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BenchSanchez
Joined: 27 Jan 2012
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Location: New Jersey
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 Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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That's a shame.. Wish him the best.
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JerseyJet
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 121
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| quietjetsket wrote: | I would have problems with Mingo and Jordan if Jets were sitting that high.
Mingo offers nothing but speed and coverage. He prefers DE to OLB but it does not matter because he will need at least 2 pro seasonings to get him ready in either DE or OLB.
Jordan is not a good pass rusher at all. He lacks of strength and hand usage to fight OL. He has yet to prove that he has off edge speed. I estimate he will need 3 good seasonings to get ready.
Football talents are there for those guys but timing and result are the most pressing things for Jets. The way we see Rex Ryan use Aaron Maybin, I think Mingo and Jordan are waste of time.
Those comments are for now crap, of course. At the combine and on Pro Day, they will show everything they have during a strenuous test to find out how much time and skillset to be ready with pro coaching.
Aldon Smith already had upper body strength to handle OL so he definitely holds the highest regards that neither Mingo or Jordan can match off the college.
I am all in for Bjoern Werner. He is down to 256 from 275 to get rid of body fat. He does not lose any power but picks up quickness. He uses hands extremely well in shredding off blockers and pass deflecting. He is exactly OLB/DE hybrid Rex Ryan wants.
I would love me some Travis Long, Chase Thomas or Jamie Collins as a double dip. Maybe Travis Johnson out of San Jose State. He is undersize and maybe slow but he works hard to stay motors up all the time.
As for quarterback, Ryan Griffin out of Tulane or Sean Renfree out of Duke is my kind of qb of the future but Jets envision McElroy as their qb of the future. WTF? |
Bjoern Werner I think is going to be a beast. He can do it all. |
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Jamison.
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Posts: 7413
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| jetsfan4life51 wrote: | | While the versatility and coverage is nice, we NEED the better pass rusher when comparing any prospects. |
Then Bruce Irvin should've been your guy last year.
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KingOfTheHill84
Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 1006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: |
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I want our top 3 picks(unless we pick a QB) to all be impact players like Coples/Hill/Davis have been to an extent
Then in the later rounds I want depth, solid depth picks. Guys who can fill in during injuries and be effective for us
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rickyt31
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 4831
Location: HeAtlanta,Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'm updating the ranking list. Doing 2 positions at a time. I want to know who you think should be the top 5 3-4OLB's & top 5 3-4DE's ?
I found a old mock I did where I had us drafting Alfred Morris & Bruce Irvin.
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jetsfan4life51
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 30516
Location: lawn guy land
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Jamison. wrote: | | jetsfan4life51 wrote: | | While the versatility and coverage is nice, we NEED the better pass rusher when comparing any prospects. |
Then Bruce Irvin should've been your guy last year. |
Irvin is just like Maybin and Jones was by far the better prospect. The only thing you could say is he had speed over all the OLBs, not pass rush.
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Jamison.
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| jetsfan4life51 wrote: | | Jamison. wrote: | | jetsfan4life51 wrote: | | While the versatility and coverage is nice, we NEED the better pass rusher when comparing any prospects. |
Then Bruce Irvin should've been your guy last year. |
Irvin is just like Maybin and Jones was by far the better prospect. The only thing you could say is he had speed over all the OLBs, not pass rush. |
Jones by far the better prospect? Nooooo. You're wrong. Even according to you. You liked Jones as a 2nd Round Pick last year. And as the draft was a couple days away you were warming up to the "trade down" idea into the bottom of the first to take Jones. Sure Irvin did have speed over all the OLBs, including pass rush, which you choose to neglect. I don't know why you're denying that. Irvin had more sacks his Junior year in college than Jones did his entire career at Syracuse. Irvin had nearly two and a half more sacks his Junior and Senior year than Jones had his whole collegiate career. Jones only had 8 more tackles. The same amount of forced fumbles. Facts are facts. Can't get around it. Although Irvin wasn't your guy. Jones wasn't either as far as the 1st Round goes. Most experts and the general public like us had Jones and Irvin going very close to each other. None was favored to go over the other more than one. Irvin had 24.5 sacks him Junior and Senior year at WVU when Chandler Jones had 10 sacks his Soph, Junior, and Senior year at Syracuse. Jones never had more than 4.5 sacks in one year. When Irvin had 14.5, then the next year, 9 sacks, when teams were keying in on his more and giving him more respect as a pass rusher. In conclusion, you are wrong. Jones was not by far the better prospect, and you are also wrong when you say he was the better pass rusher. Which is flat out wrong, quite frankly not even close.
Forgot to mention. You were a big Melvin Ingram guy. You didn't want Jones at 16, you wanted Ingram. You see how he's working out in SD, I'm sure as hell glad we didn't take him.
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rickyt31
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 4831
Location: HeAtlanta,Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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yeah I wouldn't say Irvin was anything like Maybin. Irvin was a 240+lbs playing DE in a 3-3-5 scheme. That's tougher than a 240lbs man playing DE in a 3-4 scheme. That's why he was taken out during running plays, then the media assumed that he couldn't defend the run. The only reason why I noticed is because I played in a 3-3-5 scheme and know how tough it is.
