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The HC of the 2013 Cleveland Browns is...
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2013's Cleveland Browns HC
Pat Shurmur
14%
 14%  [ 6 ]
Currently Employed HC
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Retired HC
26%
 26%  [ 11 ]
Highly Regarded Assistant
19%
 19%  [ 8 ]
College Coach
17%
 17%  [ 7 ]
Second Chancer
9%
 9%  [ 4 ]
Wild Card
12%
 12%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 41

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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 31689
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:

I'll take experience over a rook learning on the job. I think that experience, both success and failure, are great teaching tools and people are better off for it as it can make them more successful in the future.


Out of curiosity, who other than Bill Belichick, managed to recover from a terrible first job and went on to have success in the their second? Im asking because I do not know the answer.



Great question. I dont know either. Its like asking how many people's second marriages are better than their first. For those that dont learn its worse. For those that learn its better.


I know plenty of coaches (not in the NFL) who have gone through ups and downs in their coaching careers and I have never known one to say that they are worse off for it - including the coach I worked with last fall that set the record for the most wins in the NCAA. I think its just one of those things in life. We all fail at times. Thats not the issue. Its how we get back up and move on that is important. Coach... player... marriage... work... family problem... learning to ride a bike... Wink I'll take the experience and wisdom over a rookie learning on the job.


And I'll take the better candidate, who is usually not the guy who failed in his first stop.


like Shurmur...


like mike tomlin, like mike mccarthy, like mike smith, like gary kubiak, like jim harbaugh, like lovie smith

and hell if Shurmur gets more than 2 years, then yeah, maybe Shurmur


tomlin had a great team to work with (HoF QB)
Mccarthy had a great team to work with (Hof QB)
Mike Smith had great potential players to work with (#1 overall QB, AP RB, Stud WR)
Gary Kubiak built that team up (AP WR Stud DE)
jim harbaugh had some good talent to work with (AP LB AP RB ROY LB)
Lovie Smith had a decent defense to work with (Hof LB)

Shurmur got no offseason to work with his team his first year. a horrible QB, a pansy of a RB, no talent at WR, and a extremely young defense

the coaches you named fell into very good situations
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Drew_Carey


Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Posts: 1478
Location: Seattle - Cleveland
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:

I'll take experience over a rook learning on the job. I think that experience, both success and failure, are great teaching tools and people are better off for it as it can make them more successful in the future.


Out of curiosity, who other than Bill Belichick, managed to recover from a terrible first job and went on to have success in the their second? Im asking because I do not know the answer.



Great question. I dont know either. Its like asking how many people's second marriages are better than their first. For those that dont learn its worse. For those that learn its better.


I know plenty of coaches (not in the NFL) who have gone through ups and downs in their coaching careers and I have never known one to say that they are worse off for it - including the coach I worked with last fall that set the record for the most wins in the NCAA. I think its just one of those things in life. We all fail at times. Thats not the issue. Its how we get back up and move on that is important. Coach... player... marriage... work... family problem... learning to ride a bike... Wink I'll take the experience and wisdom over a rookie learning on the job.


And I'll take the better candidate, who is usually not the guy who failed in his first stop.


like Shurmur...


like mike tomlin, like mike mccarthy, like mike smith, like gary kubiak, like jim harbaugh, like lovie smith

and hell if Shurmur gets more than 2 years, then yeah, maybe Shurmur


Mike Tomlin had 7 years NFL coaching experience and came into a great team with a very experienced staff and a very experienced team.

Mike McCarthy had been coaching the NFL since 93!!! and its the Green Bay Packers for Gods sake!!! Talk about stable environment.

Mike Smith had 8 years coaching the NFL, and 16 years coaching in college... I wouldnt call him a rookie

gary kubiak played in the NFL for 8 years, and coached in the NFL 11-12 years before he got HC position.

jim harbaugh played int he NFL for 14 years? was a college Head Coach TWICE

lovie smith started coaching in 1980.


Im not sure your point, but these guys had pretty good resumes...

I NEVER said only candidates with previous NFL HC experience should be conisdered, but rather that candidates with previous HC experience should be considered favorably for their experience given this extremely young team and unstable organization.
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 45684
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew_Carey wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:

I'll take experience over a rook learning on the job. I think that experience, both success and failure, are great teaching tools and people are better off for it as it can make them more successful in the future.


Out of curiosity, who other than Bill Belichick, managed to recover from a terrible first job and went on to have success in the their second? Im asking because I do not know the answer.



Great question. I dont know either. Its like asking how many people's second marriages are better than their first. For those that dont learn its worse. For those that learn its better.


I know plenty of coaches (not in the NFL) who have gone through ups and downs in their coaching careers and I have never known one to say that they are worse off for it - including the coach I worked with last fall that set the record for the most wins in the NCAA. I think its just one of those things in life. We all fail at times. Thats not the issue. Its how we get back up and move on that is important. Coach... player... marriage... work... family problem... learning to ride a bike... Wink I'll take the experience and wisdom over a rookie learning on the job.


And I'll take the better candidate, who is usually not the guy who failed in his first stop.


like Shurmur...


like mike tomlin, like mike mccarthy, like mike smith, like gary kubiak, like jim harbaugh, like lovie smith

and hell if Shurmur gets more than 2 years, then yeah, maybe Shurmur


Mike Tomlin had 7 years NFL coaching experience and came into a great team with a very experienced staff and a very experienced team.

