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Ravens vs Texans GDT: The Battle for AFC Supremacy
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What's More Likely to Happen Sunday?
Arian Foster runs for over 200 yards on our defense.
66%
 66%  [ 14 ]
Ray Rice totals 200 yards combined on their defense.
33%
 33%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 21

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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmorecareful wrote:

Thats the thing though it wasnt just the dallas game I feel like we played even worse against KC but lucked out cause they just flat out suck. Look im a be a Ravens fan whether we go undefeated or we lose every game. But to say we looked like a top 3 team headed into last week (which at 5-1 is what our record indicated) would be lying to myself. Now have I lost faith hell no but we need to get this thing together. I think as suggs gets more healthy the d will improve but we got to get this ego thing in order. Especially on offense.

I'm just wondering, but by top 3 team are you talking about in the NFL.. or in the AFC?

I ask this because in the NFL you're right, we weren't a top three team, there were more impressive teams, but in the AFC.. we're still a top 3 team and if you think we're not, I'd like you to name me two other teams that are better than we are because I'm clearly not seeing it. The collective AFC is just flat out worse than we are.

Is it a bit lucky that the year we decided to be a little less stout defensively, the AFC decided it wanted to be one of the worse conferences in NFL history? Maybe. But we can only deal the hand we were dealt.. and we're doing better with that hand than the other teams- that and our hand just flat out looks better than most of theirs. The Ravens certainly deserved their record and still do. While the collective AFC has been getting destroyed by the NFC- guess which team has looked competent when playing the other conference via the Eagles/Cowboys? Yep, that'd be the Ravens.

No longer referring to you in particular, but I just have to question whether people complaining about the Ravens have taken the time out to watch the game and analyze the seasons of other AFC teams... or if they've only seen the Ravens and suddenly thought to themselves that we're not good. The AFC as a whole has done much worse.
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bmorecareful


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
bmorecareful wrote:

Thats the thing though it wasnt just the dallas game I feel like we played even worse against KC but lucked out cause they just flat out suck. Look im a be a Ravens fan whether we go undefeated or we lose every game. But to say we looked like a top 3 team headed into last week (which at 5-1 is what our record indicated) would be lying to myself. Now have I lost faith hell no but we need to get this thing together. I think as suggs gets more healthy the d will improve but we got to get this ego thing in order. Especially on offense.

I'm just wondering, but by top 3 team are you talking about in the NFL.. or in the AFC?

I ask this because in the NFL you're right, we weren't a top three team, there were more impressive teams, but in the AFC.. we're still a top 3 team and if you think we're not, I'd like you to name me two other teams that are better than we are because I'm clearly not seeing it. The collective AFC is just flat out worse than we are.

Is it a bit lucky that the year we decided to be a little less stout defensively, the AFC decided it wanted to be one of the worse conferences in NFL history? Maybe. But we can only deal the hand we were dealt.. and we're doing better with that hand than the other teams- that and our hand just flat out looks better than most of theirs. The Ravens certainly deserved their record and still do. While the collective AFC has been getting destroyed by the NFC- guess which team has looked competent when playing the other conference via the Eagles/Cowboys? Yep, that'd be the Ravens.

No longer referring to you in particular, but I just have to question whether people complaining about the Ravens have taken the time out to watch the game and analyze the seasons of other AFC teams... or if they've only seen the Ravens and suddenly thought to themselves that we're not good. The AFC as a whole has done much worse.


