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The problems on this team go much deeper than pass rushers!
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:59 am    Post subject: The problems on this team go much deeper than pass rushers! Reply with quote

Wow… Talk about a shootout ugh!!!

For real tho, this game (Broncos) really highlighted a lot of areas this team needs to improve in and they ain’t all on the defensive side of the ball.

Offensively this line cannot run block! I have yet to see a game where this line has won the battle upfront, they continue to get pushed around and manhandled in the run game. There are exceptions of course, Benn Grubbs has played well in this area as well as Jahri Evans (when he isn’t caught holding) but on the edges Bushrod and Strief are constantly manhandled. DLP isn’t any better neither, this unit lacks physicality outside the guard positions and is in need of a major overhaul if this team ever expects to field any type of competent rushing attack.

I’m not going to bash the running backs here; they do their best with what’s in front of them. I feel they get thrown to the wolves with the offensive line play and play calling from the coaching staff. We have some quality backs on this roster (Ingram included) but they continue to be misused in this offensive scheme.

Our wide receivers cannot separate! That was never Colston’s game and he’s not to blame but Henderson has clearly lost a couple steps and can no longer be counted on as a deep threat. Moore was never a burner per say but has started to become more inconsistent of late. This unit needs Joe Morgan’s deep speed and could also benefit from an influx of youth and speed at the position. Quite frankly, there is nobody in this unit that scares defenses outside of Jimmy Graham.

Defensively this team is downright atrocious! Struggling because you’re trying to adept to a new defensive scheme and concepts is forgivable; becoming the worst defense in league history is not! This entire unit needs to be retooled! Pathetic is in some ways too soft of a word to describe the play, effort and focus of this defensive staff and players. A lot of people have grabbed on to the Mort Report about this being a personnel problem and not a scheme issue, well whatever the case it is obvious that either way the personnel on this unit needs major changes and that goes for coaches as well as players!!!

Where do we go from here???

While a lot of you may feel I’m simply overreacting to one loss, I actually feel I’m being more of a realist than many. While my ideas may differ from a lot of others I think we can all agree that whole sale changes must be made in the offseason.

Forget the playoffs folks! Get ready for that top 10 draft pick.

This offense needs to be upgraded while the defense needs a complete rebuild! This staff needs to understand the meaning of the term OFFENSIVE BALANCE while defensively we should look to others as a route to better play.

We need to take the ball out of Drew Brees hands more (that’s right, I said it) and learn to be more patient in the run game. I understand that’s hard when our defense is being carved up like cheese but I’m talking about the future. As far as this season and the rest of it, it’s time to sit the overweight, slow, high priced veterans and start playing the young guys to see exactly what we have and if they will be pieces of what we do moving forward. That won’t happen tho, because these coaches know that they might not be here either. Nothing is guaranteed in this league, especially when you’re the worst at what you do and that’s where we are right now!

OFFSEASON:

Fire Steve Spagnuolo & hire Steelers linebacker coach Keith Butler to rebuild this defense.


Come on, admit it… every lifelong Saints fan around remembers the good ol Dome Patrol days and secretly yearns for those glory days to return to the Big Easy!

Look, I have nothing against Spags! I feel he’s a good football coach that misjudged exactly how big of a task rebuilding this Saints defense was going to be. I’m sure he felt that with Sean Payton’s high powered scoring attack all he had to do was to field a manageable defense and he’d be able to get by… WRONG!!!
This team personnel wise is in shambles defensively! I hold no ill will or blame towards Spags, he did his best with what he had but looking at this roster moving forward the CORE defensive players we have to build around better suit the 34 defensive scheme in my opinion and that route would get us back on track faster and in enough time to still be in Drew Brees prime.

Let me explain why I feel this way, just hear me out…

Why Keith Butler?

