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s_camp


Joined: 10 Dec 2010
Posts: 2945
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThatTitansFan wrote:
We have zero depth at DE, zero playable depth at linebacker, especially at middle (spoon is washed up and the rest are just ST players), a 32 year old at one safety position and a continuously underperforming player at the other.


This is the big problem. Sure it would be good to get Mouton off the field, but we've got much bigger problems than that on D. Also, there must be somebody on the roster/practice squad that can take Mouton's spot. Didn't Sensabaugh replace Mouton after a while today?
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TitanSlim


Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: NC
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThatTitansFan wrote:
OMG GUYS, OUR NICKEL CORNER CAN'T SHUT DOWN REGGIE WAYNE?! GUYZ LETZ DRAFT A CORNER IN THE 1ST ROUND CUZ THAT MAKES ME SADDDDDDDD.

Seriously. Stop attacking a strawman argument- a shutdown corner will help any defense in the NFL.

My point, which you ignored totally, was that CB is clearly the best position group on our defense, and unless a CB is by far the BPA when we draft in the 1st and 2nd round, it would be absolutely idiotic to draft one. We have zero depth at DE, zero playable depth at linebacker, especially at middle (spoon is washed up and the rest are just ST players), a 32 year old at one safety position and a continuously underperforming player at the other.

And you want us to spend our 1st round pick on CB?

You know we play zone right? And that corners are a lot easier to find for zone than man? And that we only have 2 defensive ends capable of rushing the passer? Hmmm. Let's see, we've got 4 corners we know can play fairly well, and a 4th round rookie from this year, but only 2 playable defensive ends... I know, we should draft MOAR CORNERS.

And where is this "Campbell is inconsistent" stuff coming from? He's been injured for games and barely played this year. Not to mention he's a SECOND YEAR PLAYER. Who was really raw, but is physically gifted. And nevermind we have another guy like that, Sensabaugh, that we just drafted. And a guy on the PS, Hawkins, who looked pretty damn good subbing in last year.

God, I hope you become a GM someday. You can be Matt Millen, but with Corners instead of Wideouts. "Here, let me ignore all the other problems on my team and just draft the same spot over and over!" At least Millen had the excuse that the WRs he drafted kept busting, so he needed to draft new ones.


Dude, you're missing my point. I agree that we DE depth, S and a pass rushing DT before a CB. I'm not saying we need to draft a CB. I'm just saying it wouldn't shock me if we did depending on whose available.

The Matt Millen comment is quite funny though. You talk about us ignoring a need and drafting the same position over and over. Yet we just did that with the drafting of Kendall Wright. We had bigger needs than WR (Interior O-line, S, DE) but yet we ignored them by drafting Wright, because they felt Wright could be a difference maker for our offense. It's not a stretch to think this same FO could have that same mentality if they feel that a difference making CB is available when we pick.
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TitanSS


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dramatic much? I did ignore your point. You're right, because my post was not directed at you at all.

In a league where almost every team is pass happy and the nickel is on the field in a majority of the downs you don't think we need at least 3 good corners?

I agree with your point which is why I did not address it.. Verner and McCourty are solid.

Outside of a CB our needs include depth at LB and DL and potential starters at safety. The safety just signed a big contract extension and there are no safeties worth a top ten pick. Which isn't far from likely where we will be picking. Our needs on offense include the offensive line. That is all. Munchak has already said we won't be taking an OL early, and you can get quality interior lineman in the second round nearly every year.

Yes, I am aware that we primarily play zone.

Are you aware that our zone coverage is horrible and consistently has gaping holes in it regardless of how well the pass rush is?

We need to be playing a lot more man coverage and press coverage to be a competitive defense with the way the NFL is at this point. The soft zone coverage where you rush the same 4 ppl down after down and line your corners up 10 yards off the line of scrimmage is not viable.

CB is by far our best bet at this point for a first round pick, given a once in a life time Tackle, Safety, or possibly DT is not available.

We need depth on defense to back up our DL and LBs, not first round pick quality players.
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TitanSS


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSlim wrote:
ThatTitansFan wrote:
OMG GUYS, OUR NICKEL CORNER CAN'T SHUT DOWN REGGIE WAYNE?! GUYZ LETZ DRAFT A CORNER IN THE 1ST ROUND CUZ THAT MAKES ME SADDDDDDDD.