Well me personally I'm one of those guys that hates everything non Raven so yeah I've noticed everybody else sucking as well but I honestly don't care we need to get our act together. Notice I've never said anything about who is better nor have I made a list ranking us anywhere I'm moreso disappointed in the fact that we are halfway threw the season and can't name one thing we do consistently well. I am pleased with our overall record at this point to be honest I figured this would be the scenario far as our record at this point down to the exact teams we would lose to but I want to win a super bowl. I know that can't be done in October but at the same time this team has the tools to put it all together IMO so u darn right I'm frustrated because I know the Texans aren't 30 points better than us and I know we are better than the 1000 tackles we have missed this year, feel where I'm going with this
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RavensTillIDie


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
No longer referring to you in particular, but I just have to question whether people complaining about the Ravens have taken the time out to watch the game and analyze the seasons of other AFC teams... or if they've only seen the Ravens and suddenly thought to themselves that we're not good. The AFC as a whole has done much worse.


Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with everything you are saying. But ultimately, is that supposed to make us feel any better? What you are implying is that we're amongst the best of the worst. When the aspirations for this team have been Super Bowl or bust for the longest time, I don't think it's any reassurance to state this team is capable of making it to the peak of the AFC - the championship game. Been there, done that. The question for this particular team, devastating injuries aside, has been and will continue to be, are we good enough to WIN a Super Bowl? And in asking that question, it does come down to where do we rank amongst the NFL, not merely the AFC.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this point in time, I don't know where we rank in the AFC right now. Our offense is always a question mark from game to game; it could either be really good or really bad, there's really no inbetween.

Our defense is starting to be the same way, except it's either bad or really bad.

If that's the recipe for a top-3 AFC team, then the AFC really sucks this year.
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Integrity


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensTillIDie wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
No longer referring to you in particular, but I just have to question whether people complaining about the Ravens have taken the time out to watch the game and analyze the seasons of other AFC teams... or if they've only seen the Ravens and suddenly thought to themselves that we're not good. The AFC as a whole has done much worse.


Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with everything you are saying. But ultimately, is that supposed to make us feel any better? What you are implying is that we're amongst the best of the worst. When the aspirations for this team have been Super Bowl or bust for the longest time, I don't think it's any reassurance to state this team is capable of making it to the peak of the AFC - the championship game. Been there, done that. The question for this particular team, devastating injuries aside, has been and will continue to be, are we good enough to WIN a Super Bowl? And in asking that question, it does come down to where do we rank amongst the NFL, not merely the AFC.



Not in week 7 it doesn't. For the past two years, the team that gets hot late in the season has gone on to win the Superbowl. Look at the Giants last year and the Packers before that. This team is capable of becoming dominant later in the year when it matters most. Getting their butts thoroughly kicked last Sunday will hopefully put them on the right path. I agree that we don't look so good compared to the great teams in the league, but, how we stack up to the league's elite doesn't matter right now IMO.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Integrity wrote:
RavensTillIDie wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
No longer referring to you in particular, but I just have to question whether people complaining about the Ravens have taken the time out to watch the game and analyze the seasons of other AFC teams... or if they've only seen the Ravens and suddenly thought to themselves that we're not good. The AFC as a whole has done much worse.


Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with everything you are saying. But ultimately, is that supposed to make us feel any better? What you are implying is that we're amongst the best of the worst. When the aspirations for this team have been Super Bowl or bust for the longest time, I don't think it's any reassurance to state this team is capable of making it to the peak of the AFC - the championship game. Been there, done that. The question for this particular team, devastating injuries aside, has been and will continue to be, are we good enough to WIN a Super Bowl? And in asking that question, it does come down to where do we rank amongst the NFL, not merely the AFC.



Not in week 7 it doesn't. For the past two years, the team that gets hot late in the season has gone on to win the Superbowl. Look at the Giants last year and the Packers before that. This team is capable of becoming dominant later in the year when it matters most. Getting their butts thoroughly kicked last Sunday will hopefully put them on the right path. I agree that we don't look so good compared to the great teams in the league, but, how we stack up to the league's elite doesn't matter right now IMO.


