He'll probably be an elite LB, but not a pure pass rusher.


Everyone is entitled to their opinions but you guys kill me with these assumptions. It's his 2nd year in the NFL and 1st full off season. We are asking him to take over Rak's duties and be an elite pass rusher and he has never been doubled in the NFL or chipped or been shown extra attention until now. Remember this is only his 2nd season at OLB he's still learning to play the position.

I have been saying it for months for those who have been on the record saying Kerrigan will one day pass Rak and he is better then Rak. If I can recall Rak has been double teamed since his rookie year and he still produced enough to be an Pro-Bowl Alternate for two years.

I dont know if he will be elite (to early to tell) but once Rak comes back (if he can get healthy) his numbers will go up and they will be an elite tandem together. I dont believe RT's can handle Kerrigan one on one every play from what I have been seeing out of Kerrigan. He has a very strong bull rush and high motor. Once he incorporates a few counter moves he will be fine. But the lack of pressure since Rak's been going is real evident.
totally agree Brandon and I can't stand those assumptions either, but it's the world we live in on the redskins forum where most over react.
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brandonb2005


Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
brandonb2005 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
This shows what we always thought about Kerrigan, he's never gonna be that elite pass rusher. He'll probably be an elite LB, but not a pure pass rusher.


Everyone is entitled to their opinions but you guys kill me with these assumptions. It's his 2nd year in the NFL and 1st full off season. We are asking him to take over Rak's duties and be an elite pass rusher and he has never been doubled in the NFL or chipped or been shown extra attention until now. Remember this is only his 2nd season at OLB he's still learning to play the position.

I have been saying it for months for those who have been on the record saying Kerrigan will one day pass Rak and he is better then Rak. If I can recall Rak has been double teamed since his rookie year and he still produced enough to be an Pro-Bowl Alternate for two years.

I dont know if he will be elite (to early to tell) but once Rak comes back (if he can get healthy) his numbers will go up and they will be an elite tandem together. I dont believe RT's can handle Kerrigan one on one every play from what I have been seeing out of Kerrigan. He has a very strong bull rush and high motor. Once he incorporates a few counter moves he will be fine. But the lack of pressure since Rak's been going is real evident.
totally agree Brandon and I can't stand those assumptions either, but it's the world we live in on the redskins forum where most over react.


Just now going through the rest of the thread and I agree wholeheartedly with you!

For those saying go back to a 4-3 that wouldn't be a smart move for two reason....

1) First the most obvious reason, you cant just say go back to the 4-3 because we no longer have 4-3 personnel. It took Mike and Bruce 3 years to get 3-4 personnel, and there still not done. A lot of players on the defensive side of the ball lost their jobs or was traded because they dint fit the scheme. Switching back to the 4-3 isn't going to help are problems for the plain and simple fact that its going to take another 3 years to re-tool the personnel back to a 4-3, which we don't have cap space or draft picks to do. Instead of getting better at the 3-4 with the tools that fit we would be taking steps back installing a new defenses and getting 3-4 players to believe in the 4-3, and that will take time and growing pains aka bottom of the ranks in defense. You know why most teams suck on defense or offense the 1st year its being installed?? Its because its takes time to grasp and master like a language. The first year Hass was here we sucked at the 3-4 because we didnt have players that fit the scheme, example: Andre Carter a rush 4-3 DE playing OLB (way out of position because he was to stiff, didn't poses any type of quick hitch athleticism, or foot speed to play the position). I may be wrong about this but we got him from San Fran basically because they were switching to a 3-4 and he couldnt play standing up, so he came to us to play in our 4-3. He played two years in our 3-4 if I'm correct, might have been one year. And he was horrible because he was a liability in the pass game.

2) With the league being a QB's/passing league now. The best way to confuse/pressure a offense or a QB is to run a 3-4 alignment. You can scheme and do so much with a 3-4 because its not your conventional base 4-3 defense (which IMO is easier to attack). Teams are not really running the ball a lot these days in the NFL so its no need to have 4 DL on the field. Instead a extra LB or Safety is used to help combat the pass and rush the passer, its better for match-up and pressuring a offense basically. Dont get me wrong some teams that still run a 4-3 (Bears, Panthers and the Gianst) still get great pressure, but its because they have great personnel on their fronts.

I wasn't a fan of the move at first, but I love it now because I seen what type of defense we can be when healthy with a competent secondary (last year, not this years). We was a top ten defense most of the year last year with two backup safeties playing frequently. Just goes to show how much we miss Carriker and Rak. We probably wouldn't even be having this conversation if those two are healthy.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brandonb2005 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
brandonb2005 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
This shows what we always thought about Kerrigan, he's never gonna be that elite pass rusher. He'll probably be an elite LB, but not a pure pass rusher.


Everyone is entitled to their opinions but you guys kill me with these assumptions. It's his 2nd year in the NFL and 1st full off season. We are asking him to take over Rak's duties and be an elite pass rusher and he has never been doubled in the NFL or chipped or been shown extra attention until now. Remember this is only his 2nd season at OLB he's still learning to play the position.

I have been saying it for months for those who have been on the record saying Kerrigan will one day pass Rak and he is better then Rak. If I can recall Rak has been double teamed since his rookie year and he still produced enough to be an Pro-Bowl Alternate for two years.