Seriously. Stop attacking a strawman argument- a shutdown corner will help any defense in the NFL.

My point, which you ignored totally, was that CB is clearly the best position group on our defense, and unless a CB is by far the BPA when we draft in the 1st and 2nd round, it would be absolutely idiotic to draft one. We have zero depth at DE, zero playable depth at linebacker, especially at middle (spoon is washed up and the rest are just ST players), a 32 year old at one safety position and a continuously underperforming player at the other.

And you want us to spend our 1st round pick on CB?

You know we play zone right? And that corners are a lot easier to find for zone than man? And that we only have 2 defensive ends capable of rushing the passer? Hmmm. Let's see, we've got 4 corners we know can play fairly well, and a 4th round rookie from this year, but only 2 playable defensive ends... I know, we should draft MOAR CORNERS.

And where is this "Campbell is inconsistent" stuff coming from? He's been injured for games and barely played this year. Not to mention he's a SECOND YEAR PLAYER. Who was really raw, but is physically gifted. And nevermind we have another guy like that, Sensabaugh, that we just drafted. And a guy on the PS, Hawkins, who looked pretty damn good subbing in last year.

God, I hope you become a GM someday. You can be Matt Millen, but with Corners instead of Wideouts. "Here, let me ignore all the other problems on my team and just draft the same spot over and over!" At least Millen had the excuse that the WRs he drafted kept busting, so he needed to draft new ones.


Dude, you're missing my point. I agree that we DE depth, S and a pass rushing DT before a CB. I'm not saying we need to draft a CB. I'm just saying it wouldn't shock me if we did depending on whose available.

The Matt Millen comment is quite funny though. You talk about us ignoring a need and drafting the same position over and over. Yet we just did that with the drafting of Kendall Wright. We had bigger needs than WR (Interior O-line, S, DE) but yet we ignored them by drafting Wright, because they felt Wright could be a difference maker for our offense. It's not a stretch to think this same FO could have that same mentality if they feel that a difference making CB is available when we pick.


The Matt Millen comparison makes no sense.. considering the last CB we drafted before the 3rd round is no longer on our team.

We only have two corners that can play well as far as I'm concerned. Pass rush specialist DE's can be found throughout the entire draft. We don't need them to play the run, just rush the passer and give our starters a breather. We just drafted a DE first round years ago.

I would not say CB is our best position group considering 3 corners are on the field a lot.. and the drop off to our 3rd corner is HUGE. You sarcastically say he can't cover Reggie Wayne.. He can't cover anyone. Period.
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingTitan wrote:
I do think our pass rush was better today than it has been in a while.
The DL was consistently in Luck's face, especially in the 2nd half. But with guys open down field like they were, he didn't have to hesitate when throwing.

Most times that was directed at Mouton. Just like we targeted their one guy ( his name escapes me) look like they were after Mouton.
He was the worst defender in coverage today and historically is...

Sensabaugh is a viable replacement, no need to draft high and blow it up unless its the best pick...
A season under his belt hopefully he can step up..


This I could understand if Sensabaugh can actually play. But we haven't seen near enough of him to declare him starter quality in my opinion.

If we're drafting in the 5-15 range, given this years prospects, CB looks to be by far the BPA. Outside of trading back, we could draft a safety way too early, take a OT (interior OL is just too easy to find later to take this high), Take a DT although the top one likely will not fall to us, or draft a top tier CB.

I feel like the pick has to be on the defensive side of the ball if it's not an OL, and that our starting DT, DE, and LBs are god enough that we really only need depth behind them.

OL, S, and CB are what I see as the biggest team needs.

I guess I should ask what are everyone elses?
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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally feel that de is the first pick. If we pick high a defensively end is the value pick.
Or
An defensive tackle. But seeing the players we have at dt I think end ranks higher.

After that a safety and or corner.

I think the pass rush and run defense remain top priority
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renndawg37


Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 1632
Location: Toronto, ON
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingTitan wrote:
I personally feel that de is the first pick. If we pick high a defensively end is the value pick.
Or
An defensive tackle. But seeing the players we have at dt I think end ranks higher.