I agree. And I'm not trying to imply that I don't think we are capable of winning it all this year, as a blind homer, I always have and will continue to believe in this team. However, it would be both ignorant and a lie to say at this moment in time we stack up anywhere close to the best teams in the NFL. Obviously a lot can and will change from here to the end of the regular season, but for now, like you said, it ultimately does not matter where we rank at this point in the season because there is a lot of football left to be played. BUT, what I was getting at is that if you are going to make that comparison with this team, there is absolutely not point in trying to sugar coat it and exclude half of the NFL. Given expectations for the last few seasons and going into this year, there's no need to be satisfied with simply being capable of making it to the Championship game yet again.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensTillIDie wrote:
Integrity wrote:
RavensTillIDie wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
No longer referring to you in particular, but I just have to question whether people complaining about the Ravens have taken the time out to watch the game and analyze the seasons of other AFC teams... or if they've only seen the Ravens and suddenly thought to themselves that we're not good. The AFC as a whole has done much worse.


Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with everything you are saying. But ultimately, is that supposed to make us feel any better? What you are implying is that we're amongst the best of the worst. When the aspirations for this team have been Super Bowl or bust for the longest time, I don't think it's any reassurance to state this team is capable of making it to the peak of the AFC - the championship game. Been there, done that. The question for this particular team, devastating injuries aside, has been and will continue to be, are we good enough to WIN a Super Bowl? And in asking that question, it does come down to where do we rank amongst the NFL, not merely the AFC.



Not in week 7 it doesn't. For the past two years, the team that gets hot late in the season has gone on to win the Superbowl. Look at the Giants last year and the Packers before that. This team is capable of becoming dominant later in the year when it matters most. Getting their butts thoroughly kicked last Sunday will hopefully put them on the right path. I agree that we don't look so good compared to the great teams in the league, but, how we stack up to the league's elite doesn't matter right now IMO.


I agree. And I'm not trying to imply that I don't think we are capable of winning it all this year, as a blind homer, I always have and will continue to believe in this team. However, it would be both ignorant and a lie to say at this moment in time we stack up anywhere close to the best teams in the NFL. Obviously a lot can and will change from here to the end of the regular season, but for now, like you said, it ultimately does not matter where we rank at this point in the season because there is a lot of football left to be played. BUT, what I was getting at is that if you are going to make that comparison with this team, there is absolutely not point in trying to sugar coat it and exclude half of the NFL. Given expectations for the last few seasons and going into this year, there's no need to be satisfied with simply being capable of making it to the Championship game yet again.


There is a big difference between saying that we stack up with the best teams in the NFL and simply stating that we're still a good team (better than 16/17) and "deserved" our wins.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
RavensTillIDie wrote:
Integrity wrote:
RavensTillIDie wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
No longer referring to you in particular, but I just have to question whether people complaining about the Ravens have taken the time out to watch the game and analyze the seasons of other AFC teams... or if they've only seen the Ravens and suddenly thought to themselves that we're not good. The AFC as a whole has done much worse.


Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with everything you are saying. But ultimately, is that supposed to make us feel any better? What you are implying is that we're amongst the best of the worst. When the aspirations for this team have been Super Bowl or bust for the longest time, I don't think it's any reassurance to state this team is capable of making it to the peak of the AFC - the championship game. Been there, done that. The question for this particular team, devastating injuries aside, has been and will continue to be, are we good enough to WIN a Super Bowl? And in asking that question, it does come down to where do we rank amongst the NFL, not merely the AFC.



Not in week 7 it doesn't. For the past two years, the team that gets hot late in the season has gone on to win the Superbowl. Look at the Giants last year and the Packers before that. This team is capable of becoming dominant later in the year when it matters most. Getting their butts thoroughly kicked last Sunday will hopefully put them on the right path. I agree that we don't look so good compared to the great teams in the league, but, how we stack up to the league's elite doesn't matter right now IMO.


