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Week 9 GDT: Bears(6-1) @ Titans(3-5) 11/4 1PM EST
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Who Wins?
Chicago Bears
72%
 72%  [ 16 ]
Tennessee Titans
27%
 27%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 22

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-Hope-


Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 22436
Location: The []_[]
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s_camp wrote:
-Hope- wrote:
IMO we need to give Munchak 1 more season, but Jerry Gray NEEDS to go. Despite the fact that defense was not the problem today, we'd be sooo much better with an even halfway-competent defense.

I think our offense would have looked a lot better without Hasselbeck. Dude is done, plain and simple.


The trouble with keeping Munchak and replacing coordinators is that nobody worth a damn wants to be an OC or DC for a lame duck head coach. So now you're in the position of giving the HC an extension so he can hire decent coordinators, which means a few more years of trying to figure out if the HC can coach or not.

On Hasselbeck: 194 passing yards on 35 attempts. That's 5.5 yards per attempt. What a joke. Even against the Chicago defense, that's bad. Bears allowing ~6.4 yards per attempt before today.

Two years just does not seem like adequate time. Unless we lose out (or something close to that), I think Munch needs another year and I really don't see it as a lame duck year.
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s_camp


Joined: 10 Dec 2010
Posts: 3247
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanLegend wrote:
s_camp wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:
s_camp wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:
The young talent needs to develop.


It's up to Munch to make that happen, but it's not working. They make the same silly mistakes week after week. They can't tackle. Etc. Etc. Etc.


What we've seen from Locker is he's developing. Ayers is developing. McCarthy makes a huge difference on our defense when he's healthy, we know Britt can be good, Wright is developing nicely, etc.

You have to give it time.

If we fire Munchak after this season, what coach is going to look at Tennessee, see all the talent Munchak brought in and think "well, they're gonna give me a fair chance to win, even if it takes me a little while?".

We're completely changing the offense, and I think we're headed in the right direction there. We're completely changing the defense, not sure we're headed in the right direction there, though to be fair to Gray, when McCarthy is healthy, we're better. Not as good as I'd like..but there's improvement.

We can't keep starting over and expect success. It takes time to change a franchise, which Munch is trying to do. Will he be successful? I don't know, but trying to throw him out the door after 1 and a half years..I just don't know what to tell you. No NFL GM would ever do that, considering the changes he's trying to make and the talent he's brought in.


Not many NFL GMs hire a position coach to be a head coach, either.

Tell me this, do you think Munchak is building a consistent playoff team with a chance to go all the way?


Plenty of position coaches wind up being fantastic head coaches. I'm not worried about that. Tom Coughlin's only NFL experience as a coach was a position coach before he took over Jacksonville. He was HC at Boston College, but as we've seen, those are two completely different ball games. Harbaugh was only an assistant(special teams coordinator as well..but you get the point).

Do I think he's building a team that can be capable of that? Yes. He's shown he has a good eye for talent.

We'll find out how well he can develop it and coach it as we go in to his 3rd season. Locker, McCarthy, Ayers, Brown, Casey and Wright all appear to be well on their way, just a matter of health for some and consistency for others. The rule of thumb in the NFL has always been "3rd year is the judge", whether it be for players, coaches, etc.

I'm frustrated as much as anyone else, but I also know in the back of my head it takes time, and given the talent he's been able to bring in, I'm willing to give him the opportunity to turn it in to what we all want it to be. I think he deserves that chance.

Lets get Locker healthy, let him play the last 6 games or whatever he's able to do and get ready for what should be our return to the playoffs next year.


So Coughlin had experience running an organization, Harbaugh was a coordinator... Munch was an OL coach.

You keep talking about his good eye for talent and the great players he's brought in, but I have yet to see proof that he's responsible for it. Even if he is responsible for it, that's a good argument for him to be a personnel man, not a coach.
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s_camp


Joined: 10 Dec 2010
Posts: 3247
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-Hope- wrote:
s_camp wrote:
-Hope- wrote:
IMO we need to give Munchak 1 more season, but Jerry Gray NEEDS to go. Despite the fact that defense was not the problem today, we'd be sooo much better with an even halfway-competent defense.

I think our offense would have looked a lot better without Hasselbeck. Dude is done, plain and simple.


The trouble with keeping Munchak and replacing coordinators is that nobody worth a damn wants to be an OC or DC for a lame duck head coach. So now you're in the position of giving the HC an extension so he can hire decent coordinators, which means a few more years of trying to figure out if the HC can coach or not.

On Hasselbeck: 194 passing yards on 35 attempts. That's 5.5 yards per attempt. What a joke. Even against the Chicago defense, that's bad. Bears allowing ~6.4 yards per attempt before today.

