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Mythodycle


Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 279
Location: Washington, DC
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see your Sean Taylor not being killed, and raise you a Ryan Clark never being let go, thus negating the disaster that was Adam Archuleta. It would have also allowed us to draft Patrick Willis or Darrelle Revis instead of LaRon Landry.

I wish we stayed out of the supplemental draft, and took Navarro Bowman with our 3rd rounder that year. I personally, was screaming for them to take him before San Fran did. I wish we drafted DeMarcus Ware instead of Carlos Rogers.... I wish Jerry Jones went to get Haynesworth instead of Snyder. So many of our moves could have put us in such a better position. It's frustrating.

Brick wall d'oh!

I'd be willing to take a trip to see the guy in The Booth At The End for this to have been our past.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mythodycle wrote:
I see your Sean Taylor not being killed, and raise you a Ryan Clark never being let go, thus negating the disaster that was Adam Archuleta. It would have also allowed us to draft Patrick Willis or Darrelle Revis instead of LaRon Landry.

I wish we stayed out of the supplemental draft, and took Navarro Bowman with our 3rd rounder that year. I personally, was screaming for them to take him before San Fran did. I wish we drafted DeMarcus Ware instead of Carlos Rogers.... I wish Jerry Jones went to get Haynesworth instead of Snyder. So many of our moves could have put us in such a better position. It's frustrating.

Brick wall d'oh!

I'd be willing to take a trip to see the guy in The Booth At The End for this to have been our past.
i got it! This is the true mmqb Laughing

1. Retain Antonio Pierce
2. Draft Aaron Rodgers instead of Carlos
2. Retain Ryan Clark
3. Draft Patrick Willis instead of Laron Landry
4. Sean Taylor lives
6. Draft Navarro Bowman to be the eventual replacement for Antonio Pierce
7. Retain Brandon Lloyd to go with the current Wrs
8. Not sign Haynesworth and use the $ wisely throughout the roster to get good players and build better depth throughout the roster.

Right now our roster would look like this:

Qb- Rodgers, Cousins
RB- Same
FB- same
Te- same
OL- TWilliams, Kory L, Montgomery, Chester, Polumbus or Jonathan Martin (2nd round Offensive Tackle pick)
Wr- Lloyd, Garçon, Moss, Hankerson, Robinson, Briscoe, Banks

We probably wouldn't have signed Morgan because of our depth at WR and his cost

De- same
Nt- same
Olb- Same
Ilb- Bowman, Willis, Riley, Alexander, Robinson
Cb- Claiborne (instead of Griffin), Hall, Wilson, Crawford
Ss- Ryan Clark, Brandon Taylor (instead of Leribeus)
FS- Sean Taylor, Gomes

If we had drafted Aaron Rodgers we wouldn't be looking to draft Robert Griffin. We would have drafted the best available DB given how poor our corners are. We would have taken Morris Claiborne. We would have retained our 2nd round pick and taken the best available OT, Jonathan Martin to fix another area where we have a big problem RT. in round 3, we would have drafted Brandon Taylor, SS Lsu to develop to take over for the aging Ryan Clark when he retires. The rest of the draft would have been the same.
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Mythodycle


Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 279
Location: Washington, DC
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not so fast Turtle... not quite a MMQB situation with me. Just an anti-Cerrato approach.

I don't think it's quite that simple. While we are traveling down this path of the Chaos Theory, lets look at a couple alternate realities.

Aaron Rodgers may not be the QB he is today if he hadn't had the time to sit and develop behind Favre for those years. If GB picked Campbell first, we might be saying the same about him today.

The possibilities are endless, but in the end, I think RG3 is too rare of a talent for anyone to pass up. So if we were still anywhere in the vicinity, I think we could've still made a move. Especially after the years that Cam and Vick had prior to his draft.

Truthfully, I wouldn't be surprised to see some secondary problem fixed in FA. Let's not forget what happened when Shanahan had a young dominant RB and a glaring need in the secondary last time... Speaking of which, I wish we never traded the (then) best CB in the league.

Any chance that Rex will bite on Alfred Morris for Revis and a 2nd rounder??? LOL
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Brian23


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you'd retain Lloyd why? He was oh so amazing for us right? Laughing
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Mythodycle


Joined: 15 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
And you'd retain Lloyd why? He was oh so amazing for us right? Laughing


I was thinking the same thing...
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mike23md


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scratches head at Brandon Lloyd comment...