I agree. And I'm not trying to imply that I don't think we are capable of winning it all this year, as a blind homer, I always have and will continue to believe in this team. However, it would be both ignorant and a lie to say at this moment in time we stack up anywhere close to the best teams in the NFL. Obviously a lot can and will change from here to the end of the regular season, but for now, like you said, it ultimately does not matter where we rank at this point in the season because there is a lot of football left to be played. BUT, what I was getting at is that if you are going to make that comparison with this team, there is absolutely not point in trying to sugar coat it and exclude half of the NFL. Given expectations for the last few seasons and going into this year, there's no need to be satisfied with simply being capable of making it to the Championship game yet again.


There is a big difference between saying that we stack up with the best teams in the NFL and simply stating that we're still a good team (better than 16/17) and "deserved" our wins.


Yes. And? Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensTillIDie wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
RavensTillIDie wrote:
Integrity wrote:
RavensTillIDie wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
No longer referring to you in particular, but I just have to question whether people complaining about the Ravens have taken the time out to watch the game and analyze the seasons of other AFC teams... or if they've only seen the Ravens and suddenly thought to themselves that we're not good. The AFC as a whole has done much worse.


Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with everything you are saying. But ultimately, is that supposed to make us feel any better? What you are implying is that we're amongst the best of the worst. When the aspirations for this team have been Super Bowl or bust for the longest time, I don't think it's any reassurance to state this team is capable of making it to the peak of the AFC - the championship game. Been there, done that. The question for this particular team, devastating injuries aside, has been and will continue to be, are we good enough to WIN a Super Bowl? And in asking that question, it does come down to where do we rank amongst the NFL, not merely the AFC.



Not in week 7 it doesn't. For the past two years, the team that gets hot late in the season has gone on to win the Superbowl. Look at the Giants last year and the Packers before that. This team is capable of becoming dominant later in the year when it matters most. Getting their butts thoroughly kicked last Sunday will hopefully put them on the right path. I agree that we don't look so good compared to the great teams in the league, but, how we stack up to the league's elite doesn't matter right now IMO.


I agree. And I'm not trying to imply that I don't think we are capable of winning it all this year, as a blind homer, I always have and will continue to believe in this team. However, it would be both ignorant and a lie to say at this moment in time we stack up anywhere close to the best teams in the NFL. Obviously a lot can and will change from here to the end of the regular season, but for now, like you said, it ultimately does not matter where we rank at this point in the season because there is a lot of football left to be played. BUT, what I was getting at is that if you are going to make that comparison with this team, there is absolutely not point in trying to sugar coat it and exclude half of the NFL. Given expectations for the last few seasons and going into this year, there's no need to be satisfied with simply being capable of making it to the Championship game yet again.


There is a big difference between saying that we stack up with the best teams in the NFL and simply stating that we're still a good team (better than 16/17) and "deserved" our wins.


Yes. And? Laughing


Just that I don't think you'll find anyone in here at this point in the season saying that we are one of the best teams in the NFL right now.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensTillIDie wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
No longer referring to you in particular, but I just have to question whether people complaining about the Ravens have taken the time out to watch the game and analyze the seasons of other AFC teams... or if they've only seen the Ravens and suddenly thought to themselves that we're not good. The AFC as a whole has done much worse.


Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with everything you are saying. But ultimately, is that supposed to make us feel any better? What you are implying is that we're amongst the best of the worst. When the aspirations for this team have been Super Bowl or bust for the longest time, I don't think it's any reassurance to state this team is capable of making it to the peak of the AFC - the championship game. Been there, done that. The question for this particular team, devastating injuries aside, has been and will continue to be, are we good enough to WIN a Super Bowl? And in asking that question, it does come down to where do we rank amongst the NFL, not merely the AFC.

As was stated, winning the Super Bowl is about getting hot at the right time. And while I do doubt our chances at winning a Super Bowl with the rash of injuries we've seen... and more importantly with having Dean Pees as our defensive coordinator, I think your response failed to include a key part of my analysis in your post:

diamondbull424 wrote:
The Ravens certainly deserved their record and still do. While the collective AFC has been getting destroyed by the NFC- guess which team has looked competent when playing the other conference via the Eagles/Cowboys? Yep, that'd be the Ravens.

