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NateDawg


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Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 14782
Location: Hilliard
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
So let me get this straight, say we draft a DE and he turns out to be mediocre at best. Star turns out to be, well a star. You won't be disappointed? My question wasn't answered before, will you answer it?

Now if the Browns think that DE will be a stud then yes I would go that route. But in a crappy draft you go BPA regardless of position. And yes that would include DT. Maybe the only 2 positions I wouldn't go are OT and RB.


It just wouldn't be the route I personally would go. I understand where you and DawgSoldier are coming from if you really both think he's that great of a player. If there's a serious fall off between him and the defensive end group, I understand where you are coming from. To me, it makes me nervous adapting our whole system, which I feel like fits our current, talented personnel well, and going a different route. Moving Sheard, Jackson, Taylor, and Rubin out of a system where they excel, by switching to a 3-4 and using a first round pick just makes me uneasy. It's a big risk.

It's very possible that Star becomes a "star." I guess I'm not as opposed to him as I am the concept of switching to a 3-4 based on the above listed reasons. Now, if we have any concerns about someone like Rubin or Taylor for some reason, and think he projects as a phenom in the 4-3, I could justify the pick.

I guess the point I wanted to make, perhaps worded correctly, is my disdain for switching to a 3-4 based on our interest in Star. It's just my preference, but I respect your opinions and actually agree that you can't take a dropoff player at DE over a better player, if that's the case here.
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DawgSoldier


Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947
Location: Medina OH
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NateDawg wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
So let me get this straight, say we draft a DE and he turns out to be mediocre at best. Star turns out to be, well a star. You won't be disappointed? My question wasn't answered before, will you answer it?

Now if the Browns think that DE will be a stud then yes I would go that route. But in a crappy draft you go BPA regardless of position. And yes that would include DT. Maybe the only 2 positions I wouldn't go are OT and RB.


It just wouldn't be the route I personally would go. I understand where you and Dawgdish are coming from if you really both think he's that great of a player. If there's a serious fall off between him and the defensive end group, I understand where you are coming from. To me, it makes me nervous adapting our whole system, which I feel like fits our current, talented personnel well, and going a different route. Moving Sheard, Jackson, Taylor, and Rubin out of a system where they excel, by switching to a 3-4 and using a first round pick just makes me uneasy. It's a big risk.

It's very possible that Star becomes a "star." I guess I'm not as opposed to him as I am the concept of switching to a 3-4 based on the above listed reasons. Now, if we have any concerns about someone like Rubin or Taylor for some reason, and think he projects as a phenom in the 4-3, I could justify the pick.

I guess the point I wanted to make, perhaps worded correctly, is my disdain for switching to a 3-4 based on our interest in Star. It's just my preference, but I respect your opinions and actually agree that you can't take a dropoff player at DE over a better player, if that's the case here.


That is why hedge your bets and go hybrid 34/43.
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Mastercheddaar


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 4918
Location: Northeast Ohio.. Obviously
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: hmmm Reply with quote

Never underestimate the stupidity of some GMs. If we land #2 then there will be calls about a trade and with last year's trade we could land a ton for it.

that is all

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hornbybrown


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 15099
Location: 1600 Pennyslvania Ave
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have changed my mind. I want a playoff tracker instead. Very Happy
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Bonanza23


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 7021
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NateDawg wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
So let me get this straight, say we draft a DE and he turns out to be mediocre at best. Star turns out to be, well a star. You won't be disappointed? My question wasn't answered before, will you answer it?

Now if the Browns think that DE will be a stud then yes I would go that route. But in a crappy draft you go BPA regardless of position. And yes that would include DT. Maybe the only 2 positions I wouldn't go are OT and RB.


It just wouldn't be the route I personally would go. I understand where you and DawgSoldier are coming from if you really both think he's that great of a player. If there's a serious fall off between him and the defensive end group, I understand where you are coming from. To me, it makes me nervous adapting our whole system, which I feel like fits our current, talented personnel well, and going a different route. Moving Sheard, Jackson, Taylor, and Rubin out of a system where they excel, by switching to a 3-4 and using a first round pick just makes me uneasy. It's a big risk.

It's very possible that Star becomes a "star." I guess I'm not as opposed to him as I am the concept of switching to a 3-4 based on the above listed reasons. Now, if we have any concerns about someone like Rubin or Taylor for some reason, and think he projects as a phenom in the 4-3, I could justify the pick.

I guess the point I wanted to make, perhaps worded correctly, is my disdain for switching to a 3-4 based on our interest in Star. It's just my preference, but I respect your opinions and actually agree that you can't take a dropoff player at DE over a better player, if that's the case here.


