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Drew Brees is a top 10 QB all time
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lionslicer


Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 1810
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is NFL films top 19 quarterbacks of all time. Voting was done right after Brees won a super bowl, but people had an argument he wasn't good enough for a long enough time. Now with 2010, 2011 and part of 2012 in the books. and breaking 2 records people believed were unbeatable, it's safe to say he's cracked this list, but where? I say somewhere between Aikman and Elway.

(Granted this list was made about the 100 best players of all time, not best players at their position. Manning may not be a better quarterback than Brady, but people make the argument he's a more valuable player because he means more to any team he's on than Brady, Marino, Favre etc.)

Montana
Unitas
Manning
Sammy Baugh
Otto Graham
Favre
Brady
Elway
Marino
Sid Luckman
Staubach
Bradshaw
Bart Starr
Aikman
Steve Young
Norm Van Brocklin
Kurt Warner
Fran Tarkenton
Namath
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Blink


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AmerigoCorleone wrote:
Blink wrote:
I have to agree that he's being over rated on an all time scale.

He's one of the best ever, no doubt, but not in my top 5.

1. He's been known to turn the ball over at a higher rate than other elite QBs of his time.

2. Look at his pass attempts...my god. His bulk stats are impressive, but he's had hundreds more attempts than others. Literally hundreds.


Off topic here but:

3. Am I the only one who thinks how he performs this year without Payton will have a big impact on his legacy? Him and Payton have put up sick records together, Brees has looked different without him though.


1. Not true. His interception % is the same as Peyton Manning's.

2. This would only matter if his production didn't match his pass attempts. Since it does and it's a formula that has led to a Super Bowl then criticism of it is stupid. Consider that he only averages 1.2 more pass attempts a game than Peyton Manning.

3. His performance? He had a bad start but he has picked himself up these last 2 games. He's on pace for 5500+ yards and 44+ touchdowns. His completion % is low but it'll obviously improve as the season goes by.

He has led the league in completion % 3 times, yards 3 times, touchdowns 3 times and Quarterback rating once.

Show some respect.


Don't say anything about showing respect when you talk down to people, jackass.

1. Looking at his career splits, he's right around 15 INTs per year. Even without counting fumbles, that's a lot of turnovers.

2. When comparing stats, the stupid thing is to ignore the fact that he has what 3 of the top 5 most past attempts in a season all time. He had over 100 attempts more than Rodgers last year, but no that doesn't favor him at all. Brilliant.

3. You just said it yourself: he started off bad. He also has a 1-4 record. How exactly is that not struggling?


I'm not disrespecting Brees by saying I don't think he's a top 5 QB all time. Grow up.
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Wislakrak


Joined: 03 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

onepostlegend wrote:
Wislakrak wrote:
I think Brees could be a Top 10 QB, but the thing holding him back are those 5 years of average QB play until he went to NOLA. His years with the Saints have been Top 10 worthy, just his time in San Diego wasn't all that good.


Drew Brees played at a Pro Bowl level his last two years in San Diego. Check the stats. He put up a 27/7 104.8 passer rating in 2004...


And the year after he scored less touchdowns, and this was the only season he had as a Charger where he was able to get a passer rating above 90. I would also give him less room for error as he had the best running back of the last decade in LT, to have defenses focus on. He was good, but not top 10 worthy.
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AmerigoCorleone


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blink wrote:
AmerigoCorleone wrote:
Blink wrote:
I have to agree that he's being over rated on an all time scale.

He's one of the best ever, no doubt, but not in my top 5.

1. He's been known to turn the ball over at a higher rate than other elite QBs of his time.

2. Look at his pass attempts...my god. His bulk stats are impressive, but he's had hundreds more attempts than others. Literally hundreds.


Off topic here but:

3. Am I the only one who thinks how he performs this year without Payton will have a big impact on his legacy? Him and Payton have put up sick records together, Brees has looked different without him though.


1. Not true. His interception % is the same as Peyton Manning's.

2. This would only matter if his production didn't match his pass attempts. Since it does and it's a formula that has led to a Super Bowl then criticism of it is stupid. Consider that he only averages 1.2 more pass attempts a game than Peyton Manning.

3. His performance? He had a bad start but he has picked himself up these last 2 games. He's on pace for 5500+ yards and 44+ touchdowns. His completion % is low but it'll obviously improve as the season goes by.