Keith Butler has been - LeBouf’s understudy for over a decade now. He’s ready, of course the rumor is that he is waiting for LeBouf to retire then he’d assume the DC job in Pittsburgh but that ain’t anything money wouldn’t fix. Also, Steelers coach Mike Tomlin hasn’t been afraid to mix up his coaching staff there in Pittsburgh and Butler could look at New Orleans as a way to truly build a defense his way and he’d already have a quality core to start with.

THE CORE:

Cameron Jordan, Akiem Hicks, Matrez Wilson, Junior Galette, Curtis Lofton, Malcolm Jenkins, Roman Harper & Patrick Robinson.

That is the core of players this rebuild can start with!

Cam Jordan: This dude played at Cal no more than 3 years ago. He played DE in Cal’s 34 scheme and was a absolute MONSTER in it. He’s the protoypical size and skill set for the RDE position in the 34 scheme and would be a MUCH better player than what we’re seeing from him now and that’s saying something!!!

Akiem Hicks: We all know about Hicks’s skill set. Big, powerful and athletic but did you know that at the University of Regina that Hicks also played in both the 43 and 34 defense. He has experience in both and because of his size and athletic ability would project as a great LDE in the 34 scheme.

Martez Wilson: Go look up 49ers All-Pro rush linebacker Aldon Smith and compare him physically to Martez Wilson… You won’t find much difference yet Smith has become an NFL phenom while Wilson struggles to get on the field? Switch to the 34 and we already have our much needed ace rusher and a dam good one at that!

Junior Galette: While Martez Wilson would give the Saints a good version of Aldon Smith, Galette would be a pretty good poor man’s version of LaMarr Woodly. Galette is stouter against the run and has a good array of pass rush moves. There will be questions about him playing in space but nobody said this transition would be completely smooth. Galette is very athletic and could excel in this system if given the opportunity.

Curtis Lofton: Lofton is a stout run defender with size and along with David Hawthorne would give the Saints two playmakers on the inside that could really make this defense something to brag about!

Jenkins & Harper: I know that these two have both had their fair share of troubles this season. The fact is that they simply don’t fit well with what Spags wants to do. In a 34 scheme I feel the defense would be more aggressive and allow these two to play more to their strengths instead of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Jenkins could actually convert back to corner in the 34 scheme to add more size and physicality on the edge.

Patrick Robinson: While I see P-Rob as a better fit in the 34, I also see him at the nickel as well. Robinson has a physicality trait to him and developing coverage skills but he’s still a work in progress and would be better suited on the inside in this scheme. Still a player to be excited about though!

Why the 34 defense???

First it’s just my preference… I mean if ya gotta bring in all new personnel, why not the 34?

The college football landscape is oozing with talent that fit this scheme. Most NCAA defenders are undersized athletic players built to defend the college spread. More and More NFL teams have switched to the 34 making free agents easier to get for this system.

I mean look, Pure 43 edge rushers don’t grow on trees but finding 34 outside linebackers in today’s NFL draft isn’t really that hard. These guys are found in all rounds and found often. Brooks Reed, Connor Barwin, Justin Houston just to name a few not taken in the 1st round.

To me it’s the way to go… Think of the college game as the grocery store and your defense as the meal you wanna cook. If the store is all out of flour and onions, I doubt that gumbo gunna taste real good!

Think of a starting defensive lineup like this next season…

LDE – Akiem Hicks
NT – Rickey Jean-Francois (FA-49ers)
RDE – Cameron Jordan
OLB – Martez Wilson
MLB – Curtis Lofton
MLB – David Hawthorne
OLB – Junior Galette
CB – Malcolm Jenkins
FS – Eric Reid (Draft-LSU)
SS – Roman Harper
CB – Kennan Lewis (FA-Pitt)
NCB – Patrick Robinson

Other notable draft able prospects and FA pickups…

DRAFT:

OLB – Jarvis Jones, Georgia (will fall somewhat do to medical)
OLB – Barkevious Mingo, LSU (Could trade up)
NT – Star Loutelei, Utah
NT – Jonathan Hankins, Ohio State (Could trade up)
LDE – Sheldon Richardson, Missouri
MLB – Manti Te’o, Notre Dame
NT – Louis Nix, Notre Dame
CB – Jonathan Banks, Mississippi State
CB – Xavier Rhodes, Florida State
CB – Dee Milliner, Alabama
MLB – CJ Mosley, Alabama
NT – Jonathan Jenkins, Georgia

FREE AGENTS:
OLB – Connor Barwin, Texans
OLB – Antwan Barnes, Chargers
FS – Ryan Mundy, Steelers
OLB – James Harrison, Steelers
DE – Randy Starks, Dolphins
NT – Casey Hampton, Steelers
DE – Vonnie Holliday, Cardinals
OLB – Shawn Phillips, Chargers
OLB – Anthony Spencer, Cowboys
FS – Kerry Rhodes, Cardinals
CB – Cary Williams, Ravens

In closing…
I don’t know, I might be wrong but it just seems to me that the 34 defense offers deeper draft prospects and cheaper FA alternatives to improve this unit. Our current core also leads me to believe that the switch is best for them and their skill sets as well.

Keeping Spags just tells me that this will continue to be a patchwork unit until the day Brees retires. We’ll continue to see the Saints hang on to aging veterans while listening to them give the same old lame excuses after games…

“It’s on us”
“We need to find a way to fix it”
“We need to stick together”
“We need to regroup”
“It’s frustrating”

Well that last one I happen to agree with!


Night fellas… WHODAT
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wow_junky


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Offensively my only concern is the tackle situation at the end of the season

Defensively I don't think we can fix our problems in one offseason, especially missing a 2nd rounder. After seeing yet another game where receivers have bags of space to make plays I'm starting to think CB is our biggest issue
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SWATcha


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think offensively not having Sean P. is having a bigger affect than people realize. His playcalling is second to none, as well as his ability to sub in packages to get the match-ups he wants. I think Carmichael is overthinking and trying to do his best Sean P. impersonation, but he's not Payton. The offense has been extremely predictable. It's tough to run when the other team knows it's coming.

Defensively, I don't think firing Spags is the answer. I don't think blowing up the whole defense is the answer either, that just seems too unrealistic. Saints need to get more athletic and faster on D. They some sideline to sideline players, playmakers. Until that happens, maybe we can all pool our pennies together and send them stocking stuffer book "Tackling for Dummies 101". Very Happy
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SWATcha wrote:
I think offensively not having Sean P. is having a bigger affect than people realize. His playcalling is second to none, as well as his ability to sub in packages to get the match-ups he wants. I think Carmichael is overthinking and trying to do his best Sean P. impersonation, but he's not Payton. The offense has been extremely predictable. It's tough to run when the other team knows it's coming.

Defensively, I don't think firing Spags is the answer. I don't think blowing up the whole defense is the answer either, that just seems too unrealistic. Saints need to get more athletic and faster on D. They some sideline to sideline players, playmakers. Until that happens, maybe we can all pool our pennies together and send them stocking stuffer book "Tackling for Dummies 101". Very Happy


I get what your saying SWAT, I really do. I dont like the idea of firing spags but lets face it... he has fielded the worst defense in NFL history or close to it. There is NO excuse for that. The NFL has proven that switching to the 34 isnt a 4 years project if you have peices, we have them. If you truly want to prodive Brees with a pressure based defense then going to the 34 is more realistic than hoping to repair ALL the cracks in Spags unit.
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Porter22


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like we should go BPA on defense. We need a difference maker on defense no matter which position he plays. I would even consider drafting Manti Teo'o. This guy is a beast, for me the best defensive player to come out in years!
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porter22 wrote:
I feel like we should go BPA on defense. We need a difference maker on defense no matter which position he plays. I would even consider drafting Manti Teo'o. This guy is a beast, for me the best defensive player to come out in years!

