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Canadian Saint


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 2177
Location: Canada!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
I know people will say this is an overreaction to one football game but I don't believe so... This team is in very bad shape top to bottom with or without Sean Payton.

I say, blow up the entire defense in offseason. Fire Spags and hire a top 34 assistant. Begin switch, already have some key peices in DE's Hicks and Jordan, MLB Lofton, Olb rusher Wilson, safetys Harper and Jenkins (better fit in 34).

Draft big physical NT an big physical corners.

Start tweaking offense toward a more running attack, take ball out of Drews hands a Lil more. Draft maulers up front on edges.


No on firing Spags.

Honest to god why fire him one season in when it's the fault of the personnel that's causing the issue?

The Mort report said something like "around the NFL most people agree that the defensive issue in New Orleans is not a scheme problem, but a personnel problem"

The difference between this D and the one GW ran is obvious, this one asks for fundamentally sound play, GW does not.

You could bring in a generational D coordinator and they would suck with these clowns on the team.

My idea is just purge most of these clowns and go from there.

Like seriously, remember two seasons ago with Lynch grabbing his crotch, which players were that to?

Or last season, 50 seconds left with the lead, and which D lets Alex friggin Smith march down and score a TD?

These clowns can't get it done, and the moment they are asked to learn a fundamentally sound D which asks them to use their head, they crap themselves.

Purge the personnel, and give Spags the horses, and I assure you we'll be better.

Hicks, Johnson, Jordan, Galette, Wilson, Lofton, Hawthorne, Greer, Robinson and Patrick.

Everyone else can get the hell of this team. No one else deserves to stay on. If some of these clowns had half the work ethic of PT, this D would be better. They don't and as such, they suck.

Disgraceful D and players. I hope they are ashamed of themselves.
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3135
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Honest to god why fire him one season in when it's the fault of the personnel that's causing the issue?


Two words... College football!

YES, the Mort report was right... this is a personnel problem and that means personnel has to change! Either way 43 or 34 the personnel has to change!!!

Look at all the prospect coming out of college, the college game is forcing us to make this switch. Tehe arent alot of great personnel for a 43 defense coming out. Everyone is undersized athletic players to handle the college spread. We can build a very good 34 defense faster than a 43. Look at the Texans, Pass rushers for a 34 can be found in all rounds. You gotta have the ingredents to make that good ol gumbo and the college ranks is the grocery store and there fresh outta 43 flava!!!

The game is changing... college football is causeing it. Get ready for 34 defenses and option QB's " its the future"
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SWATcha


Joined: 10 Sep 2008
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Location: Sacto, CA.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saints have set a new NFL record.....7 straight games giving up 400+ yards on Defense, lmao epic.

You can all get on the Hicks bus now. Me and Harp tried to tell you all he's going to be a monster Wink
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navysaintsfan


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Fire Spags and hire a top 34 assistant


This would be a mistake. 90% of the time, a new DC will need time for the scheme to come together. Zone schemes are very complex and will not always show what they can do in the first season they are enacted. You bring in a 3-4 guy...you think you will just get instant success? We don't have the personnel to run a 3-4 and it would take at least 1-2 seasonsjust to acquire the pieces we need. We might as well give Spags the time to work with Loomis in finding the key pieces he needs. If we make the attempt to switch to a 3-4 next season you are essentially saying you want to forfeit what we have left of Drew Brees, because we won't have a defense that can compete for a few seasons.

We hired Spags, give him time to do his job.
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

navysaintsfan wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Fire Spags and hire a top 34 assistant


This would be a mistake. 90% of the time, a new DC will need time for the scheme to come together. Zone schemes are very complex and will not always show what they can do in the first season they are enacted. You bring in a 3-4 guy...you think you will just get instant success? We don't have the personnel to run a 3-4 and it would take at least 1-2 seasonsjust to acquire the pieces we need. We might as well give Spags the time to work with Loomis in finding the key pieces he needs. If we make the attempt to switch to a 3-4 next season you are essentially saying you want to forfeit what we have left of Drew Brees, because we won't have a defense that can compete for a few seasons.

We hired Spags, give him time to do his job.


First you say hiring a 34 guy would take to much time, then you end with give Spags time to do his job... Either way it is going to take time and from what I'm seeing Spags isn't any closer to fielding a competitive defense than any 34 guy would be.

Also, yes we do have 34 peices... Alot of our core young defenders played in the 34 in college. Jordan and Hicks were 34 players, Wilson and Galette are prime conversion prospects to the stand up rusher. Our secondary can stay the same. Sure there would be bumps in the road but other teams have shown that it dosent take years...

Does not matter... stay with Spags, it will take time. Go with the 34 it will take time. I know this though, the college ranks top defensive talent better suit the 34 than the 43 these days.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I know this though, the college ranks top defensive talent better suit the 34 than the 43 these days.


Yup. We're going to get left behind while everyone else switches to the 3-4
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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Quote:
I know this though, the college ranks top defensive talent better suit the 34 than the 43 these days.