He has led the league in completion % 3 times, yards 3 times, touchdowns 3 times and Quarterback rating once.

Show some respect.


Don't say anything about showing respect when you talk down to people, jackass.

1. Looking at his career splits, he's right around 15 INTs per year. Even without counting fumbles, that's a lot of turnovers.

2. When comparing stats, the stupid thing is to ignore the fact that he has what 3 of the top 5 most past attempts in a season all time. He had over 100 attempts more than Rodgers last year, but no that doesn't favor him at all. Brilliant.

3. You just said it yourself: he started off bad. He also has a 1-4 record. How exactly is that not struggling?


I'm not disrespecting Brees by saying I don't think he's a top 5 QB all time. Grow up.


1. Drew Brees averages 15.3 interceptions per 16 game regular season. Peyton Manning averages 15.1 interceptions per game regular season. Both have an interception % of 2.7

2. His production meets his pass attempts so arguing this point is stupid. If the formula is successful then why change it?

3. He had a bad start. So what? Do you even watch him play? He has picked himself up these past 2 games and is on track to having another very good season. His team is 1-4 but a lot of that has to do with how bad the New Orleans Saints are overall.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think its hilarious when people use his bulk pass attempts to make his yardage and TDs look bad in comparison, but then don't bring it up when talking about his INTs.
More passes = More TDs and more yardage
More passes also = More INTs
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x0x


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reckless123 wrote:
green24 wrote:
x0x wrote:
I believe the first time I compared Brees to Marino was 4 years ago.

He could be the GOAT yet.


LOL at OP putting Peyton at #2.

What's so funny about that? Peyton is certainly worthy of consideration as a top 2 QB of all time.


forget #2, how about #1.



Considering all-time?

Peyton cannot surpass Unitas or Graham.

Considering Super Bowl era? He cannot surpass Montana and in my mind, is forever behind Marino as well.


Then I'd say he's behind Brady at the moment and will probably retire before Brady so probably not going to overtake him.
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AmerigoCorleone


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

x0x wrote:
is forever behind Marino as well.


Why?
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jgold72288


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

x0x wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
green24 wrote:
x0x wrote:
I believe the first time I compared Brees to Marino was 4 years ago.

He could be the GOAT yet.


LOL at OP putting Peyton at #2.

What's so funny about that? Peyton is certainly worthy of consideration as a top 2 QB of all time.


forget #2, how about #1.



Considering all-time?

Peyton cannot surpass Unitas or Graham.

Considering Super Bowl era? He cannot surpass Montana and in my mind, is forever behind Marino as well.


Then I'd say he's behind Brady at the moment and will probably retire before Brady so probably not going to overtake him.
What if he leads the Broncos to a title? Football Outsiders seems to think that Manning had him beat before this season began.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2011/walkthrough-colt-dilemma

Quote:
One thing that often happens in these arguments is that we adjust the contemporary player down because careers are longer and stats are more prolific, but we never adjust the old timer down for the fact that media coverage has changed. In Unitas’ heyday, sportswriters were almost uniformly fawning and invested in mythmaking. The football media was also rather primitive, compared to the modern football mass media and to baseball media of the time, so players weren’t scrutinized heavily or scouted minutely. We don’t have detailed scouting reports documenting every minor Unitas mistake, long columns explaining how Unitas lacks the courage or gumption to defeat Bart Starr, or bloggers making fun of Unitas’ post-interception facial expressions. We had a hero-champion-warrior king. You cannot compare that bronze bust to the guy who will take the field in September (I type this with ever-increasing confidence) and possibly lose or throw two interceptions. You have to make harsh judgments when comparing old legends to new. You have to notice the fact that from 1961-63 Unitas was the third-to-fifth best quarterback in a 14-team league. You have to remember that Colts did just fine without him the year they reached Super Bowl III, a sign that his “leadership” was not all that important to a team that did darn well with his backup at the helm.

There are other things to adjust for. Unitas won three titles. Winning an NFL championship in 1958 and 1959 meant winning one championship game, no playoffs. The other title came in 1971, when the NFL Colts got to share a division with four newly-arrived AFL teams, three of them terrible. The Jets, Bills, and Patriots combined to win seven games the year the Colts won Super Bowl V. This sounds like I am picking away at Unitas, and I don’t mean to do that to one of the best quarterbacks ever. I am just explaining that “adjustment” is a two-way street. Unitas’ 1950s Colts won 12-team leagues. It was an accomplishment, and a sign of excellence, but not a cudgel that can be used to beat another player over the head for winning a 32-team league “only” once.

