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Apollo Stallion


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 5521
Location: Battle Red State
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Let it be known that I'm already "all in" on Baylor WR Terrence Williams as the Texans #1 and none of you can say he's short or fat. 1,000 yards & 9 TDs in 6 games, folks! That last Baylor bust candidate (Wright) still has double all other rookie receivers production thus far and #2 also went to Baylor (Josh Gordon).


...I can actually get behind Williams. I like what I've seen from him, very smooth athlete with room to grow.

In regards to our favorite Titan - he IS only one of two WRs who stepped into the de-factor #1 role (Justin Blackmon being the other one). I've been impressed with ol' fatty and that anemic Titans offense, however.

EDIT: In regards to T...IF we pull the trigger on a T, I am 99.999% certain it will be Ricky Wagner:

1. He's from Wisconsin, a pipeline program for the Texans
2. He's a former TE who converted to RT and is now playing LT.

He's got a bit of growing to do, as it's reported he's got some sloppy feet and tends to bend at the waste in pass protection, but the athletic ability he has screams ZBS RT.


So let me get this straight, we are going to discount Kendall Wright because he is good enough to get on the field now, while the other high profile guys aren't? Michael Floyd can't beat out Early Doucet or Andre Roberts? Alshon Jeffery can't beat out Devin Hester then gets hurt (wasn't it the little guys who weren't going to be durable?). Rueben Randle can't get on the field unless Hixon and Barden are hurt? AJ Jenkins can't even get active over Moss, Manningham and Kyle Williams? Brian Quick can't beat out Givens, Gibson, and Steve Smith? Stephen Hill can't stay on the field.

Hmm, it seems to me that the 3 guys that are AHEAD of schedule are the smaller slot types I advocated like Wright, Chris Givens, TY Hilton, and now it looks like Ryan Broyles will get his shot. Even on our own squad Keshawn Martin appears to be clearly superior to Poser. The myth of the big 6-4ish prototype receiver needs to continue to die as yet AGAIN the top 20 producing receivers include 50% 6 footish (or sub 6) types with Welker, Cruz, Harvin, Hartline, Steve Smith, Roddy White, Desean Jackson, Antonio Brown, Torrey Smith. Good receivers are good receivers regardless of size (everyday except draft day), but I think in our case where we already have the imposing physical specimen that is AJ, having someone who could actually do damage from the slot both underneath and deep remains the need (and should come before trying to find the heir apparent to AJ). Cromartie couldn't stick on AJ if we had a Torrey Smith type burning them deep or even a Kerley threatening them deep.
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EliteTexan80


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Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
So let me get this straight, we are going to discount Kendall Wright because he is good enough to get on the field now, while the other high profile guys aren't?

Who the hell is discounting him? I just said he was pretty good. Is it not a fact that he's starting, while the remainder of the selections - all of which have an established #1 WR ahead of them that is NOT returning from an ACL/MCL injury - probably isn't the featured WR? While I'm sure that Nate Washington might impress you with garbage stats, I see him for what he is and what he isn't, and he sure as hell isn't Larry Fitzgerald or Brandon Marshall.

Quote:
Michael Floyd can't beat out Early Doucet or Andre Roberts?

Well I'll be damned, you got one. Michael Floyd isn't starting now. Let's throw a parade to the Napolean Complex crew!

Quote:
Alshon Jeffery can't beat out Devin Hester then gets hurt (wasn't it the little guys who weren't going to be durable?).

Might wanna check up on that, because Jeffrey WAS starting for the Bears prior to his hand injury.

Quote:
Rueben Randle can't get on the field unless Hixon and Barden are hurt?

...remind me the last rookie to start day one for Tom Coughlin? Yes, even the most accomplished selections that Coughlin brought in had to sit for a few games at the least. Coughlin simply doesn't start rookies, let alone when he has a deep depth chart at the position.

So if I'm going to catch flack for discounting your boy because he's starting, you better believe that you're gonna catch the same flack because you don't seem to understand how individual coaches operate.

Quote:
Hmm, it seems to me that the 3 guys that are AHEAD of schedule are the smaller slot types I advocated like Wright, Chris Givens, TY Hilton, and now it looks like Ryan Broyles will get his shot.