I dont know if he will be elite (to early to tell) but once Rak comes back (if he can get healthy) his numbers will go up and they will be an elite tandem together. I dont believe RT's can handle Kerrigan one on one every play from what I have been seeing out of Kerrigan. He has a very strong bull rush and high motor. Once he incorporates a few counter moves he will be fine. But the lack of pressure since Rak's been going is real evident.
totally agree Brandon and I can't stand those assumptions either, but it's the world we live in on the redskins forum where most over react.


Just now going through the rest of the thread and I agree wholeheartedly with you!

For those saying go back to a 4-3 that wouldn't be a smart move for two reason....

1) First the most obvious reason, you cant just say go back to the 4-3 because we no longer have 4-3 personnel. It took Mike and Bruce 3 years to get 3-4 personnel, and there still not done. A lot of players on the defensive side of the ball lost their jobs or was traded because they dint fit the scheme. Switching back to the 4-3 isn't going to help are problems for the plain and simple fact that its going to take another 3 years to re-tool the personnel back to a 4-3, which we don't have cap space or draft picks to do. Instead of getting better at the 3-4 with the tools that fit we would be taking steps back installing a new defenses and getting 3-4 players to believe in the 4-3, and that will take time and growing pains aka bottom of the ranks in defense. You know why most teams suck on defense or offense the 1st year its being installed?? Its because its takes time to grasp and master like a language. The first year Hass was here we sucked at the 3-4 because we didnt have players that fit the scheme, example: Andre Carter a rush 4-3 DE playing OLB (way out of position because he was to stiff, didn't poses any type of quick hitch athleticism, or foot speed to play the position). I may be wrong about this but we got him from San Fran basically because they were switching to a 3-4 and he couldnt play standing up, so he came to us to play in our 4-3. He played two years in our 3-4 if I'm correct, might have been one year. And he was horrible because he was a liability in the pass game.

2) With the league being a QB's/passing league now. The best way to confuse/pressure a offense or a QB is to run a 3-4 alignment. You can scheme and do so much with a 3-4 because its not your conventional base 4-3 defense (which IMO is easier to attack). Teams are not really running the ball a lot these days in the NFL so its no need to have 4 DL on the field. Instead a extra LB or Safety is used to help combat the pass and rush the passer, its better for match-up and pressuring a offense basically. Dont get me wrong some teams that still run a 4-3 (Bears, Panthers and the Gianst) still get great pressure, but its because they have great personnel on their fronts.

I wasn't a fan of the move at first, but I love it now because I seen what type of defense we can be when healthy with a competent secondary (last year, not this years). We was a top ten defense most of the year last year with two backup safeties playing frequently. Just goes to show how much we miss Carriker and Rak. We probably wouldn't even be having this conversation if those two are healthy.
Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turtle, go look up the stats for the defense the last five weeks of the 2011 season. In four of those games they gave up 30+ points. It was NOT a good defense.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
Turtle, go look up the stats for the defense the last five weeks of the 2011 season. In four of those games they gave up 30+ points. It was NOT a good defense.
turnovers played a key part in that. The defense often had a short field to defend because of mr Grossman, the turnover machine
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
Turtle, go look up the stats for the defense the last five weeks of the 2011 season. In four of those games they gave up 30+ points. It was NOT a good defense.
turnovers played a key part in that. The defense often had a short field to defend because of mr Grossman, the turnover machine


Lol keep telling yourself that. It's a bad defense. Bad playcalling. Bad technique. Bad players.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
Turtle, go look up the stats for the defense the last five weeks of the 2011 season. In four of those games they gave up 30+ points. It was NOT a good defense.
turnovers played a key part in that. The defense often had a short field to defend because of mr Grossman, the turnover machine


Lol keep telling yourself that. It's a bad defense. Bad playcalling. Bad technique. Bad players.
i will keep telling myself that and when we get Orakpo back, Meriweather back, Carriker back sign a few DBs and draft a few DBs high we will watch our D be top 15 next year again like it was last year. Wink
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And hire a new defensive coordinator.

My point was the defense was not and is not a good defense.

Also where is the Jarvis Jenkins we've heard everyone raving about? No where to be found. Can't even seem to get substantial playing time.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
And hire a new defensive coordinator.

My point was the defense was not and is not a good defense.

Also where is the Jarvis Jenkins we've heard everyone raving about? No where to be found. Can't even seem to get substantial playing time.
he's getting back into it, showing flashes. Remember he tore his acl? Experts say that's usually an injury that takes you over a year to fully recover from. He's also in his rookie year since last year was taken from him.

I don't get it at all. People ignore facts and have really unrealistic expectations. It's quite frustrating Mad
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Dro


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RT @PFF: Ryan Kerrigan averaged 7 QB disruptions per game with Brian Orakpo on field. Now averaging 3.1 since he went down.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dro wrote:
RT @PFF: Ryan Kerrigan averaged 7 QB disruptions per game with Brian Orakpo on field. Now averaging 3.1 since he went down.
thats because Orakpo is our best player in the front 7. He makes everyone's job easier because he's the only one who constantly commands double teams.
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