I dont know if I would trade Rodgers for Griffin III. I have been pretty happy with what has been done here in Washington and we have gotten really really young, minus Fletcher of course. The secondary is in need of help and some of the draft picks sometimes make me do a double take, but all in all, we have some really good pieces in place.

I think that if Taylor lives, Landry stays and plays his actual position. Would much rather have Landry for the run game as the SS than Meriweather, Doughty, or any other S we have had since then.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
And you'd retain Lloyd why? He was oh so amazing for us right? Laughing
i blame Gibbs for that. They didn't like his practice habits or whatever but its clear the guy has talent. They should have treated the situation differently IMHO. It's not like he was a trouble maker off the field like Haynesworth, TWill and Fred Davis were. I really think they screwed the pooch on the way they handled Lloyd when he was traded here. I remember him getting in a few games and making big plays for us but they didn't consistently play him.
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mike23md


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
And you'd retain Lloyd why? He was oh so amazing for us right? Laughing
i blame Gibbs for that. They didn't like his practice habits or whatever but its clear the guy has talent. They should have treated the situation differently IMHO. It's not like he was a trouble maker off the field like Haynesworth, TWill and Fred Davis were. I really think they screwed the pooch on the way they handled Lloyd when he was traded here. I remember him getting in a few games and making big plays for us but they didn't consistently play him.


But what did he do here? And since he has left, he has produced but has not found a home in either Denver, St. Louis or Chicago. He had one productive year in the 3 years in Denver where he had nearly 1500 yards receiving.

Traded to St. Louis and adds 700 yards in 11 games.

Signs with New England and through 7 games, he has 35 receptions for 407 yards and 1 TD. Not much production in a pass happy offense.

In Washington, his first year here, he had 23 receptions for 365 yards and no TD's. His second year was pretty much non existent.

Even in San Fran, he never got over 800 yards in a year. He was not that productive and the Skins wasted picks on a WR that wasn't really going to give them much, and it showed. He didnt get a raw deal, he didnt accept his role and talked his way out of Washington. He did not have a work ethic and didnt want to put in the time or effort.

It was not because of the coaching staff, it was the expectation of him to spread the offense and be the deep threat making plays. When that didnt happen, he showed his attitude. He may have not been in trouble off field, but he created trouble on the field and in the locker room and as a team promoted sport, that just cant happen.

And we saw with Lavar Arrington that those kind of attitudes will not be tolerated by Gibbs and staff.

Lloyd was not needed here and the Skins made the mistake of trading for him.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mythodycle wrote:
Not so fast Turtle... not quite a MMQB situation with me. Just an anti-Cerrato approach.
well same here. I wouldn't have done any if things Cerrato did.
Quote:

I don't think it's quite that simple. While we are traveling down this path of the Chaos Theory, lets look at a couple alternate realities.

Aaron Rodgers may not be the QB he is today if he hadn't had the time to sit and develop behind Favre for those years. If GB picked Campbell first, we might be saying the same about him today.
ehh I doubt it.maybe Rodgers wouldn't be quite the stud he is today but there was a reason why for most of the 2004 CBF season scouts and gms thought he should go first. He was the best qb in that draft and he's proven so. He would have been a good qb here also, I believe.

Quote:
The possibilities are endless, but in the end, I think RG3 is too rare of a talent for anyone to pass up. So if we were still anywhere in the vicinity, I think we could've still made a move. Especially after the years that Cam and Vick had prior to his draft.
well yeah, if we hadn't drafted Rodgers. In my scenario though, we don't pass on Rodgers in 05, meaning, in the 2012 draft we wouldn't need a qb in round 1.

Nothing aginst Griffin, I think he's everything we hoped for and more, but if we had taken Rodgers in 05, we wouldn't have traded up to draft griffin. We would have taken bpa @ 6.

Quote:
Truthfully, I wouldn't be surprised to see some secondary problem fixed in FA. Let's not forget what happened when Shanahan had a young dominant RB and a glaring need in the secondary last time... Speaking of which, I wish we never traded the (then) best CB in the league.
yeah, I wish we never traded champ either. Champ was gone for multiple reasons, and one of them was personal, it had nothing to do with football it was because he was cheating on his wife and in order to save his marriage he was told he had to get out of dc.

The other was I think he was tired of what Snyder had done to the play off team which Champ was a part of in 99. Champ wanted to win and he thought he would win more in Denver than in Washington with a clueless nut as his opener and it turns out Champ was right about that.

I think we will add DBs in FA and the draft. I really don't see us trading for any, to me that's just trading away valuable resources when other players are available in the draft or "free" agency.