Two years just does not seem like adequate time. Unless we lose out (or something close to that), I think Munch needs another year and I really don't see it as a lame duck year.


His contract is up after next season, so it's the very definition of a lame duck year.
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TitanLegend


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 4339
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s_camp wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:
s_camp wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:
s_camp wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:
The young talent needs to develop.


It's up to Munch to make that happen, but it's not working. They make the same silly mistakes week after week. They can't tackle. Etc. Etc. Etc.


What we've seen from Locker is he's developing. Ayers is developing. McCarthy makes a huge difference on our defense when he's healthy, we know Britt can be good, Wright is developing nicely, etc.

You have to give it time.

If we fire Munchak after this season, what coach is going to look at Tennessee, see all the talent Munchak brought in and think "well, they're gonna give me a fair chance to win, even if it takes me a little while?".

We're completely changing the offense, and I think we're headed in the right direction there. We're completely changing the defense, not sure we're headed in the right direction there, though to be fair to Gray, when McCarthy is healthy, we're better. Not as good as I'd like..but there's improvement.

We can't keep starting over and expect success. It takes time to change a franchise, which Munch is trying to do. Will he be successful? I don't know, but trying to throw him out the door after 1 and a half years..I just don't know what to tell you. No NFL GM would ever do that, considering the changes he's trying to make and the talent he's brought in.


Not many NFL GMs hire a position coach to be a head coach, either.

Tell me this, do you think Munchak is building a consistent playoff team with a chance to go all the way?


Plenty of position coaches wind up being fantastic head coaches. I'm not worried about that. Tom Coughlin's only NFL experience as a coach was a position coach before he took over Jacksonville. He was HC at Boston College, but as we've seen, those are two completely different ball games. Harbaugh was only an assistant(special teams coordinator as well..but you get the point).

Do I think he's building a team that can be capable of that? Yes. He's shown he has a good eye for talent.

We'll find out how well he can develop it and coach it as we go in to his 3rd season. Locker, McCarthy, Ayers, Brown, Casey and Wright all appear to be well on their way, just a matter of health for some and consistency for others. The rule of thumb in the NFL has always been "3rd year is the judge", whether it be for players, coaches, etc.

I'm frustrated as much as anyone else, but I also know in the back of my head it takes time, and given the talent he's been able to bring in, I'm willing to give him the opportunity to turn it in to what we all want it to be. I think he deserves that chance.

Lets get Locker healthy, let him play the last 6 games or whatever he's able to do and get ready for what should be our return to the playoffs next year.


So Coughlin had experience running an organization, Harbaugh was a coordinator... Munch was an OL coach.

You keep talking about his good eye for talent and the great players he's brought in, but I have yet to see proof that he's responsible for it. Even if he is responsible for it, that's a good argument for him to be a personnel man, not a coach.


Experience running a college team means nothing in the NFL. Not even the slightest bit.

Harbaugh coached special teams. Not a huge difference from a position coach.

You've got people like Andy Reid as well. I know now he's not very well liked now, but back in the early to mid 2000s the Eagles were always one of the best teams in the league. That's irrelevant to the conversation anyway.

I think the proof is in the fact we drafted extremely poorly in Jeff's last few years, kept the same college scouting department, and have suddenly drafted extremely well. I mean, I'm not saying he's 100% responsible, but he deserves some credit for it.

And I know it doesn't make the argument that he needs to be HC. It makes the argument though that he deserves a chance to show if he can coach it and develop it properly. It all seems to be developing thus far, just injuries getting in the way for a couple of them. Now has to put it all together in his third season.

Maybe next year we make the playoffs and appear to be turning in to a great team/or we actually become a great team.

Maybe next year we're the same, average to below average/bad football team we've been since like 04(well, there was 2008..but there's an exception to every rule Laughing ).

We'll just have to wait and see. I'm excited with the young talent and potential we have on the team. Lets see what Munch can do with it over the next year and a half.
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-Munch-


Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 3007
Location: Tennessee
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanLegend wrote:
s_camp wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:
s_camp wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:
s_camp wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:
The young talent needs to develop.


It's up to Munch to make that happen, but it's not working. They make the same silly mistakes week after week. They can't tackle. Etc. Etc. Etc.


What we've seen from Locker is he's developing. Ayers is developing. McCarthy makes a huge difference on our defense when he's healthy, we know Britt can be good, Wright is developing nicely, etc.

You have to give it time.

If we fire Munchak after this season, what coach is going to look at Tennessee, see all the talent Munchak brought in and think "well, they're gonna give me a fair chance to win, even if it takes me a little while?".

We're completely changing the offense, and I think we're headed in the right direction there. We're completely changing the defense, not sure we're headed in the right direction there, though to be fair to Gray, when McCarthy is healthy, we're better. Not as good as I'd like..but there's improvement.

