Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

OL not as bad as we all thought [Panthers]
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Chicago Bears
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 10097
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:54 am    Post subject: OL not as bad as we all thought [Panthers] Reply with quote

Here are some excerpts film review done by Dan Pompei

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-spt-1030-pompei-film-session--20121030,0,7089264.column

But a review of the tape revealed the big boys didn't play all that poorly. In fact, the linemen were responsible for only two of the sacks.

Here is what happened on each of the sacks.

Sack 1: Tight end Matt Spaeth is at fault, getting his feet tangled with J'Marcus Webb's and subsequently getting bulled back and beaten for a sack.

Sack 2: Cutler holds the ball for 5 seconds before Greg Hardy finally comes free after being blocked well by Webb. This sack is completely on the QB.

Sack 3: Cutler holds the ball for 4.2 seconds and is at fault again. Gabe Carimi cuts Hardy on what is supposed to be the back side of a screen pass to Matt Forte. DT Dwan Edwards prevents the possibility of a completion by getting in the way of Forte. Instead of throwing the ball at Forte's feet, Cutler double clutches and gets nailed by Hardy, who had time to get up off the ground and get to Cutler.

Sack 4: Webb could have blocked Frank Alexander better, but Cutler steps up and is in position to avoid the sack. However, instead of escaping in an open lane to his right, Cutler steps up to his left into an oncoming rush and a sack by Edwards. This was Cutler's fault more than Webb's.

Sack 5: Guard Chilo Rachal gets the blame for stepping inside on Hardy and slipping as Hardy goes outside shoulder.

Sack 6: Carimi gets beat on a speed rush by Charles Johnson for a sack/strip.

Lance Louis and Webb graded out the highest.
_________________
Adopt a Bear: DT Will Sutton [T, S, TFL, FF]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22972
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only one I would disagree with him on is sack 4 where he blames Cutler more than Webb….yes there is a lane but at this point he had already went down 3 times and fumbled once…Jay isn’t the best under pressure so I don’t blame him for eating the sack after Webb gave up the quick pressure…other than that he is spot on...as much as Hardy had 3 sacks all coming from Webb's side none of them were actually Webb's fault so I'm not surprised he graded out well...especially since his run blocking was very good throughout the game.
_________________
Adopt-a-Bear 2014…Lance Briggs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 10097
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am still worried about Carimi he looks shaky in pass protection every time he kicks back.

Webb has been playing solid football and to me not giving up more sacks or pressures than your average LT.

I am starting to realize though that we still need some serious taken upgrades even if this group is playing well.

A guy in the draft that I am playing close attention to is Tennessee OG Dallas Thomas who started the last 3 years at LT but moved to make way for a big recruit.

I think a versatile guy like Thomas could come in and compete at RT and at LG and be an upgrade at either.
_________________
Adopt a Bear: DT Will Sutton [T, S, TFL, FF]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22972
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
I am still worried about Carimi he looks shaky in pass protection every time he kicks back.

Webb has been playing solid football and to me not giving up more sacks or pressures than your average LT.

I am starting to realize though that we still need some serious taken upgrades even if this group is playing well.

A guy in the draft that I am playing close attention to is Tennessee OG Dallas Thomas who started the last 3 years at LT but moved to make way for a big recruit.

I think a versatile guy like Thomas could come in and compete at RT and at LG and be an upgrade at either.


Still for me the most impressive thing about Webb this season is how much he has cut down on penalties…7 games and he has given up 1 false start…that would be impressive from any young Olinemen…

As for Carimi I’m no more worried than I would be seeing a rookie play the way he is…there are clearly areas of his game that have to improve vastly but there are also some positives…after a year out and 7 games I’m nowhere near ready to pull the plug and I doubt the coaching staff are either…

I do agree tho that we need to upgrade on the interior…I’m still not sold Rachal is a long term answer and obvious Garza will have to be replaced at some point…I would love to pick up a true guard as it’s a deep class.
_________________
Adopt-a-Bear 2014…Lance Briggs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MonserinNC


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 5231
Location: Back in the CHIIII
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never understand on Game day why you guys always blame the sacks on the OL to begin with, haha, its almost like we arent watching the same games.

I have said for a while, and even last year, OL is important but no elite QB would have their entire season derailed by OL play. Cutler takes alot of sacks that better QB's wouldn't.
_________________


BrotherlyLove wrote:
Cutler isn't sexy enough to be compared to sexy rexy, let's get real


Darrelle Revis wrote:
TEBOWSANITYMANIA
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 19342
Location: Abdi on the sick sig
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MonserinNC wrote:
I never understand on Game day why you guys always blame the sacks on the OL to begin with, haha, its almost like we arent watching the same games.