Closer towards the draft I started to really want him. I didn't think Seattle was going to snatch him. Thought he was going to fall into the 2nd because of his background.
I liked him, Glenn, and Floyd ( that I remember, I know Im forgetting someone). I faded away from Ingram after some of yall proved some solid points about him. When it came to the pick, I thought Ingram was going to be the pick because he was the name that was always mentioned.
But if I had the option Irvin, Coples, and Ingram, I would have picked Irvin.
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rickyt31
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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At some point after this season we should post a list of who we really want, and who we don't want. So we could go back on it.
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jetsfan4life51
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 30516
Location: lawn guy land
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Jamison. wrote: | | jetsfan4life51 wrote: | | Jamison. wrote: | | jetsfan4life51 wrote: | | While the versatility and coverage is nice, we NEED the better pass rusher when comparing any prospects. |
Then Bruce Irvin should've been your guy last year. |
Irvin is just like Maybin and Jones was by far the better prospect. The only thing you could say is he had speed over all the OLBs, not pass rush. |
Jones by far the better prospect? Nooooo. You're wrong. Even according to you. You liked Jones as a 2nd Round Pick last year. And as the draft was a couple days away you were warming up to the "trade down" idea into the bottom of the first to take Jones. Sure Irvin did have speed over all the OLBs, including pass rush, which you choose to neglect. I don't know why you're denying that. Irvin had more sacks his Junior year in college than Jones did his entire career at Syracuse. Irvin had nearly two and a half more sacks his Junior and Senior year than Jones had his whole collegiate career. Jones only had 8 more tackles. The same amount of forced fumbles. Facts are facts. Can't get around it. Although Irvin wasn't your guy. Jones wasn't either as far as the 1st Round goes. Most experts and the general public like us had Jones and Irvin going very close to each other. None was favored to go over the other more than one. Irvin had 24.5 sacks him Junior and Senior year at WVU when Chandler Jones had 10 sacks his Soph, Junior, and Senior year at Syracuse. Jones never had more than 4.5 sacks in one year. When Irvin had 14.5, then the next year, 9 sacks, when teams were keying in on his more and giving him more respect as a pass rusher. In conclusion, you are wrong. Jones was not by far the better prospect, and you are also wrong when you say he was the better pass rusher. Which is flat out wrong, quite frankly not even close.
Forgot to mention. You were a big Melvin Ingram guy. You didn't want Jones at 16, you wanted Ingram. You see how he's working out in SD, I'm sure as hell glad we didn't take him. |
As soon as Jones combine numbers came out I started saying he's Aldon Smith and I wanted him. I definitely wanted Ingram too but I was iffy on him because of height. I liked Ingram the entire year but his production came all over, not at DE. I still think Ingram would have been good for us, any 1st round OLB would be good for us just get some talent there. Irvin was a 3rd-4th round for me, Jones 2nd rounder until the offseason where he jumped into the 1st round. So yes in my eyes he was the better prospect and his all around game and production show that he was the better prospect.
You're going to tell me who I did and didn't want at 16?  Not sure what your agenda is here.
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Jamison.
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| jetsfan4life51 wrote: | | Jamison. wrote: | | jetsfan4life51 wrote: | | Jamison. wrote: | | jetsfan4life51 wrote: | | While the versatility and coverage is nice, we NEED the better pass rusher when comparing any prospects. |
Then Bruce Irvin should've been your guy last year. |
Irvin is just like Maybin and Jones was by far the better prospect. The only thing you could say is he had speed over all the OLBs, not pass rush. |
Jones by far the better prospect? Nooooo. You're wrong. Even according to you. You liked Jones as a 2nd Round Pick last year. And as the draft was a couple days away you were warming up to the "trade down" idea into the bottom of the first to take Jones. Sure Irvin did have speed over all the OLBs, including pass rush, which you choose to neglect. I don't know why you're denying that. Irvin had more sacks his Junior year in college than Jones did his entire career at Syracuse. Irvin had nearly two and a half more sacks his Junior and Senior year than Jones had his whole collegiate career. Jones only had 8 more tackles. The same amount of forced fumbles. Facts are facts. Can't get around it. Although Irvin wasn't your guy. Jones wasn't either as far as the 1st Round goes. Most experts and the general public like us had Jones and Irvin going very close to each other. None was favored to go over the other more than one. Irvin had 24.5 sacks him Junior and Senior year at WVU when Chandler Jones had 10 sacks his Soph, Junior, and Senior year at Syracuse. Jones never had more than 4.5 sacks in one year. When Irvin had 14.5, then the next year, 9 sacks, when teams were keying in on his more and giving him more respect as a pass rusher. In conclusion, you are wrong. Jones was not by far the better prospect, and you are also wrong when you say he was the better pass rusher. Which is flat out wrong, quite frankly not even close.