So while I won't deny that the Ravens haven't been world beaters and might not be a top 3 team in the NFL, but they have deserved their record and have been competitive with the NFC to this point.

The Ravens offense has proven to be weak when the left side of our OL can't hold up. That will come back to bite us whether we're facing an elite pass rushing unit from the AFC or the NFC and will depend mostly on our LG play against the interior DL we go against. Oher has done a nice job of providing a consistent pocket most of the time.. and while he's given up sacks, he's given Flacco the pocket you look for as a QB... Flacco generally trusts him. The LG hasn't been so consistent, but Bobbie Williams has done a better job in pass pro and in recognizing blitzes than what I saw from Harewood and it'll benefit us down the road and has already benefited us IMO. We got better with that move. Williams will get worked, but its usually in bunches rather than consistently. And the key point is that our left side needs to be consistent.

But the NFL is a matchups league, we just don't matchup well with the Texans scheme for whatever reason. So we got throttled. Even if we play well, they'll be our toughest out in the future. I also question how we'll matchup against the Broncos speed rushers along the edge and their 43 defense plus a Peyton Manning led offense.

Our fan expectations have nothing to do with the reality of where we find ourselves. We lost Suggs to start the season and that had an impact on our run defense and pass rush. Now we've lost our best cornerback that even if we see improvements from Jim Cary... we'll miss his presence in being able to guard those quick slot receivers like Wes Welker come playoff time. We lost Ray Lewis, who was still a leader on this defense. Haloti Ngata is once again playing through a serious injury.

And most importantly, we have arguably the worst defensive coordinator in the league who like Rex Ryan would leave HUGE holes in coverage, but unlike Rex Ryan wouldn't press WRs at the LOS to at least give our pass rush a chance at getting to the QB... so what we see is QBs seeing max blitz and just going short curl routes to their WRs that have space for a nice 7 yard gain because our corners who excel in press man... are inexplicably playing 7 yards off their guy and don't have the natural quickness to close.

This team is once again an AFCCG contender despite our big time flaws. I tend to take things one step at a time. We'll need to beat out the collective AFC to even see the Super Bowl. I think we have a chance at doing that. If we get to a Super Bowl then it'll likely come down to matchups and of the top NFC teams we'd matchup best against probably the Packers. Great offense, but a 34 defense that has some weaknesses to it that Flacco could exploit. We could compete with them in a shootout and it could come down to if our defense could force more turnovers against them than theirs against ours... and how inept Pees proves to be.

But winning HFA against the AFC has to be the first priority for any Super Bowl chance... and we're in a decent position to do that- it'll probably take a 13-3 record to get it done though, so we'll have our work cut out for us in just that phase.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
Just that I don't think you'll find anyone in here at this point in the season saying that we are one of the best teams in the NFL right now.


Gotcha. And I understand that, but I just wanted to speak my piece on trying to sugar coat the facts. The facts are we played horribly Sunday, right now we are not amongst the leagues best, and we aren't meeting expectations to this point (wins aside). All that could obviously change and comparisons are fairly futile at this point, but there's no point in trying to make this team look any better than it really is by saying we're amongst the best in the AFC when the AFC as a whole has looked like a fairly big joke this year (Texans aside). We're a good team with a lot to improve on, I don't want anyone thinking otherwise. Just wanted to make that clear. Razz
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensTillIDie wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
Just that I don't think you'll find anyone in here at this point in the season saying that we are one of the best teams in the NFL right now.