We can't keep starting over and expect success. It takes time to change a franchise, which Munch is trying to do. Will he be successful? I don't know, but trying to throw him out the door after 1 and a half years..I just don't know what to tell you. No NFL GM would ever do that, considering the changes he's trying to make and the talent he's brought in.


Not many NFL GMs hire a position coach to be a head coach, either.

Tell me this, do you think Munchak is building a consistent playoff team with a chance to go all the way?


Plenty of position coaches wind up being fantastic head coaches. I'm not worried about that. Tom Coughlin's only NFL experience as a coach was a position coach before he took over Jacksonville. He was HC at Boston College, but as we've seen, those are two completely different ball games. Harbaugh was only an assistant(special teams coordinator as well..but you get the point).

Do I think he's building a team that can be capable of that? Yes. He's shown he has a good eye for talent.

We'll find out how well he can develop it and coach it as we go in to his 3rd season. Locker, McCarthy, Ayers, Brown, Casey and Wright all appear to be well on their way, just a matter of health for some and consistency for others. The rule of thumb in the NFL has always been "3rd year is the judge", whether it be for players, coaches, etc.

I'm frustrated as much as anyone else, but I also know in the back of my head it takes time, and given the talent he's been able to bring in, I'm willing to give him the opportunity to turn it in to what we all want it to be. I think he deserves that chance.

Lets get Locker healthy, let him play the last 6 games or whatever he's able to do and get ready for what should be our return to the playoffs next year.


So Coughlin had experience running an organization, Harbaugh was a coordinator... Munch was an OL coach.

You keep talking about his good eye for talent and the great players he's brought in, but I have yet to see proof that he's responsible for it. Even if he is responsible for it, that's a good argument for him to be a personnel man, not a coach.


Experience running a college team means nothing in the NFL. Not even the slightest bit.

Harbaugh coached special teams. Not a huge difference from a position coach.

You've got people like Andy Reid as well. I know now he's not very well liked now, but back in the early to mid 2000s the Eagles were always one of the best teams in the league. That's irrelevant to the conversation anyway.

I think the proof is in the fact we drafted extremely poorly in Jeff's last few years, kept the same college scouting department, and have suddenly drafted extremely well. I mean, I'm not saying he's 100% responsible, but he deserves some credit for it.

And I know it doesn't make the argument that he needs to be HC. It makes the argument though that he deserves a chance to show if he can coach it and develop it properly. It all seems to be developing thus far, just injuries getting in the way for a couple of them. Now has to put it all together in his third season.

Maybe next year we make the playoffs and appear to be turning in to a great team/or we actually become a great team.

Maybe next year we're the same, average to below average/bad football team we've been since like 04(well, there was 2008..but there's an exception to every rule Laughing ).

We'll just have to wait and see. I'm excited with the young talent and potential we have on the team. Lets see what Munch can do with it over the next year and a half.


If this is an argument about whether or not a HC is responsible for the draft, then I'd throw my coins in that he is responsible. But if all Munchak can do is draft well, put him in our FO but that's not enough to be a good head coach. I think how he responds from this will do more to determine whether or not he's a good coach.
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VinceYoung1010


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 787
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a few things I noticed while at the game live today.

In the fourth quarter:

I was incredibly angry that Britt was joking around and laughing with Urlacher during a TV timeout with his helmet off while the rest of the offense was huddled up talking about the next play. I know it's a game and supposed to be fun, but when you're losing the way we were losing, there shouldn't be anything that makes you smile about the other team.

Also, I like the maturity from CJ when he scored that he just dropped the ball and went to the sideline. No choppa city juke, no celebration, he understood the situation.

Overall, I hope this loss bothers some of the players enough to get them to work even harder.
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titansNvolsR#1


Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 12429
Location: Middle East
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VinceYoung1010 wrote:

Overall, I hope this loss bothers some of the players enough to get them to work even harder.


Meh. Heard it too many times from too many of the players to believe that at this point.
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prozac77


Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 206
Location: Ramona California
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow I am glad I didn't catch this game. I usually find it on the internet afterwards and (re)watch it but the boxscore and reading through this thread don't make me eager to. Really freakin sucks they dropped a 50 burger on the Titans. Kind of embarrassing to identify myself as a Titans Fan after something like this but time heals all wounds Crying or Very sad
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justing101


Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 1509
Location: Middle Tennessee
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havent had internet but its probably a good thing cuz I woulda got banned most likely, terrible game just awful, line was alright and CJ as well. Id like to give a shout out to my adopt a titan Zach Brown, he was amazing today! but other than those 3 things... wow we suck
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