Yup. We're going to get left behind while everyone else switches to the 3-4

At the same time, couldn't that be an advantage? We'd have better 4-3 talent falling to us while everyone snatches up 3-4 LB and DL.
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Quote:
I know this though, the college ranks top defensive talent better suit the 34 than the 43 these days.


Yup. We're going to get left behind while everyone else switches to the 3-4

At the same time, couldn't that be an advantage? We'd have better 4-3 talent falling to us while everyone snatches up 3-4 LB and DL.


and how many years have we been saying this while everyone else gets better and we get worse...
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Quote:
I know this though, the college ranks top defensive talent better suit the 34 than the 43 these days.


Yup. We're going to get left behind while everyone else switches to the 3-4

At the same time, couldn't that be an advantage? We'd have better 4-3 talent falling to us while everyone snatches up 3-4 LB and DL.


and how many years have we been saying this while everyone else gets better and we get worse...

We've gotten worse because of awful drafting. Everyone and their mother knew Cameron Jordan was a prototypical 3-4 DE and what do we do? Draft him and hope he fixes our pass rushing problems. Sedrick Ellis, huge bust. Malcolm Jenkins has been a bust. We clearly need to get better at evaluating defensive talent because we've had plenty of chances to improve our defense and we've simply swung and miss.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Quote:
I know this though, the college ranks top defensive talent better suit the 34 than the 43 these days.


Yup. We're going to get left behind while everyone else switches to the 3-4

At the same time, couldn't that be an advantage? We'd have better 4-3 talent falling to us while everyone snatches up 3-4 LB and DL.


and how many years have we been saying this while everyone else gets better and we get worse...

We've gotten worse because of awful drafting. Everyone and their mother knew Cameron Jordan was a prototypical 3-4 DE and what do we do? Draft him and hope he fixes our pass rushing problems. Sedrick Ellis, huge bust. Malcolm Jenkins has been a bust. We clearly need to get better at evaluating defensive talent because we've had plenty of chances to improve our defense and we've simply swung and miss.


The funny thing is, a lot of us Saints fans have been disappointed by guys we passed on, then they ended up being good somewhere else.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Quote:
I know this though, the college ranks top defensive talent better suit the 34 than the 43 these days.


Yup. We're going to get left behind while everyone else switches to the 3-4

At the same time, couldn't that be an advantage? We'd have better 4-3 talent falling to us while everyone snatches up 3-4 LB and DL.


and how many years have we been saying this while everyone else gets better and we get worse...

We've gotten worse because of awful drafting. Everyone and their mother knew Cameron Jordan was a prototypical 3-4 DE and what do we do? Draft him and hope he fixes our pass rushing problems. Sedrick Ellis, huge bust. Malcolm Jenkins has been a bust. We clearly need to get better at evaluating defensive talent because we've had plenty of chances to improve our defense and we've simply swung and miss.


So... are you saying we should fire Mickey Loomis?
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Quote:
I know this though, the college ranks top defensive talent better suit the 34 than the 43 these days.


Yup. We're going to get left behind while everyone else switches to the 3-4

At the same time, couldn't that be an advantage? We'd have better 4-3 talent falling to us while everyone snatches up 3-4 LB and DL.


and how many years have we been saying this while everyone else gets better and we get worse...

We've gotten worse because of awful drafting. Everyone and their mother knew Cameron Jordan was a prototypical 3-4 DE and what do we do? Draft him and hope he fixes our pass rushing problems. Sedrick Ellis, huge bust. Malcolm Jenkins has been a bust. We clearly need to get better at evaluating defensive talent because we've had plenty of chances to improve our defense and we've simply swung and miss.


So... are you saying we should fire Mickey Loomis?

No. Honestly, a GM is only as good as his scouts. Loomis is a great GM because of how he always finds a way to manipulate the cap. Our scouting department has been MISERABLE. We constantly miss on draft picks. I know hindsight is 20/20 so I'm not going to do the if we hadnt taken Player A we could have Player B but gosh darnet we haven't drafted an impact defensive player since...I dont even know honestly. Our track record has been miserable, something needs to change.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No way we need to can get rid of Loomis. Just look at what he did with our cap this season.
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SaintsBeast


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm kinda tired of everyone hating on Jenkins... First off, if the past few weeks are any indication, Spags is starting to get on him, and it's showing in his game. The man ran something like 75+ yards in 7 seconds... How many players in the NFL could do that, let alone WOULD? I'm not making a guarantee, but i'm sensing a possible return to form from him. Only time will tell.

And WHY FIRE SPAGNOLO? He's been here less than half a damn season!! GW came in and, because of the nonexistant DL pass rush, just started throwing people at the QB and actually found pretty immediate success. The thing that's implanted now in a lot of your minds is that since Spags is a better DC that Williams was, you think we should have a top-10 defense because of his coaching... Fact of the matter is, we don't. The problem is not our LBers, nor is it our secondary. It's our DL. It is, hands-down, the worst defensive line that the NFL has ever seen. Granted, our secondary and LBers aren't trying to help them out, but that's because they're focusing on THEIR responsibilities. We need to grab a FA DL and draft the BPA for the defensive line, NT, DT, or DE. Doesn't matter.
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