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Week 6: Seattle Seahawks vs New England Patriots
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Shazor4


Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 1050
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaveourSonics wrote:
Shazor4 wrote:
If Wilson was 6'4, people would be saying we have a great QB for the next ten years. A QB who is leading his team, making plays and performing clutch when it matters. He's performed great for a rookie but his height will always overshadow his achievements. 


Not always. If he can overcome some of his negative tendencies I won't be nearly as hard on him. For a guy that preaches about mirroring Brees' play, he really doesn't. Brees is a god at stepping up in the pocket and making the timely throw in spite of his height, whereas Wilson chooses to bail at the first sign of pressure and cut the field in half for the defense. That is, by far, my biggest gripe with him. The second he fixes this you'll see my praising him more than anyone in here (maybe not that much) and you'll see our offense really pick up the slack.


Like imani says, that's one problem. How can you compare a seasoned veteran to a rookie QB? Laughing I've never seen Brees' rookie season, for all we know he could have had the same problem with his height. Best way to fix the problem? Playing games. How's he going to fix it on the bench?

Also Osprey where are you? Wink
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 8771
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shazor4 wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
Shazor4 wrote:
If Wilson was 6'4, people would be saying we have a great QB for the next ten years. A QB who is leading his team, making plays and performing clutch when it matters. He's performed great for a rookie but his height will always overshadow his achievements. 


Not always. If he can overcome some of his negative tendencies I won't be nearly as hard on him. For a guy that preaches about mirroring Brees' play, he really doesn't. Brees is a god at stepping up in the pocket and making the timely throw in spite of his height, whereas Wilson chooses to bail at the first sign of pressure and cut the field in half for the defense. That is, by far, my biggest gripe with him. The second he fixes this you'll see my praising him more than anyone in here (maybe not that much) and you'll see our offense really pick up the slack.


Like imani says, that's one problem. How can you compare a seasoned veteran to a rookie QB? Laughing I've never seen Brees' rookie season, for all we know he could have had the same problem with his height. Best way to fix the problem? Playing games. How's he going to fix it on the bench?

Also Osprey where are you? Wink


Osprey, I think that's the guy I was talking about. Who basically was saying that Russell Wilson had no room for improvement whatsoever and that you guys were forever doomed to mediocrity




Drew Brees Rookie Year
15/27
221 yards
1 TD 0 INT

Drew Brees 1st Year as starter
320/526
3284 yards
17 TDs 16 INTs

Drew Brees 2nd year as starter
205/356
2108 yards
11 TDs 15 INTs

My goodness the Russell Wilson haters definitely wouldn't
stand for Russell Wilson having a start to a career like that
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outside_Insider


Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 1218
Location: Calgary, AB
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shazor4 wrote:
Don't know why people are expecting Wilson to be perfect as a rookie. If you compare his stats to every rookie who has started in the last 20 years he's in the top 5. He's the most wins as a rookie in their first 6 games. While the defense great helps him he's also thrown 2 GW TD passes. How about we compare him to a rookie in a comparable situation, a QB who relies on his defense and running game. 

Joe Flacco: 107/167 1076 YDs 2 TD 7 INT

If Wilson was 6'4, people would be saying we have a great QB for the next ten years. A QB who is leading his team, making plays and performing clutch when it matters. He's performed great for a rookie but his height will always overshadow his achievements. 


EXACTLY! How short sided are all of you RW haters? Can you not see that becoming a pro bowl NFL QB takes TIME and development.

If you were to tell me that RW would not progress from today throughout his career, I would tell you that I would want Flynn starting. However, for someone to take control of a team and progress like he has while still remaining competitive in all of our games...that says a lot.

In same ways, Andrew Luck has a much easier scenario. The Colts aren't competitive, and everyone in the city is willing to be patient to let the team grow together. Wilson doesn't have that luxury. Expectations are already sky high because of our D and running game.

How would you be happy with Luck's last game if he was on the Seahawks? 22/44 with 280 yards and 0 TD 2 INT..Those aren't stats that allow a team to win. You want Flynn NOW because you think he can help us make the playoffs.

Rookies take TIME, and Wilson is performing in the top 10 in NFL history in terms of rookie QBs for his record, yards, completions, ect..

http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawksblog/2019388607_the_proper_comp.html

This chart was from last week- doesn't even include this weeks' stats.