After that a safety and or corner.

I think the pass rush and run defense remain top priority


I want Chance Warmack. Really badly. Then pick defense for the rest of the draft lol. Trade for Aqib Talib. Very Happy
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justing101


Joined: 09 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need Jarvis Jones then go corner in 2nd
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ttitansfan4life


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 25073
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justing101 wrote:
We need Jarvis Jones then go corner in 2nd


Please explain to me why we need Jarvis Jones. I could understand if we played a 3-4 but we dont. Jones would get manhandled if he played DE for us. Ayers is one of our best defensive players(not saying much but still) and we're not replacing him. So where does Jones play? He's not playing WLB because he'd bet manhandled in coverage. My order would be.......

1.) Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah - Yea you can say DT is not a need but honestly, you don't pass on a talent like Star. Martin and Klug are not starter material. Their both rotational guys. Casey at UT and Star at NT would be amazing with the other guys rotating in. Marks would be gone obviously.

2.) Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida State - My top rated DE. Our DE's arn't great(Morgan has been playing really good lately though) but our depth behind these guys is straight pathetic. Dave Ball's career is likely over. Leger Douzable hasn't even played yet and isn't really special. Scott Solomon is a 7th round rookie so he needs time. Keyunta Dawson was a 7th round pick and he's had a journyman career. I believe Werner could come in and instantly start in place of Wimbley. Bring Wimbley off the bench to keep him fresh and ready to get after the QB on 3rd down.

3.) Sam Montgomery, DE, LSU - Same as Werner

4.) Dee Milliner, CB, Alabama - The only CB I'd take in the top 15. However, I'd take him assuming the top 3 are all gone. CB is not that high of a need at all. McCourty and Verner have played pretty good. Our safeties give them no help and the pass-rush is hot and cold. Behind our top 2 CB's, we have nobody. Mouton is trash and should've been gone long ago, Campbell looks like he'll never be it, and I'm not sure Sensabaugh is it yet(still need to see more) but could make a good dime back.

5.) Johnathan Hankins, DT, Ohio State - Not as good as Star but he's a space eater. Not many teams will up the middle with Casey and Hankins there. Hankins will command double teams so it will open opportunities for other guys.

6.) Chance Warmack, G, Alabama - Best overall guard. Guy is a mauler in the run game. Could plug him at RG(I doubt Harris will be back) right away and then move him to LG when Hutch retires.

7.) Manti Te'o, MLB, Notre Dame - Before you guys go all out because it's a MLB, let me explain. Te'o has been the best defensive player in all of college football this year. Hell, his name is in the heisman talk. His instincts are 2nd to none. He's lost weight since last season and it show's with how much quicker and better he is in coverage. I know it's a long shot because we seem set at LB with Brown at WLB, McCarthy at MLB, and Ayers at SLB but if my top 6 are off the board, Te'o would be the pick. The only reason he's this low, is because it's really not a need. Both McCarthy and Te'o have the instincts to play WLB and their both good in coverage. They can be the nickel LB's while Ayers rotates in at DE in passing downs. 2 very instinctive LB's like Te'o and McCarthy would do wonders for this D.

8.) Eric Reid, FS, LSU - Reid lately has fell down my board. He's still the best playmaking safety but I'm not a fan of his tackling. Seems kind of soft in that aspect. Could just go with Griffin for another year and take a safety in the 2nd if available like T.J. McDonald, Matt Elam, or Robert Lester who are more fit at SS which is a higher need because I doubt the team gives up on Griffin after giving him such a big contract.
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KingTitan


Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need a stud....
McCarthy could be but he can't stay healthy...

We need that one guy that can turn the tide.

I look at the top defenses in the league, we have players that match up with their talent.
But we are missing that Stud and a good DC...lol

I think the scheme could be so much better. We don't use Ayers enough blitzing. He was in Luck's face that 2nd half when rushing...

I think every game he lines up at DE he gets a sack. Might just be my imagination but everytime I've noticed him at DE rushing, he ends the game with a sack...