There’s a reflexive need to argue against Manning’s greatness, and I noticed it when looking through the message boards in the last few weeks when some of you were anticipating this Colts list. For Manning, we have amazing stats, wins, and longevity. Leadership that in any other era would be universally lauded. Uniqueness and durability at a position where a missed game is potentially a disaster. We toss them all away and point to a handful of playoff losses. The problem isn’t bad here at Football Outsiders, where you guys really delve into the evidence and come away with measured conclusions. In other places, it is pathologically nutty, and some of them aren't even Patriots fansites.

There are many reasons to pick Unitas over Peyton, and I would not go to war with someone who wants to make that choice. But I think some people want to kick Peyton out of the Top 10 of all time, or even the Top 20. To them, I say this: anyone who does not consider Peyton Manning one of the ten best quarterbacks of all time either hasn’t studied the issue at all or is arguing from some kind of goofy agenda. I don’t see any reason to keep him out of the Top Five.

While doing this project, I have spent hours and hours staring at quarterback records: the stat lines, their playoff records, John Maxymuk’s Quarterback Abstract, old encyclopedias, game logs. I had to study Steve Young and Joe Montana, all the Cowboys greats, the 1950s legends and AFL guys. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in any of the records like Manning’s body of work over the last decade. There is no run of 12-4 seasons and statistical dominance that lasts anywhere near as long, period. Terry Bradshaw and Tom Brady cannot touch it. John Elway does not come close. Neither does Dan Marino, who had a lot of great statistical years for 8-8 teams. Joe Montana has something more checkered, although it is brilliant enough that it is arguably greater. Unitas has 1957-60 and several punctuation marks, so he has a case. Brett Favre has his four-year run and lots of (very good) stuffing. Otto Graham has something that looks better if you can stomach AAFC statistics. But really, Manning’s statistical record is completely on its own, and to write it all off is to write this whole decade off.

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lionslicer


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AmerigoCorleone wrote:
x0x wrote:
is forever behind Marino as well.


Why?


He refuses accept Manning has the ability to surpass Marino. He won't even put Manning in his top 5 quarterbacks of all time.
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Uncle Buck


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tarkenton?
Fouts?
Moon?
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mozwanted


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Brady is the GOAT. 5 Super Bowls, 3 wins, 2 others blown by the defense. Elite stats, incredible clutch play. Greatest pocket passer of all time. Married to Gisele Bunchen. He is the GOAT.


what? 14 points and 17 points scored in the superbowl and blaming the defense?

you gotta be kidding me. Brady laid a big egg on the first superbowl where his team went undefeated. He was out played by manning. Manning wears the big boy pants now cause his 2 game winning td passes in the superbowls make bradys dinks and dunks for fg drives look small very small.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mozwanted wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Brady is the GOAT. 5 Super Bowls, 3 wins, 2 others blown by the defense. Elite stats, incredible clutch play. Greatest pocket passer of all time. Married to Gisele Bunchen. He is the GOAT.


what? 14 points and 17 points scored in the superbowl and blaming the defense?

you gotta be kidding me. Brady laid a big egg on the first superbowl where his team went undefeated. He was out played by manning. Manning wears the big boy pants now cause his 2 game winning td passes in the superbowls make bradys dinks and dunks for fg drives look small very small.


Ummm....what?

Super Bowl 2007 Season:

Eli: 19/34 (55.8%), 255 yds, 2 TD, 1 INT

Brady: 29/48 (60.4%), 266 yds, 1 TD

How did he outplay him?

Not really sure why you said game winning TD PASSES, plural...either.

He threw a game winning pass in the 2007 Superbowl, and it was for 13 yards, so calm down with your "big boy pants" quotes.

Not sure if you were just trolling or what...but I find it funny that you used dumb logic (putting the blame solely on Brady for his O line being absolutely pathetic that game and letting him get sacked and knocked and rushed constantly) AND statements that are just wrong (Eli throwing two game winning TD passes in the Superbowl.)
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