Gotcha. And I understand that, but I just wanted to speak my piece on trying to sugar coat the facts. The facts are we played horribly Sunday, right now we are not amongst the leagues best, and we aren't meeting expectations to this point (wins aside). All that could obviously change and comparisons are fairly futile at this point, but there's no point in trying to make this team look any better than it really is by saying we're amongst the best in the AFC when the AFC as a whole has looked like a fairly big joke this year (Texans aside). We're a good team with a lot to improve on, I don't want anyone thinking otherwise. Just wanted to make that clear. Razz


But have we not? This is a team that lost the reigning DPOY. Now it's lost a top 5 CB in this league just as it gets back Suggs. We've had a lot of turnover defensively and lost arguably the best defensive coordinator we've had outside of maybe Marvin Lewis... so there was bound to be a decline defensively.

Sure our defense is performing worse than expected, but who would've thought going into this season that Cam Cameron would be this... reasonable. I'd argue that what we lost defensively with competent coordinating, we've gained offensively.

Going into this year we had what looked like one of the most difficult schedules in all of football... and it's still an incredibly difficult schedule.

There were some who had expectations that we'd struggle and end up 9-7 or 8-8 before the season. That's still in the realm of possibilities obviously, but as of right now we're on pace to be in that 13-3 to 11-5 area record wise... again. I'd argue that this team is actually exceeding expectations.

I don't know what expectation there was besides winning. We blew the Bengals out and maybe that raised everyone's expectations, but that game was also a lot closer than the score indicated.

Outside of the KC game and MAYBE the Texans game (which I thought we'd either win close or get blown out) I can't really point to a game where I thought to myself, "we're really under-performing to my expectations". The games have mostly played out the way I thought they would... the only disappointment is that the final scores have generally been higher with our defense struggling... but with Dean Pees as our DC, most fans should realistically realign their expectations from this point out... he's got to be one of, if not THE worst defensive coordinator in the league.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
RavensTillIDie wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
RavensTillIDie wrote:
Integrity wrote:
RavensTillIDie wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
No longer referring to you in particular, but I just have to question whether people complaining about the Ravens have taken the time out to watch the game and analyze the seasons of other AFC teams... or if they've only seen the Ravens and suddenly thought to themselves that we're not good. The AFC as a whole has done much worse.


Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with everything you are saying. But ultimately, is that supposed to make us feel any better? What you are implying is that we're amongst the best of the worst. When the aspirations for this team have been Super Bowl or bust for the longest time, I don't think it's any reassurance to state this team is capable of making it to the peak of the AFC - the championship game. Been there, done that. The question for this particular team, devastating injuries aside, has been and will continue to be, are we good enough to WIN a Super Bowl? And in asking that question, it does come down to where do we rank amongst the NFL, not merely the AFC.



Not in week 7 it doesn't. For the past two years, the team that gets hot late in the season has gone on to win the Superbowl. Look at the Giants last year and the Packers before that. This team is capable of becoming dominant later in the year when it matters most. Getting their butts thoroughly kicked last Sunday will hopefully put them on the right path. I agree that we don't look so good compared to the great teams in the league, but, how we stack up to the league's elite doesn't matter right now IMO.


I agree. And I'm not trying to imply that I don't think we are capable of winning it all this year, as a blind homer, I always have and will continue to believe in this team. However, it would be both ignorant and a lie to say at this moment in time we stack up anywhere close to the best teams in the NFL. Obviously a lot can and will change from here to the end of the regular season, but for now, like you said, it ultimately does not matter where we rank at this point in the season because there is a lot of football left to be played. BUT, what I was getting at is that if you are going to make that comparison with this team, there is absolutely not point in trying to sugar coat it and exclude half of the NFL. Given expectations for the last few seasons and going into this year, there's no need to be satisfied with simply being capable of making it to the Championship game yet again.


There is a big difference between saying that we stack up with the best teams in the NFL and simply stating that we're still a good team (better than 16/17) and "deserved" our wins.


Yes. And? Laughing


Just that I don't think you'll find anyone in here at this point in the season saying that we are one of the best teams in the NFL right now.


*raises hand and starts jumping around in the back of the classroom saying "MEEE MEEE MEE!!!!!"*
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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