Bottom line i think we need more Dlineman. We are stocked at DT with Martin, Marks Casey, Clayton and Klug. The last two are replaceable. But at DE we basically have Morgan and Wimbley. We could use another guy there before DT.
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ttitansfan4life


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingTitan wrote:
We need a stud....
McCarthy could be but he can't stay healthy...

We need that one guy that can turn the tide.

I look at the top defenses in the league, we have players that match up with their talent.
But we are missing that Stud and a good DC...lol

I think the scheme could be so much better. We don't use Ayers enough blitzing. He was in Luck's face that 2nd half when rushing...

I think every game he lines up at DE he gets a sack. Might just be my imagination but everytime I've noticed him at DE rushing, he ends the game with a sack...

Bottom line i think we need more Dlineman. We are stocked at DT with Martin, Marks Casey, Clayton and Klug. The last two are replaceable. But at DE we basically have Morgan and Wimbley. We could use another guy there before DT.


But you don't pass on a guy like Lotulelei. We have basically 1 starter at DT(Casey) and a bunch of rotation guys.
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s_camp


Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingTitan wrote:
We need a stud....
McCarthy could be but he can't stay healthy...

We need that one guy that can turn the tide.

I look at the top defenses in the league, we have players that match up with their talent.
But we are missing that Stud and a good DC...lol

I think the scheme could be so much better.
We don't use Ayers enough blitzing. He was in Luck's face that 2nd half when rushing...

I think every game he lines up at DE he gets a sack. Might just be my imagination but everytime I've noticed him at DE rushing, he ends the game with a sack...

Bottom line i think we need more Dlineman. We are stocked at DT with Martin, Marks Casey, Clayton and Klug. The last two are replaceable. But at DE we basically have Morgan and Wimbley. We could use another guy there before DT.


You don't like leaving ten foot holes in the line for the RB to blast through? I think it's creative!

Ayers does very well when he's rushing the passer. Damn near better than our two starting DEs.
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rooskie84


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

renndawg37 wrote:
KingTitan wrote:
I personally feel that de is the first pick. If we pick high a defensively end is the value pick.
Or
An defensive tackle. But seeing the players we have at dt I think end ranks higher.

After that a safety and or corner.

I think the pass rush and run defense remain top priority


I want Chance Warmack. Really badly. Then pick defense for the rest of the draft lol. Trade for Aqib Talib. Very Happy


We don't draft Alabama and SEC guys for some reason (even though they're more pro-ready than most other players in the country).
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bfreod2


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s_camp wrote:
KingTitan wrote:
We need a stud....
McCarthy could be but he can't stay healthy...

We need that one guy that can turn the tide.

I look at the top defenses in the league, we have players that match up with their talent.
But we are missing that Stud and a good DC...lol

I think the scheme could be so much better.
We don't use Ayers enough blitzing. He was in Luck's face that 2nd half when rushing...

I think every game he lines up at DE he gets a sack. Might just be my imagination but everytime I've noticed him at DE rushing, he ends the game with a sack...

Bottom line i think we need more Dlineman. We are stocked at DT with Martin, Marks Casey, Clayton and Klug. The last two are replaceable. But at DE we basically have Morgan and Wimbley. We could use another guy there before DT.


You don't like leaving ten foot holes in the line for the RB to blast through? I think it's creative!

Ayers does very well when he's rushing the passer. Damn near better than our two starting DEs.


speaking of ayers rushing the passer

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/10/29/refo-colts-titans-week-8/

"Akeem Ayers rushed with his hand in the ground four times in this game. This is the first time Ayers has done this since Week 9 last season and more than doubles his career snap total as a rush end. Ayers recorded a sack, a batted pass and a hurry from these four snaps."
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KingTitan


Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bfreod2 wrote:
speaking of ayers rushing the passer

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/10/29/refo-colts-titans-week-8/

"Akeem Ayers rushed with his hand in the ground four times in this game. This is the first time Ayers has done this since Week 9 last season and more than doubles his career snap total as a rush end. Ayers recorded a sack, a batted pass and a hurry from these four snaps."


Give this more time at Rush End! I mean for real, he gets it done when he rushes. Not saying make him an End. But on passing downs it couldn't hurt. He isn't top knotch in coverage so let him rush.

I swear, I'll say it again, every game he rushes (at least from what I noticed) he gets a sack.
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