We're seven weeks into the damn season! They're ahead of schedule now, but a year from now? Five years from now? Who says the big guys aren't going to catch up and eventually overtake these small guys?

You're projecting this curve WAY too early.

Quote:
Even on our own squad Keshawn Martin appears to be clearly superior to Posey. The myth of the big 6-4ish prototype receiver needs to continue to die as yet AGAIN the top 20 producing receivers include 50% 6 footish (or sub 6) types with Welker, Cruz, Harvin, Hartline, Steve Smith, Roddy White, Desean Jackson, Antonio Brown, Torrey Smith.

Ha! Die again - after 6' 5" 241 Vincent Jackson hung up 216 and 2 TDs last week, 6' 4" 207 AJ Green is right now in the running for OPOY with 44/636/7 TDs, 6' 3" 230 Brandon Marshall puts on a clinic last night and has been one of the top five WRs in the NFL this season, 6' 3" 220 Jordy Nelson is still scoring TDs on a top ranked Texans D a full two weeks after that game was done, 6' 3" 220 Larry Fitzgerald and 6' 5" 240 Calvin Johnson are both in the top 10 in production stats (and are having DOWN YEARS) the 6' 4" 225 Marquis Colston is posting career years in all major stat categories, 6' 3" 229 Demaryius Thomas suddenly becoming Peyton's new target and cracking the top 10 in production - but yeah, the myth is dead. Big WRs are so passe. Numbers seem to prove it - I mean, Brian Hartline has one big game and suddenly he's on the list as someone who is better/more productive than the giants at the position.

Makes sense...I think.

Quote:
Good receivers are good receivers regardless of size (everyday except draft day), but I think in our case where we already have the imposing physical specimen that is AJ, having someone who could actually do damage from the slot both underneath and deep remains the need (and should come before trying to find the heir apparent to AJ).

As both of us can see, AJ isn't exactly the same physical specimen that he once was, and is no longer the WR that we all remember. There is a need to have a guy who can do damage in the slot with underneath routes as well as deep - and we FOUND that guy, in the 4th round. Now, how effective would he be if there was no big, lumbering WR taking attention away from the defense? How good would Torrey Smith be if he didn't have 6' 1" 218 Anquan Bolden on the other side? How good would Welker be if he didn't have a 300 lb TE who moves like old AJ in Rob Gronkowski? How good is Roddy White without the big-bodied Julio Jones alongside him, along with the best TE of this generation in Tony Gonzalez?

With the exception of Harvin and Cruz, all of the "small" guys have needed some big time assistance to make their game work as well as it has. Can you say that about someone such as Fitzgerald, who has made stars out of the likes of Andre Roberts and Steve Breaston due to the attention he gets? Can you say that about Calvin Johnson, who has had nothing alongside him for the ride? Can you say that about our own AJ, who held down the fort for YEARS with nothing more than Jacoby Jones and Kevin Walter to draw coverage away?

You're looking for a compliment for AJ, as was I. There was and is a place for a guy like Keshawn Martin, and that is later on in the draft, where we got him. However, I was looking for that guy to REPLACE AJ one day - something you use a 1st or 2nd round pick on. Not my fault we tried to get cute with Rueben Randle and traded down with TB and watched Randle slip to the Giants with pick #64.

Quote:
Cromartie couldn't stick on AJ if we had a Torrey Smith type burning them deep or even a Kerley threatening them deep.

We have a Keshawn Martin, who is a comparable talent to Kerley at the least (however impressive Kerley has looked this season). So, why was Cromartie able to stick on AJ when we in fact DID have that threat?
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Jacobys Homey


Joined: 05 Mar 2008
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Location: BU
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want Terrance Williams.
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EliteTexan80


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Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacobys Homey wrote:
I want Terrance Williams.


Me too. Very Happy
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lumberjackchris


Joined: 14 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
We have a Keshawn Martin, who is a comparable talent to Kerley at the least (however impressive Kerley has looked this season). So, why was Cromartie able to stick on AJ when we in fact DID have that threat?