Quote:
Any chance that Rex will bite on Alfred Morris for Revis and a 2nd rounder??? LOL
difference being, Revis just tore his ACL. I don't think we will see Revis in a redskins uniform,.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
And you'd retain Lloyd why? He was oh so amazing for us right? Laughing
i blame Gibbs for that. They didn't like his practice habits or whatever but its clear the guy has talent. They should have treated the situation differently IMHO. It's not like he was a trouble maker off the field like Haynesworth, TWill and Fred Davis were. I really think they screwed the pooch on the way they handled Lloyd when he was traded here. I remember him getting in a few games and making big plays for us but they didn't consistently play him.


But what did he do here? And since he has left, he has produced but has not found a home in either Denver, St. Louis or Chicago. He had one productive year in the 3 years in Denver where he had nearly 1500 yards receiving.

Traded to St. Louis and adds 700 yards in 11 games.

Signs with New England and through 7 games, he has 35 receptions for 407 yards and 1 TD. Not much production in a pass happy offense.

In Washington, his first year here, he had 23 receptions for 365 yards and no TD's. His second year was pretty much non existent.

Even in San Fran, he never got over 800 yards in a year. He was not that productive and the Skins wasted picks on a WR that wasn't really going to give them much, and it showed. He didnt get a raw deal, he didnt accept his role and talked his way out of Washington. He did not have a work ethic and didnt want to put in the time or effort.

It was not because of the coaching staff, it was the expectation of him to spread the offense and be the deep threat making plays. When that didnt happen, he showed his attitude. He may have not been in trouble off field, but he created trouble on the field and in the locker room and as a team promoted sport, that just cant happen.

And we saw with Lavar Arrington that those kind of attitudes will not be tolerated by Gibbs and staff.

Lloyd was not needed here and the Skins made the mistake of trading for him.
all I know is, is that Lloyd was a better option than Randle El, Thomas, Kelly and Gaffney. I do think it was a mistake that we traded for him, but once he was here, I think Gibbs and company should have worked with him better to get him to be the productive wr he was while he was in Denver. It's pretty clear he has the talent in him to be a good to great wr, the problem was our coaching staff didn't know what buttons to push to get him there. It seemed to me that we really didn't try hard enough with him.

yeah and our defense was worse in 06 when we got rid of Lavar. coincidence, I think not. Lavar was the leader of our D from 2000-05 we didn't replace that leadership till we signed Fletch in 07.
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mike23md


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
And you'd retain Lloyd why? He was oh so amazing for us right? Laughing
i blame Gibbs for that. They didn't like his practice habits or whatever but its clear the guy has talent. They should have treated the situation differently IMHO. It's not like he was a trouble maker off the field like Haynesworth, TWill and Fred Davis were. I really think they screwed the pooch on the way they handled Lloyd when he was traded here. I remember him getting in a few games and making big plays for us but they didn't consistently play him.


But what did he do here? And since he has left, he has produced but has not found a home in either Denver, St. Louis or Chicago. He had one productive year in the 3 years in Denver where he had nearly 1500 yards receiving.

Traded to St. Louis and adds 700 yards in 11 games.

Signs with New England and through 7 games, he has 35 receptions for 407 yards and 1 TD. Not much production in a pass happy offense.

In Washington, his first year here, he had 23 receptions for 365 yards and no TD's. His second year was pretty much non existent.

Even in San Fran, he never got over 800 yards in a year. He was not that productive and the Skins wasted picks on a WR that wasn't really going to give them much, and it showed. He didnt get a raw deal, he didnt accept his role and talked his way out of Washington. He did not have a work ethic and didnt want to put in the time or effort.

It was not because of the coaching staff, it was the expectation of him to spread the offense and be the deep threat making plays. When that didnt happen, he showed his attitude. He may have not been in trouble off field, but he created trouble on the field and in the locker room and as a team promoted sport, that just cant happen.

And we saw with Lavar Arrington that those kind of attitudes will not be tolerated by Gibbs and staff.

Lloyd was not needed here and the Skins made the mistake of trading for him.
all I know is, is that Lloyd was a better option than Randle El, Thomas, Kelly and Gaffney. I do think it was a mistake that we traded for him, but once he was here, I think Gibbs and company should have worked with him better to get him to be the productive wr he was while he was in Denver. It's pretty clear he has the talent in him to be a good to great wr, the problem was our coaching staff didn't know what buttons to push to get him there. It seemed to me that we really didn't try hard enough with him.

yeah and our defense was worse in 06 when we got rid of Lavar. coincidence, I think not. Lavar was the leader of our D from 2000-05 we didn't replace that leadership till we signed Fletch in 07.