My biggest argument is against the people who neglect to acknowledge that in order to be great- there is a learning curve. Sure, it is possible we could be 5-1 or 6-0 with Flynn, but we could always be 2-4 as well. You don't know. One thing I do know, is that RUSSELL WILSON WILL CONTINUE TO IMPROVE. How do I know? because I've already seen it. Because that is the type of individual he is. He's a student of the game and he never stops working. To fail to realize this is short-sided. You want the best of both worlds. Be patient, and get behind him instead of bring up Flynn every chance you can get. It's almost as if you have zero trust for the leadership of this team, and it's pretty ignorant to think you know better than the professionals who have built this team from a piece of crap team.
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hawks4ever8


Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 867
Location: Spokane WA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't wait till Thursday to see how Wilson will play against an angery 9ers defense... i have a feeling he could have his first big game on the road.
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hawks4ever8


Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 867
Location: Spokane WA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't wait till Thursday to see how Wilson will play against an angery 9ers defense... i have a feeling he could have his first big game on the road.
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Sandman55


Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 148
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:


Drew Brees Rookie Year
15/27
221 yards
1 TD 0 INT

Drew Brees 1st Year as starter
320/526
3284 yards
17 TDs 16 INTs

Drew Brees 2nd year as starter
205/356
2108 yards
11 TDs 15 INTs

My goodness the Russell Wilson haters definitely wouldn't
stand for Russell Wilson having a start to a career like that


Thanks for the Brees stats. I was just about to post those, but you beat me to it. RW is playing better than Brees did his first year (Brees rating was 76.9), even after he sat on the bench for a full year. In Brees 2nd year his quarterback rating was 67.5.

WAY more perspective on this forum, and everywhere really, is needed about having a rookie QB.
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SaveourSonics


Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 45415
Location: Sleepless in Seattle
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't think there's a lack of perspective for how a rookie should play to be honest. I can acknowledge that he's playing just fine for a rookie. My gripe is that we have a veteran sitting on the bench that I believe could do better. This team is so good every where else that I don't feel patient enough to wait for Wilson to develop.
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Plush


Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 1387
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaveourSonics wrote:
I really don't think there's a lack of perspective for how a rookie should play to be honest. I can acknowledge that he's playing just fine for a rookie. My gripe is that we have a veteran sitting on the bench that I believe could do better. This team is so good every where else that I don't feel patient enough to wait for Wilson to develop.


Did you have us penciled in at 4-2 when Flynn was the starter?
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SaveourSonics


Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 45415
Location: Sleepless in Seattle
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plush wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
I really don't think there's a lack of perspective for how a rookie should play to be honest. I can acknowledge that he's playing just fine for a rookie. My gripe is that we have a veteran sitting on the bench that I believe could do better. This team is so good every where else that I don't feel patient enough to wait for Wilson to develop.


Did you have us penciled in at 4-2 when Flynn was the starter?


Probably not. Didn't have us penciled in to hold the Cowboys offense to 7, the Packers offense to 12, the Panthers offense to 3, and the Patriots offense to 23 either. Had I known that ahead of time, I'd probably have us at 5-1 or 6-0 with Flynn to be honest.
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DudeWhat??


Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 918
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaveourSonics wrote:
DudeWhat?? wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
outside_Insider wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
Um. He is improving and this was his best game. I said that in my long overview post last night (at least I think I did). But just because he's improving doesn't mean he's not continuing to hold us back.


He led nearly the entire league in passer rating this week (only a point behind a 6 TD performance of Rodgers). Give me a bleeping break.

I actually didn't think there were any of you left...

even Hugh Millien who has been probably the biggest critic of Wilson had glowing remarks after Sunday.


C'mon, let's not pretend like he was perfect or that the offense really even looked good. We had 10 points in the first 50 minutes! I can think of several plays off-hand that are directly on him. He continues to bail out of the pocket too early and he continues to struggle seeing the entire field. I don't know when Wilson became this player that we couldn't critique.


They are critiquing him..you just don't like the outcomes. He's good...does things flynn can't. does things flynn won't. He's a gamer and a leader. Throw a wonderful ball and understands the game..very heady. Improvement needed...but he is the reason why your winning..point blank.


Dude.....what? He is FAR from the reason we are winning. Since it sounds as if you're talking about the season as a whole, I'd say the reason we are winning is maybe because of the #1 defense we've boasted and the #1 statistical RB in the NFL right now (not sure if that still stands after week 6). The fact that we're 4-2 with 3 of those wins being 4th quarter comebacks knowing the rankings I just stated tells me that QB play and coaching are holding this team back. Sorry, but that's the truth. There's a reason we're the 32nd ranked passing offense, and it's not just coaching.