Um Keshawn isn't in the same breathe as Kerley. To be a DEEP threat you have to beat someone deep and by my account, we've only thrown deep to Martin once and he had ZERO separation and got the ball batted away.
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Wolf6151


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
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Location: Pearland, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want Kawaan Short-DT/NT in the 1st and then Marquess Wilson-WR in the 2nd.
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biggio7


Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 9832
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daniel McCullers from Tennessee. Never really heard of him before but he is huge. Nose Tackle. Listed at 6'8 360.

Edit:
Not a high pick player. He is just a big body. But he doesn't seem to really move or try too hard. He gets double teamed on like every play though. He just doesn't seem to hustle a whole lot.
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Wolf6151


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggio7 wrote:
Daniel McCullers from Tennessee. Never really heard of him before but he is huge. Nose Tackle. Listed at 6'8 360.

Edit:
Not a high pick player. He is just a big body. But he doesn't seem to really move or try too hard. He gets double teamed on like every play though. He just doesn't seem to hustle a whole lot.


6'08" is way to tall for a NT. Guards are going to be able to get under him and stand him up and move him easily. I can't see him getting any leverage or having much agility at that height.
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texansfan


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus Lattimore injury further weakens the upcoming RB draft class. We may be able to package Tate and our first round pick to move into the top-10. If we made a move like that, it woukd be for an impact player that cannot be had later in the draft. WR is an easy assumption, though we would likely go BPA if we could land a Manti Te'o. Wildcard could be a QB like Landry Jones to groom behind Schaub for a few years. Tough to spend a high pick on a QB who may not play for a few years, but if we have a transition plan to replace Schaub, why not invest in his replacement now.
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Texansfan713


Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Posts: 29409
Location: Houston
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
We have a Keshawn Martin, who is a comparable talent to Kerley at the least (however impressive Kerley has looked this season). So, why was Cromartie able to stick on AJ when we in fact DID have that threat?


Um Keshawn isn't in the same breathe as Kerley. To be a DEEP threat you have to beat someone deep and by my account, we've only thrown deep to Martin once and he had ZERO separation and got the ball batted away.


I remember when McShay said on draft day when we picked him that he has elite separation. He hasn't shown it yet. Laughing

Doubt Teo will be on the board when we pick. His stock is going to rise. Seeing him right now vs OU, he has been amazing. I really hope we go WR early. I like Justin Hunter!
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mse326


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

texansfan wrote:
Marcus Lattimore injury further weakens the upcoming RB draft class. We may be able to package Tate and our first round pick to move into the top-10. If we made a move like that, it woukd be for an impact player that cannot be had later in the draft. WR is an easy assumption, though we would likely go BPA if we could land a Manti Te'o. Wildcard could be a QB like Landry Jones to groom behind Schaub for a few years. Tough to spend a high pick on a QB who may not play for a few years, but if we have a transition plan to replace Schaub, why not invest in his replacement now.


Landry Jones? The guy is barely a 3rd rounder let alone top 10.

I don't see us taking a QB. We already have Yates and Keenum being groomed (though I don't think either are starter quality and we'll need better when Matty is gone). But that won't be an issue for a few years now.

If we move up it will either be for a WR or Teo. The only other option is if a pass rusher that we think is a top 5 talent falls and we didn't re-sign Barwin.
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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

starting to gain interest in this draft and my early favorite on ILB for our team is AJ Klein
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Jacobys Homey


Joined: 05 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
starting to gain interest in this draft and my early favorite on ILB for our team is AJ Klein


In the first round?

Jake Knott is a better player. And neither are worth first rounders.
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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacobys Homey wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
starting to gain interest in this draft and my early favorite on ILB for our team is AJ Klein


In the first round?

Jake Knott is a better player. And neither are worth first rounders.


no not first round, I think NT and WR are bigger needs. You could even argue RG or RT are bigger needs, but I feel comfortable with mid round oline guys. Id rather gain a big time wr or nt
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DreDay80


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
Jacobys Homey wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
starting to gain interest in this draft and my early favorite on ILB for our team is AJ Klein


In the first round?

Jake Knott is a better player. And neither are worth first rounders.


no not first round, I think NT and WR are bigger needs. You could even argue RG or RT are bigger needs, but I feel comfortable with mid round oline guys. Id rather gain a big time wr or nt


I'd say go for the big-time receiver. Watching a AJ that's not the same player still command double teams and opening it up for other players just makes the case for a WR even stronger.
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