Forgot to mention. You were a big Melvin Ingram guy. You didn't want Jones at 16, you wanted Ingram. You see how he's working out in SD, I'm sure as hell glad we didn't take him. |
As soon as Jones combine numbers came out I started saying he's Aldon Smith and I wanted him. I definitely wanted Ingram too but I was iffy on him because of height. I liked Ingram the entire year but his production came all over, not at DE. I still think Ingram would have been good for us, any 1st round OLB would be good for us just get some talent there. Irvin was a 3rd-4th round for me, Jones 2nd rounder until the offseason where he jumped into the 1st round. So yes in my eyes he was the better prospect and his all around game and production show that he was the better prospect.
You're going to tell me who I did and didn't want at 16? Not sure what your agenda is here. |
Sure you could have compared him to Aldon Smith, but actually, he is a different type of player than Aldon Smith actually is. Aldon is more of an edge rusher in a 3-4. Jones is a better run-stopping 4-3 DE. He is a good pass-rusher, but he is not an elite pass-rushing DE. I don't think he'll ever be nearly as good as Aldon. His explosion nor speed isn't close to Aldon's level.
The problem with Ingram is more so his short arms than his height.
If you didn't care what 1st Round OLB we got, we could've wound up with either Irvin, Ingram, Mercilus, Jones, or McClellin or Perry. I sure as hell wouldn't want anyone but Jones.
All your mocks in the offseason actually had Jones in the 2nd Round. Only 1 of your mock drafts had Jones in the 1st Round. So you are wrong about your own assessment only due to hindsight. You even said yourself there are questions he won't "blossom".
Yes, I'll give you credit Jones was very high on your Big Board. You were an Ingram first, Jones second type of guy. I commend you for liking Jones, but if it were up to you and we couldn't trade down at #16, you would've taken Ingram. It's fair to say Ingram has looked bad this year. I'm also not so sure Jones would be good standing up in a 3-4. I think a 4-3 system is a much better suited for Chandler Jones. | jetsfan4life51 wrote: | IF INGRAM FALLS TO US
1. Ingram....Chandler Jones if Ingram isn't there |
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jetsfan4life51
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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I go with what the experts give us. If Chandler Jones is a 2nd-3rd round pick in mock drafts, I will put him 2nd round for us, making our mock look better. I'm not going to mock a 2nd round guy to us at 16. Once he got 1st round status I was all for him.
I'm curious what day that post was. I know I always waver on prospects/ideas. I'm like a girl I can't make up my mind. But I recall being on the Jones bandwagon the week or two leading up to the draft. If not then it was Ingram because Rex loved him and I trust Rex.
I still wouldn't call Bruce Irvin the best pass rusher last year. He was all speed and very small frame, IDK if he would have hacked it at OLB. He's perfect in his LEO role in Carroll's scheme.
And I'm not saying no to Jordan, I like Damontre Moore better because he's been a great pass rusher this year and at the moment we are out of the Jarvis Jones sweepstakes. QB pressure will make our defense better, not an OLB who can run with a TE or RB.
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Jamison.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| jetsfan4life51 wrote: | I go with what the experts give us. If Chandler Jones is a 2nd-3rd round pick in mock drafts, I will put him 2nd round for us, making our mock look better. I'm not going to mock a 2nd round guy to us at 16. Once he got 1st round status I was all for him.
I'm curious what day that post was. I know I always waver on prospects/ideas. I'm like a girl I can't make up my mind. But I recall being on the Jones bandwagon the week or two leading up to the draft. If not then it was Ingram because Rex loved him and I trust Rex.
I still wouldn't call Bruce Irvin the best pass rusher last year. He was all speed and very small frame, IDK if he would have hacked it at OLB. He's perfect in his LEO role in Carroll's scheme.
And I'm not saying no to Jordan, I like Damontre Moore better because he's been a great pass rusher this year and at the moment we are out of the Jarvis Jones sweepstakes. QB pressure will make our defense better, not an OLB who can run with a TE or RB. |
The post was 5 days prior to the draft. Weather you like it or not, want to or not, Bruce Irvin is the best "pure pass-rusher" from the 2012 NFL Draft. There's no two ways about it.
What you are saying is like this:
Guy1: Mark Sanchez is better than Drew Bress
Guy2: Why
Guy1: Mark Sanchez is taller
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jetsfan4life51
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Not even close to what I'm saying.
And Whitney Mercilus almost doubled Irvin's sack totals. Yeah, best pure pass rusher. 
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Jamison.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| jetsfan4life51 wrote: | Not even close to what I'm saying.
And Whitney Mercilus almost doubled Irvin's sack totals. Yeah, best pure pass rusher. |
Then what are you saying, because you're pretty unclear and your posts contradict each other.
One year wonder to the full extent. Mercilus had 16 sacks his final year in college. Yet his whole collegiate career he only had 18 sacks. That is obviously a red flag.
Irvin was 1 sack shy of having exactly 4 times more sacks than Mercilus against ranked opponents, in only his final two years in college. That is remarkable. It's not even a question to me and it is not a surprise at all to me why in today's NFL, Bruce Irvin was the first pass-rusher taken in the NFL Draft. Mercilus is no doubt in my mind a one year wonder and is lucky to have fallen into such a great situation in Houston. It's not even like he's having a good year. Right now he looks really raw and doesn't look good.
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