Ahh then we are on the same page. I do not in any way shape or form want to go back to a 3-4. That was a horrendous failure. Just stick with a 4-3. Wouldn't mind a hybrid as long as it's more 4-3. BTW I have no clue with Star because I haven't seen him play, but I'm all for drafting BPA as long as you think he is an upgrade and will become a star type player.
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TeHDruiD


Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 6842
Location: Canton, OH
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about the delay, the stupid hurricane knocked my power out numerous times over the last few days


Week 8


1. Chiefs: (1-7) - 56-200 (.218)
2. Panthers: (1-7) - 61-195 (.238)
3. Jaguars: (1-7) - 67-189 (.261)
4. Browns: (2-6) - 58-198 (.226)
5. Saints: (2-6) - 60-196 (.234)
6. Chargers: (3-5) - 51-205 (.199)
7. Bengals: (3-5) - 54-202 (.210)
8. Buccaneers: (3-5) - 55-201 (.214)
9. Eagles: (3-5) - 58-198 (.226)
10. Bills: (3-5) - 58-198 (.226)
11. Redskins: (3-5) - 59-197 (.230)
12. Cowboys: (3-5) - 61-195 (.238)
13. Jets: (3-5) - 62-194 (.242)
14. Titans: (3-5) - 63-193 (.246)
15. Rams: (3-5) - 68-188 (.265)
16. Lions: (3-5) - 73-183 (.285)
17. Raiders: (4-4) - 48-208 (.187)
18. Steelers: (4-4) - 53-203 (.207)
19. Seahawks: (4-4) - 64-192 (.25)
20. Cardinals: (4-4) - 70-186 (.273)

Most interesting to me is somehow we're still not out of the playoff hunt with only 2 wins. The AFC is ridiculously weak this year, so I'm not counting us out of anything. We have a gritty group with a lot of pride, you can't bet against that. If we get a win against the Ravens on Sunday, some hope will start to move in. Personally I think we beat them by at least 10 points.
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hornbybrown


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 15099
Location: 1600 Pennyslvania Ave
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with you there Druid. We beat the Ravens and anything can happen.

Really annoyed at Hadden missing four games. That hurt us bad along with WR's having drops that I believe lead to two wins becoming two L's
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Drew_Carey


Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Posts: 1478
Location: Seattle - Cleveland
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panthers beat the skins so I guess the browns are backing to picking 3rd....
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TeHDruiD


Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 6842
Location: Canton, OH
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Week 9



The parity in the NFL right now is crazy. I look at us picking at #3 and quickly realize that I have no clue where we'll be picking at the end of the year because so many teams have only won 3 games
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hornbybrown


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 15099
Location: 1600 Pennyslvania Ave
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is crazy
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KamTrus20


Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 5313
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get the Jarvis Jones love, but IMO Dion Jordan has supreme talent that only comes around once in a great blue moon. Dion Jordan has so much more physical talent than Jarvis Jones and is a better overall defender. He is better against the run. He is better in contain. He is far superior in coverage. Right now Jones has the edge in pass rushing, but I don't believe Oregon gives Jordan enough oppurtunities for him to get into a rhythm. Consistency cannot happen if you are not given consistent chances. It doesn't end with what the two are doing right now because down the road Dion Jordan's ceiling is miles higher than Jarvis Jones. IMO he has Jevon Kearse, DeMarcus Ware or Jason Taylor in his hayday type talent.

The other player who has elite potential as I have read and heard is Star Lotulelei. I have read or heard numerous times that he has Haloti Ngata type potential. I cannot speak to that like I can with Dion Jordan because I haven't really watched him enough to fairly say one way or the other. If he does truely have that kind of ability then sign me up for that guy as well.

Outside of those two players I don't really see elite cannot pass up talents in this draft. Jarvis Jones is having a great college career but his NFL upside is limited IMO. I don't see Clay Matthews or Von Miller in him not even close.
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
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Location: The Man, The Myth, The Legend El Ramster on the sig
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could Dion Jordan be the answer to super athletic TEs?
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KamTrus20


Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 5313
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Could Dion Jordan be the answer to super athletic TEs?


I don't see why not I have not seen him beat in coverage and he lines up on boundry WRs too. He also used to be a TE himself. I don't know if that would help him much in defending them, but it does prove he has the same athletic abliity as a TE and actually IMO he has far more athletic ability than most TEs.

If a team wanted to use him to cover Finley, Graham, Gronkowski then I think you'd have to run a 34 base. I suppose you could drop your DE into coverage some but to make it a game play for the entire game would be a mistake for a 43 base defense IMO.
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Estonianzulu


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Location: Middle of Nowhere VA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KamTrus20 wrote:

If a team wanted to use him to cover Finley, Graham, Gronkowski then I think you'd have to run a 34 base. I suppose you could drop your DE into coverage some but to make it a game play for the entire game would be a mistake for a 43 base defense IMO.


Why? I don't see any reason we couldn't use a 4 down lineman with a roving cover linebacker matched up against a TE. Jauron got 21 sacks in two seasons out of Roosevelt Colvin at TE when his defense worked the best, no reason if you believe that Jordan can play standing up in a 4-3 that he couldn't be used in either cover or pass rush.

In fact, i'd say it makes him almost more versatile. If he can drop back in cover or blitz with a down lineman in front of him, all sorts of possibilities emerge.
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 4515
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This Kid is starting to Impress me....I need to see a live game with him in it.....I didnt know how versitile this kid is.....6'6'243....playing DE/LB and CB in the slot.....
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