I think that Lloyd should have worked with the system instead of Gibbs working with him.

Doesnt work that way with a mediocre WR coming in and wanting to make a name for himself.
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FosterTheSkins


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest one with me; Marty want fired, for to bring in Spurrier, after one year. Marty's Skins won eight out of their last eleven games, had the fourth overall defense, and had a thousand yard rusher. They were building something.

Not letting Stephen Davis go. And replacing him with Trung Candidate. Embarassed
Can you imagine if he was still here during the Gibbs 2.0 years? Davis was more the prototypical Gibbs RB.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear you Mike23md but IMO it goes both ways. For a relationship to work, both sides must work together like a team. It was clear they weren't willing to work with him. They didn't do their homework on him before trading for him, That's clear and that's on them. If you trade two draft picks for one player you better be sure you want that player on your team, you better work with him and give him every opportunity to succeed on your football team, not deactivate him nearly every week. In the mid 2000's was not the 1980s anymore and one times Joe Gibbs treated it like it was. I feel If the staff had shown more patience with Brandon and developed him better he would have been our current #1.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FosterTheSkins wrote:
The biggest one with me; Marty want fired, for to bring in Spurrier, after one year. Marty's Skins won eight out of their last eleven games, had the fourth overall defense, and had a thousand yard rusher. They were building something.

Not letting Stephen Davis go. And replacing him with Trung Candidate. Embarassed
Can you imagine if he was still here during the Gibbs 2.0 years? Davis was more the prototypical Gibbs RB.
yeah, we would have gotten two firsts for champ Bailey in 04 instead of CP and trading away a 2nd. We got hosed in that deal. Twisted Evil

That way we would have had two 1sts in 04, two 1st in 05 without trading up and kept our 2nd in 04 also.

If teams didn't want to give up the two firsts for Champ, we would have just franchised him in 04, kept him and our 2nd round draft pick. No favors for a player who was going through personal issues that were of his own making.

We'd have Stephen Davis, Betts and Cartwright as our running backs.

We'd have champ bailey, Fred Smoot, Walt Harris, Sean Taylor and Ryan Clark in our secondary.

In round 2 we could have taken an OL, DL or WR in that draft. Darnell Dockett, Randy Starks, Antwan Odom, jake Grove, Justin Smiley or Nick Hardwick
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mythodycle wrote:
Not so fast Turtle... not quite a MMQB situation with me. Just an anti-Cerrato approach.

I don't think it's quite that simple. While we are traveling down this path of the Chaos Theory, lets look at a couple alternate realities.

Aaron Rodgers may not be the QB he is today if he hadn't had the time to sit and develop behind Favre for those years. If GB picked Campbell first, we might be saying the same about him today.

The possibilities are endless, but in the end, I think RG3 is too rare of a talent for anyone to pass up. So if we were still anywhere in the vicinity, I think we could've still made a move. Especially after the years that Cam and Vick had prior to his draft.

Truthfully, I wouldn't be surprised to see some secondary problem fixed in FA. Let's not forget what happened when Shanahan had a young dominant RB and a glaring need in the secondary last time... Speaking of which, I wish we never traded the (then) best CB in the league.

Any chance that Rex will bite on Alfred Morris for Revis and a 2nd rounder??? LOL
mine is an anti Cerrato argument also. I disagree with almost everything the man did, but lets be honest, this while thread is still mmqb.

Aaron Rodgers is a hard worker, he was going to be a good to great qb wherever he went. He shoukd have went #1 in the 05 draft and i thought that since day 1, but pwople were affraid of him because of Tedford and the failures of Joey Harrington in the nfl.

More often than not the player makes coaches look better than they are, not vice versa. Case in point, what's belicheck without Tom Brady? A good defensive mind but overall an average football coach. What's Mike Shanahan without John Elway? Whats Coughlin w/o Eli Manning? An average to slightly above average football coach. You get that franchise qb and he'll make any coach into a champion.

I still wouldn't have traded up for Griffin, if we had Aaron Rodgers. To be honest, we wouldn't even be picking in the top 10 last year if we had Aaron Rodgers, he masks a few deficiencies that the packers have on their team.

As for trading Alfred Morris to the Jets for their second rounder:

1) Tanebaum is not that stupid.
2) Revis is coming off a torn acl, Champ Bailey was not
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