And to say I don't like the outcomes is ludicrous. I pimped out Russell Wilson as a top 3 overall prospect in 2012 if he was a few inches taller and said he had perhaps the best raw ability of any QB in the class. I said he was a great pick for us in the 3rd round and should be fun to watch develop. I have absolutely nothing against Wilson as an individual and I certainly do not WANT to see him fail. I am Seahawks fan. I want to see my Seahawks play the best brand of football that they possibly can. The only point I'm making is that I don't believe we are playing our best football right now due in large part because of who is under center. I still think Wilson needs time to grow, whereas Flynn understands the game already. He's proven in limited time that he can game. What exactly does he do that Flynn doesn't? His elusiveness? Because I'd say his elusiveness is perhaps his biggest weakness considering how much he relies on it.


I'm going to hate to having to admit this but...Your defenses in the recent past few years..maybe on and off ..have been the best ..yet most underrated defenses i have ever seen...perhaps ESPN doesn't like sea blue..i dont know...but for many years you've have good D...difference now? your D is playing with more heart because they believe in wilson..and they know wilson will do what needs to be done to win...Call it the tim tebow effect...teams play up due to the heart of a certain player..only in this case..your Tim Tebow is a much better passer and a better student of the game...and needs less playmakers around him to get it done.

I do understand you more though..i see now..you think flynn is good..i call him the second coming of Matt Cassel...thats where we disagree really..it has nothing to do with wilson.
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Tooki


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I share the mindset with SoS, that Flynn is more ready and he should have gotten the Day-1 start regardless. He is as ready now as he will ever be.

But he got injured and Wilson has the team behind him now. It's easier said than done to demote him, but when you are managing very young 54 man squad, are you game to ruin that team cohesion?
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 8771
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaveourSonics wrote:
Plush wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
I really don't think there's a lack of perspective for how a rookie should play to be honest. I can acknowledge that he's playing just fine for a rookie. My gripe is that we have a veteran sitting on the bench that I believe could do better. This team is so good every where else that I don't feel patient enough to wait for Wilson to develop.


Did you have us penciled in at 4-2 when Flynn was the starter?


Probably not. Didn't have us penciled in to hold the Cowboys offense to 7, the Packers offense to 12, the Panthers offense to 3, and the Patriots offense to 23 either. Had I known that ahead of time, I'd probably have us at 5-1 or 6-0 with Flynn to be honest.


Well the scary thing is that your team could be 5-1 or 6-0 with a rookie QB.

Remember how close your two losses were? Last play of the game for the Cardinals game and a potential game winning drive ended on a play where a receiver fell.

Of course as Bill Parcells says you are what your record is.

But as poorly as you may assess Russell Wilson's play, the fact is that if you assess his play for a rookie, he's far ahead of the curve of someone especially who wasn't supposed to be a legit starter in this league according to the experts


Now it may be an humbling test on the road for him this week vs an angry 49ers defense trying to get back on track.

But if anyone can handle the challenge if they let him it's Russell Wilson
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outside_Insider


Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 1218
Location: Calgary, AB
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
Plush wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
I really don't think there's a lack of perspective for how a rookie should play to be honest. I can acknowledge that he's playing just fine for a rookie. My gripe is that we have a veteran sitting on the bench that I believe could do better. This team is so good every where else that I don't feel patient enough to wait for Wilson to develop.


Did you have us penciled in at 4-2 when Flynn was the starter?


Probably not. Didn't have us penciled in to hold the Cowboys offense to 7, the Packers offense to 12, the Panthers offense to 3, and the Patriots offense to 23 either. Had I known that ahead of time, I'd probably have us at 5-1 or 6-0 with Flynn to be honest.


Well the scary thing is that your team could be 5-1 or 6-0 with a rookie QB.

Remember how close your two losses were? Last play of the game for the Cardinals game and a potential game winning drive ended on a play where a receiver fell.

Of course as Bill Parcells says you are what your record is.

But as poorly as you may assess Russell Wilson's play, the fact is that if you assess his play for a rookie, he's far ahead of the curve of someone especially who wasn't supposed to be a legit starter in this league according to the experts


Now it may be an humbling test on the road for him this week vs an angry 49ers defense trying to get back on track.

But if anyone can handle the challenge if they let him it's Russell Wilson


Good post
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hdshot


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RW is starting to show that excitement from the pre-season and showing he can win games with his arm. SF game will be a real test.
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