I have said for a while, and even last year, OL is important but no elite QB would have their entire season derailed by OL play. Cutler takes alot of sacks that better QB's wouldn't.
Dude was only sacked 11 times his last year in Denver, the OL is a big part of the sacks man.
_________________

2013 Bears Forum Mike Ditka Award Winner
2014 Adopt-A-Bear Alshon Jeffery
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MonserinNC


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 5231
Location: Back in the CHIIII
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
MonserinNC wrote:
I never understand on Game day why you guys always blame the sacks on the OL to begin with, haha, its almost like we arent watching the same games.

I have said for a while, and even last year, OL is important but no elite QB would have their entire season derailed by OL play. Cutler takes alot of sacks that better QB's wouldn't.
Dude was only sacked 11 times his last year in Denver, the OL is a big part of the sacks man.


I think at this point its a psychological thing. Just watching him, he clearly takes alot of sacks. Shannahan put a premium on OL but that will almost never happen again.
_________________


BrotherlyLove wrote:
Cutler isn't sexy enough to be compared to sexy rexy, let's get real


Darrelle Revis wrote:
TEBOWSANITYMANIA
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 19342
Location: Abdi on the sick sig
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MonserinNC wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
MonserinNC wrote:
I never understand on Game day why you guys always blame the sacks on the OL to begin with, haha, its almost like we arent watching the same games.

I have said for a while, and even last year, OL is important but no elite QB would have their entire season derailed by OL play. Cutler takes alot of sacks that better QB's wouldn't.
Dude was only sacked 11 times his last year in Denver, the OL is a big part of the sacks man.


I think at this point its a psychological thing. Just watching him, he clearly takes alot of sacks. Shannahan put a premium on OL but that will almost never happen again.
I think he sometimes holds the ball too long and that might acct for 25% of the sacks, but the vast majority of time there is a major protection breakdown and the guy has somebody in his face as soon as he sets his feet. I also think that he's making a concious effort to take sacks and not force bad throws this year.
_________________

2013 Bears Forum Mike Ditka Award Winner
2014 Adopt-A-Bear Alshon Jeffery
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nads786


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 4220
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly think taking tons of sacks in a game really changes any QB's mentality. Also the number of hits.

Most qbs who are constantly getting hit, or sacked just end up holding the ball to long probably because their decision making has turned to absolute crap.

If you give Cutler protection from the beginning he usually plays extremely well.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 10097
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was assessing blame,

OL 50%
QB 20%
Play Calling 20%
TE/RB 10%
_________________
Adopt a Bear: DT Will Sutton [T, S, TFL, FF]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 8027
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
I am still worried about Carimi he looks shaky in pass protection every time he kicks back.

Webb has been playing solid football and to me not giving up more sacks or pressures than your average LT.

I am starting to realize though that we still need some serious taken upgrades even if this group is playing well.

A guy in the draft that I am playing close attention to is Tennessee OG Dallas Thomas who started the last 3 years at LT but moved to make way for a big recruit.

I think a versatile guy like Thomas could come in and compete at RT and at LG and be an upgrade at either.
They are going to give Carimi a chance to develop.

People have no patience for developing young players and, if they had their way, it would be a constant merry-go-round on the line and NO progress will be made.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 8027
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: OL not as bad as we all thought [Panthers] Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Here are some excerpts film review done by Dan Pompei

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-spt-1030-pompei-film-session--20121030,0,7089264.column

But a review of the tape revealed the big boys didn't play all that poorly. In fact, the linemen were responsible for only two of the sacks.

Here is what happened on each of the sacks.

Sack 1: Tight end Matt Spaeth is at fault, getting his feet tangled with J'Marcus Webb's and subsequently getting bulled back and beaten for a sack.

Sack 2: Cutler holds the ball for 5 seconds before Greg Hardy finally comes free after being blocked well by Webb. This sack is completely on the QB.

Sack 3: Cutler holds the ball for 4.2 seconds and is at fault again. Gabe Carimi cuts Hardy on what is supposed to be the back side of a screen pass to Matt Forte. DT Dwan Edwards prevents the possibility of a completion by getting in the way of Forte. Instead of throwing the ball at Forte's feet, Cutler double clutches and gets nailed by Hardy, who had time to get up off the ground and get to Cutler.

Sack 4: Webb could have blocked Frank Alexander better, but Cutler steps up and is in position to avoid the sack. However, instead of escaping in an open lane to his right, Cutler steps up to his left into an oncoming rush and a sack by Edwards. This was Cutler's fault more than Webb's.

Sack 5: Guard Chilo Rachal gets the blame for stepping inside on Hardy and slipping as Hardy goes outside shoulder.

