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Why do Bears fans hate Lovie Smith?
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7846
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TexasBearsFan wrote:
I really don't understand what the argument here is anymore. Lovie could call the plays if he wanted to but he doesn't because he's not very good at it and Tice is better at it. I think you both agree on that, even though you're trying your best not to.
Mike seems to think that Tice would pout like a teenaged girl should his boss tell him what to do on occasion. I don't. Not that this is important.

Hey, without pointless arguments this place would resemble the Morgue.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22299
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
MonserinNC wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Some how you have this idea that these unit coaches are independent actors. They are not, they are there to do what the HC wants NOT what they want. Now it is true that the HC is not going to be constantly interfering but the idea that they cannot or would not tell his subordinates what he wants done on occasion is just unrealistic. And I have detailed how Ditka, at times, took over Ed Hughes' job and called plays.

Coordinators work FOR the HC. (Except in unusual circumstances as was the case with Buddy Ryan and The Coach.)


I never said they were…I said that coordinators consult with the HC…

Consulting with the HC is something that obviously needs to be done…but if a HC doesn’t have the relevant skills to plan and implement a gameplan then why would he step on the toes of someone he hired in the first place who he feels does have the skills to plan & implement one?


Al totally gets what Im saying, even if it isnt his expertise, Lovie still is the guy that hired him and in theory its his job on the line. The Bears have allowed Lovie to fire like 4 different OC's which is unusual for the NFL. I just dont see how you guys place zero blame on Lovie for coaching or personnel mistakes...Im not sure how else to explain it....there is no way that the GM and all the coordinators were doing a bad job and Lovie was the only one doing a good job.


I don’t think anyone has said that…there is no doubt that Lovie has made mistakes when it comes to hiring coaches…

My point is simply that once Lovie has hired the guy (good or bad) he has to let him do his job or it’s a clear showing that he has no faith in the guy he just hired…he can’t micro manage a guy who he feels can do the job…especially on the offensive side of the ball where he doesn’t have the expertise to interfere in a good way.
McCarthy is not the OC of the Packers but he is the one who calls the plays. It does not undermine his coordinator. Now, I certainly don't want Smith to take over calling all the plays but if there was a direction he demanded the play calling go, Tice would not feel emasculated by going there. No one is claiming Tice is or should be a mere puppet but he does have a boss.


That's because McCarthy is the best guy for the job...Lovie isn't the best guy to call offensive plays.
Surely you are not going to claim that I, of all people, believe he is. However, he is the Coach and, if he wanted to do so, he has every right to do so. And it, in no way, undermines his subordinate. That is why he is called a subordinate.


Obviously…but my point is he wouldn’t do that because he has no expertise to do so…hence the reason he hires a guy he has faith in and lets him run the show...coaching is as much about having the ability to hand things off to the right people…no HC can run a franchise on his own.
If Smith says "Mike I want to run the ball more here." Like he allegedly did last year with Martz there would be no problem with Tice. He would not have his feelings hurt or feel disrespected in the slightest. Tice is not a teenaged girl.


No one said there was…there is a big difference between making a suggesting like that and actually game planning prior to a game and then calling the plays during that game.
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willyallthewei


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badger75 wrote:
There are plenty of old coaches around. Wade Phillips and Norv Turner have never coached a SB team but they keep getting hired.

Leslie Frazier in Minnesota is very quietly building a winner. Another year or two and the Vikings will have a dominent team just in time to unveil a new stadium.

For the Bears 2012 is now or never. Wink


He can build whatever he'd like. That team already has good weapons and a solid O-line and yet Ponder can't put it together, thus, they will seek a QB, and that is a never ending journey in this league.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7846
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
MonserinNC wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Some how you have this idea that these unit coaches are independent actors. They are not, they are there to do what the HC wants NOT what they want. Now it is true that the HC is not going to be constantly interfering but the idea that they cannot or would not tell his subordinates what he wants done on occasion is just unrealistic. And I have detailed how Ditka, at times, took over Ed Hughes' job and called plays.

Coordinators work FOR the HC. (Except in unusual circumstances as was the case with Buddy Ryan and The Coach.)


I never said they were…I said that coordinators consult with the HC…

Consulting with the HC is something that obviously needs to be done…but if a HC doesn’t have the relevant skills to plan and implement a gameplan then why would he step on the toes of someone he hired in the first place who he feels does have the skills to plan & implement one?


Al totally gets what Im saying, even if it isnt his expertise, Lovie still is the guy that hired him and in theory its his job on the line. The Bears have allowed Lovie to fire like 4 different OC's which is unusual for the NFL. I just dont see how you guys place zero blame on Lovie for coaching or personnel mistakes...Im not sure how else to explain it....there is no way that the GM and all the coordinators were doing a bad job and Lovie was the only one doing a good job.


I don’t think anyone has said that…there is no doubt that Lovie has made mistakes when it comes to hiring coaches…

My point is simply that once Lovie has hired the guy (good or bad) he has to let him do his job or it’s a clear showing that he has no faith in the guy he just hired…he can’t micro manage a guy who he feels can do the job…especially on the offensive side of the ball where he doesn’t have the expertise to interfere in a good way.
McCarthy is not the OC of the Packers but he is the one who calls the plays. It does not undermine his coordinator. Now, I certainly don't want Smith to take over calling all the plays but if there was a direction he demanded the play calling go, Tice would not feel emasculated by going there. No one is claiming Tice is or should be a mere puppet but he does have a boss.


That's because McCarthy is the best guy for the job...Lovie isn't the best guy to call offensive plays.
Surely you are not going to claim that I, of all people, believe he is. However, he is the Coach and, if he wanted to do so, he has every right to do so. And it, in no way, undermines his subordinate. That is why he is called a subordinate.


Obviously…but my point is he wouldn’t do that because he has no expertise to do so…hence the reason he hires a guy he has faith in and lets him run the show...coaching is as much about having the ability to hand things off to the right people…no HC can run a franchise on his own.
If Smith says "Mike I want to run the ball more here." Like he allegedly did last year with Martz there would be no problem with Tice. He would not have his feelings hurt or feel disrespected in the slightest. Tice is not a teenaged girl.


No one said there was…there is a big difference between making a suggesting like that and actually game planning prior to a game and then calling the plays during that game.
That is all I have ever said.
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