Mike McCarthy had been coaching the NFL since 93!!! and its the Green Bay Packers for Gods sake!!! Talk about stable environment.

Mike Smith had 8 years coaching the NFL, and 16 years coaching in college... I wouldnt call him a rookie

gary kubiak played in the NFL for 8 years, and coached in the NFL 11-12 years before he got HC position.

jim harbaugh played int he NFL for 14 years? was a college Head Coach TWICE

lovie smith started coaching in 1980.


Im not sure your point, but these guys had pretty good resumes...

I NEVER said only candidates with previous NFL HC experience should be conisdered, but rather that candidates with previous HC experience should be considered favorably for their experience given this extremely young team and unstable organization.


Everyone save Jim, when they were hired- everyone said

who?

also, Pat had a pretty good resume, seeing as how he's been a coach for 22 years, 14 years in the NFL, 12 years prior to being a HC.

Also, Mccarthy's record before going to an UNSTABLE packers was pretty bad, seeing as how he was the OC of one of the worst offenses in SF.

Sean Payton was a who? hiring as well.

Rookie head coaches doin good.
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Mastercheddaar


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 5027
Location: Northeast Ohio.. Obviously
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:07 pm    Post subject: hmmm Reply with quote

Charlie Day All the Way! Just hope he doesn't cut the brakes.

that is all

Mastercheddaar
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bosko1616


Joined: 22 Oct 2010
Posts: 2018
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rex Ryan ...
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Doc Shakalu


Joined: 06 Jan 2011
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:

I'll take experience over a rook learning on the job. I think that experience, both success and failure, are great teaching tools and people are better off for it as it can make them more successful in the future.


Out of curiosity, who other than Bill Belichick, managed to recover from a terrible first job and went on to have success in the their second? Im asking because I do not know the answer.


Belichick, Dungy, Shanahan, Coughlin. They weren't necessarily terrible, but they were successful retreads. For every Tomlin and Harbaugh you have a Raheem Morris or Josh McDaniels.
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bungleodeon


Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 9616
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc Shakalu wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:

I'll take experience over a rook learning on the job. I think that experience, both success and failure, are great teaching tools and people are better off for it as it can make them more successful in the future.


Out of curiosity, who other than Bill Belichick, managed to recover from a terrible first job and went on to have success in the their second? Im asking because I do not know the answer.


Belichick, Dungy, Shanahan, Coughlin. They weren't necessarily terrible, but they were successful retreads. For every Tomlin and Harbaugh you have a Raheem Morris or Josh McDaniels.


Not to nit pick, but Coughlin was far from being unsuccessful in his stint in Jacksonville, at least in my opinion. Dungy certainly was successful in TB unless the only measure of success is whether or not you won a super bowl, and if that is the measuring stick, there are only so many coaches that can even be talked about, therefore this whole topic is pretty stupid.
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qball


Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 31
Location: PA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about Brad Seely?

He was with the Browns during the Mangini era...when the Browns had very good special teams. He is the assistant HC and special teams coach with the 49er's. He is very intelligent and would be a first time HC.
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dawgdish


Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 2344
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

qball wrote:
What about Brad Seely?

He was with the Browns during the Mangini era...when the Browns had very good special teams. He is the assistant HC and special teams coach with the 49er's. He is very intelligent and would be a first time HC.


I kind of like this idea
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Drew_Carey


Joined: 10 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dawgdish wrote:
qball wrote:
What about Brad Seely?

He was with the Browns during the Mangini era...when the Browns had very good special teams. He is the assistant HC and special teams coach with the 49er's. He is very intelligent and would be a first time HC.


I kind of like this idea


He would be a potential Good candidate
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winston Moss Asst HC LB's Greenbay....
Its who I wanted over Shermer...
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Drew_Carey


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Holmgren?

Holmgren said he misses coaching and hinted at a return to the sideline.

I don't know, I do miss the coaching part. I want to feel like I'm contributing. If I could help one player or one coach be a little better and I feel like I'm contributing, that could happen."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8542253/mike-holmgren-regrets-cleveland-browns-win-more
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LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 7944
Location: CINCINNATI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew_Carey wrote:
Mike Holmgren?

Holmgren said he misses coaching and hinted at a return to the sideline.

I don't know, I do miss the coaching part. I want to feel like I'm contributing. If I could help one player or one coach be a little better and I feel like I'm contributing, that could happen."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8542253/mike-holmgren-regrets-cleveland-browns-win-more


No thanks.

The guy didn't really commit to what amounts to a part time job as 'President', I certainly don't want him to be accountable for a job that requires 80hrs + per week.

I'll take a guy who's still hungry and wants to work and coach.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what its' worth (not much), my opinion about a HC selection has not changed:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=6002819#6002819

Quote:
In future/current head coaches I look for 5 things (which play into my list from the "What do you want in the next head coach" discussion).

1. Leadership: Are they able to lead men.
2. Defensive Progression/Quarterback Development: For D-minded guys I want to see steady improvement in the statistical and fundamental success of a defense especially in play design and specifically for the 3-4, Linebacker development. For O-minded guys I want to see a QB who has developed.
3. "Coolness": When things go wild, how cool does he stay?
4. Communication Skills
5. The "It" Factor: This is my eye ball check, does he look like a head coach to me.


And for what its worth (again, not much) I believe that Shurmur has at least 2 of those (Coolness, and QB development) but the first and last have not been proven and the 4th doesn't look so hot.
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BrownieTheElf


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick Dennison?
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