But where would we play him? WLB? The ENTIRE defense is hurting because of our lack of pass rush, we can call out the secondary all we want but guess what? We could have all pros at every spot in the secondary but if the QB has 10 seconds to throw the ball, we're going to get torched regardless.
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go saints
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Porter22 wrote:
I feel like we should go BPA on defense. We need a difference maker on defense no matter which position he plays. I would even consider drafting Manti Teo'o. This guy is a beast, for me the best defensive player to come out in years!

But where would we play him? WLB? The ENTIRE defense is hurting because of our lack of pass rush, we can call out the secondary all we want but guess what? We could have all pros at every spot in the secondary but if the QB has 10 seconds to throw the ball, we're going to get torched regardless.


Harp, check out my post on MNF... Give me Dee Milliner and the switch!
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not oppose the selection of Te'ol
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Porter22 wrote:
I feel like we should go BPA on defense. We need a difference maker on defense no matter which position he plays. I would even consider drafting Manti Teo'o. This guy is a beast, for me the best defensive player to come out in years!

But where would we play him? WLB? The ENTIRE defense is hurting because of our lack of pass rush, we can call out the secondary all we want but guess what? We could have all pros at every spot in the secondary but if the QB has 10 seconds to throw the ball, we're going to get torched regardless.


Harp, check out my post on MNF... Give me Dee Milliner and the switch!

I don't get how switching to the 3-4 is going to help though, Akiem Hicks isn't a good fit at NT and it completely negates his biggest strength. The issue isn't that we run a 4-3 its that we have ZERO talent at DE, literally zero.
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go saints
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Porter22


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Porter22 wrote:
I feel like we should go BPA on defense. We need a difference maker on defense no matter which position he plays. I would even consider drafting Manti Teo'o. This guy is a beast, for me the best defensive player to come out in years!

But where would we play him? WLB? The ENTIRE defense is hurting because of our lack of pass rush, we can call out the secondary all we want but guess what? We could have all pros at every spot in the secondary but if the QB has 10 seconds to throw the ball, we're going to get torched regardless.


whodatworm talked about switching to a 3-4 defense. He could play one of the ILB positions and we could trade/cut Hawthorne or Lofton. It's not about their playing this year but we don't know whether they can play in a 3-4 or not. Look at Demeco Ryans in Houston!
Our pass rush won't get any worse and players like Wilson and Galette will become better. Maybe we can bring in a guy like Connor Barwin or draft a pass rusher in round two. There is a lot pass rushing talent this year and one good player will drop to the second round at least!
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Porter22 wrote:
I feel like we should go BPA on defense. We need a difference maker on defense no matter which position he plays. I would even consider drafting Manti Teo'o. This guy is a beast, for me the best defensive player to come out in years!

But where would we play him? WLB? The ENTIRE defense is hurting because of our lack of pass rush, we can call out the secondary all we want but guess what? We could have all pros at every spot in the secondary but if the QB has 10 seconds to throw the ball, we're going to get torched regardless.


Harp, check out my post on MNF... Give me Dee Milliner and the switch!

I don't get how switching to the 3-4 is going to help though, Akiem Hicks isn't a good fit at NT and it completely negates his biggest strength. The issue isn't that we run a 4-3 its that we have ZERO talent at DE, literally zero.


The 49ers rotate their defensive lineman at positions for matchups. Thats why getting Francois would be important. he rotates back and forth from NT to DE. This is where he and Hicks would work well. It's how Hicks was used in college.

Their are way more problems on this current saints defense than pass rushers... No run defense, Bunkley has been a major BUST! No pass rush but that aint nothing new and or secondary talent dosent fit spags concepts.

Bring spags back, and this defense is still 2-3 years away.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porter22 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Porter22 wrote:
I feel like we should go BPA on defense. We need a difference maker on defense no matter which position he plays. I would even consider drafting Manti Teo'o. This guy is a beast, for me the best defensive player to come out in years!