Sack 6: Carimi gets beat on a speed rush by Charles Johnson for a sack/strip.

Lance Louis and Webb graded out the highest.
So it was not my imagination that Cutler was getting rid of the ball quicker in the second half.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
willyallthewei


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes its my first post, but in any case this is how I feel about the article, and I posted it on another forum too... is that I frankly don’t care what Dan Pompeii says, everything that happened in the film as far as I can tell points to the O-line being at fault for the offense's killed drives. I watched the film for this game particularly because it was so much better in the 4th quarter than the earlier drives and I was intrigued. I watched every snap offensively up until the 4th quarter (where things got good, so I don't care much about what happened).

First off, Cutler was good that game - real good, as in he made 1 mistake that game good - for the most part he checked down to the right play and there wasn't a snap where he didn't go to the right guy according to what the defense showed him. Unequivocally, the O-line was at fault for killing drives with mistakes on key plays such as our center tripping over himself, the right guard getting pushed back 6 yards into Cutler’s face, our Left guard blocking the wrong man in a zone left play, our Center having a false start penalty, and our right guard completely whiffing on a run block. That’s just off the top of my head.

As for just how asinine Pompeii’s analysis is, all you have to do is see for yourself on that sack where Cutler seemed to have stayed in the pocket too long (he says 5 seconds). Okay, the defense was in a cover 3 rushing 4, Cutler read the coverage almost instantly after the ball is snapped, he looks straight at a wide open receiver (think it might’ve been our tightend Spaeth) – the open man on that play. This tells me Cutler read the coverage and knew where to find the open guy, who stood by himself 7 yards down the field along the right sideline. One problem, the right guard – Lance Louis - is pushed into Cutler’s face, and Cutler has no room to deliver this football. Cutler then tries to run outside the pocket because he knows if he can escape, that tightend is still open (there was no flat coverage on this particular play, they had two underneat receivers to one defender on that side of the field, that option would be there if he could only escape the pocket), before he can, he is sacked by pressure from the opposite side

You want to say Cutler should’ve thrown it away instead of trying to get a first down on second and 10? Maybe, but it is also understandable that he would try to escape the pocket to try to complete the pass for a first down because the receiver was completely uncovered. I want my quarterback trying to make the play here, its what makes good QB's great, but make no mistake, that play became a broken play the minute that lance Louis was pushed into Cutler's right arm and he had to pull the ball down before what you can clearly see is the start of his throwing motion towards the wide open receiver.

And, Lance Louis grading out #2? Lance Louis killed two drives by getting beat on critical plays and they helped him with the center every single snap after half-time.

Everyone can believe what they want, afterall, I’m just some random Bears fan on a messageboard. But from what I saw, I can tell you right now, our O-line is our weakest link, specifically, our RIGHT GUARD is our weakest link. On a high note, Webb is improving and Rachal is freaking good. And as for Cutler, he made the right read almost every play all game except for the interception throw, where he knew not to throw it but did it anyway. Probably his biggest knock, 90% of the time he's throwing into traffic intentionally, not because he didn't see a guy.

If I had to grade out our O-line from that game it would be #1.) Rachal #2.) Webb #3.) Carimi #4.) Garza #5.) Louis
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 19342
Location: Abdi on the sick sig
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^^^^^^
First of all, welcome to the board, always nice to get new posters who want to talk Bears

Now that we got that out of the way....


There is no way w/ a straight face you can tell me that Louis is a weaker link than Carimi. Carimi has been horribad in pass pro ALL YEAR, Louis on the other hand has been above average all year. Right now, Louis is probably our best OL followed by Garza. As for wanting a QB to make a play, we all want that, but sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. Jay usually gets into the most trouble when he's trying to make a play. Part of the reason that Jay's best INT #s of his career came under Martz (yeah I said it folks) is b/c Martz system is a presnap read/throw system. Back foot hits, balls out, either to an open receiver or throw it away. Jays overconfidence is undoubtedly his biggest weakness, which is why I'm not hammering him for taking the sacks, I think that shows quite a bit of maturity.
_________________

2013 Bears Forum Mike Ditka Award Winner
2014 Adopt-A-Bear Alshon Jeffery
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22972
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^

As Sup said welcome to the forums…hope to read plenty of your input…

But on this one I have to strongly agree with Sup…which as a new poster you won’t know is kinda rare lol…Louis over the course of the season has been our best Oline on the season…he has been consistently strong in both pass pro and run blocking…also he hasn’t hurt us with excessive penalties…there has been a clear improvement in the consistency of his technique as well.
_________________
Adopt-a-Bear 2014…Lance Briggs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Chicago Bears All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group