But where would we play him? WLB? The ENTIRE defense is hurting because of our lack of pass rush, we can call out the secondary all we want but guess what? We could have all pros at every spot in the secondary but if the QB has 10 seconds to throw the ball, we're going to get torched regardless.


whodatworm talked about switching to a 3-4 defense. He could play one of the ILB positions and we could trade/cut Hawthorne or Lofton. It's not about their playing this year but we don't know whether they can play in a 3-4 or not. Look at Demeco Ryans in Houston!
Our pass rush won't get any worse and players like Wilson and Galette will become better. Maybe we can bring in a guy like Connor Barwin or draft a pass rusher in round two. There is a lot pass rushing talent this year and one good player will drop to the second round at least!

How do we know Wilson and Galette will become better in a 3-4? What if they regress? Also the cap hit from trading or cutting Hawthorne and Lofton would be huge. Switching to a 3-4 isn't the answer, getting talent is.
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go saints
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porter22 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Porter22 wrote:
I feel like we should go BPA on defense. We need a difference maker on defense no matter which position he plays. I would even consider drafting Manti Teo'o. This guy is a beast, for me the best defensive player to come out in years!

But where would we play him? WLB? The ENTIRE defense is hurting because of our lack of pass rush, we can call out the secondary all we want but guess what? We could have all pros at every spot in the secondary but if the QB has 10 seconds to throw the ball, we're going to get torched regardless.


whodatworm talked about switching to a 3-4 defense. He could play one of the ILB positions and we could trade/cut Hawthorne or Lofton. It's not about their playing this year but we don't know whether they can play in a 3-4 or not. Look at Demeco Ryans in Houston!
Our pass rush won't get any worse and players like Wilson and Galette will become better. Maybe we can bring in a guy like Connor Barwin or draft a pass rusher in round two. There is a lot pass rushing talent this year and one good player will drop to the second round at least!


Exactly... people are forgetting that this is maybe going to go down as the NFL's worst defense in HISTORY... HISTORY!!!

I'm sorry guys there is absoutly ZERO excuses for that!

THis defense is horriable and if a talent like Te'o is on the board you take him. This team needs great players and Te'o is one.

We can't afford to get picky... this defense is NOT 1-2 players away. This defense is pathatic for a reason!
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Porter22 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Porter22 wrote:
I feel like we should go BPA on defense. We need a difference maker on defense no matter which position he plays. I would even consider drafting Manti Teo'o. This guy is a beast, for me the best defensive player to come out in years!

But where would we play him? WLB? The ENTIRE defense is hurting because of our lack of pass rush, we can call out the secondary all we want but guess what? We could have all pros at every spot in the secondary but if the QB has 10 seconds to throw the ball, we're going to get torched regardless.


whodatworm talked about switching to a 3-4 defense. He could play one of the ILB positions and we could trade/cut Hawthorne or Lofton. It's not about their playing this year but we don't know whether they can play in a 3-4 or not. Look at Demeco Ryans in Houston!
Our pass rush won't get any worse and players like Wilson and Galette will become better. Maybe we can bring in a guy like Connor Barwin or draft a pass rusher in round two. There is a lot pass rushing talent this year and one good player will drop to the second round at least!

How do we know Wilson and Galette will become better in a 3-4? What if they regress? Also the cap hit from trading or cutting Hawthorne and Lofton would be huge. Switching to a 3-4 isn't the answer, getting talent is.


David Hawthorne played at TCU, Lofton at Oklahoma... these two can play in the 34 on the indise so we can stop with all that nonsence. Actually they would be a very good tandem on the inside in that scheme.

How do we know wilson and galette will become better in the 34... at least we'd find out! they would get on the field in more base packages. If they don't it's eaiser to find 34 rush backers than pure 43 rush ends in todays nfl drafft.
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Porter22


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about anyone starting our offseason thread so we won't have 3 or 4 different threads in which we discuss future moves, spags scheme and many other problems?
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