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saintsfan


Joined: 16 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
saintsfan wrote:
That long TD was actually Harper's fault. Watch the play, Jenkins was man on the RB/TE, that's why he dropped down. White was man on man on Meachem and got burnt. Harper was dropping into a one-deep zone but was too focused on the left side and didn't see Meachem flying down the field. Watch the replay, you will see Harper covering the other WR over the top, dropping down the field, but he didn't drop far enough to be in position to make a play on Meachem. After the play, you saw Spags grab Harper and talk to him, Harper knew he messed up. Just cus Collinsworth said it was Jenkins fault, doesn't mean anything, he literally is the worst announcer.

What are you talking about? Unless I'm blind as a bat Roman Harper blitzed on that play man
Ahh just watched it again...it was 42 out there not 41. Quddus should have been deep, not Harper
Watch here http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap1000000078110/Meachem-44-yard-TD-catch
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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Spot on. Roman Harper has been one of our best players this season, blaming him is laughable. Malcolm Jenkins, quite frankly, sucks. People need to get past the whole "he has potential" thing because he doesn't. Whether it was because he learned bad tendencies or not, he has been miserable for the past 2 seasons. I'd say FS is our second biggest need behind getting a pass rusher.


I agree FS is our second biggest need but if people actually believe Roman Harper dosen't need to go as well their crazy. Sure he makes a play or 2 when blitzing but he makes just as many blown tackles and coverages as Jenkins does. The only difference is that Jenkins has the speed to actually try and catch back up and therefor he's mistakes are see up close, Harper on the other hand gets beat so badly that he's not even in the picture but the Harper homers are always sure to mask this and point the finger at another DB simply because he makes a play on a blitz now and then.

What? I'm sorry but Roman Harper doesn't have NEARLY as many blown tackles as Jenkins. Jenkins never wraps up and takes some of the worst angles I've ever seen, he's the worst tackler on this team, Roman Harper is probably the 2nd best behind Curtis Lofton. Also, Roman Harper rarely gets "beat" in coverage, does he have the speed to cover Desean Jackson 1 on 1? Heck no, but he's an incredibly smart player and uses that to negate his lack of athleticism.
Roman Harper has been far and away the best player in our secondary, and arguably our defense this season. Its pretty clear you have an agenda here, Roman Harper completely shut down Antonio Gates which you refuse to believe even though others have said the same thing and you keep making baseless claims that Harper has blown tons of tackles and coverages, which simply isn't true. This season he hasn't even made any plays while blitzing! All of his big plays have been in coverage! He had a HUGE INT last night and a HUGE PD on a throw that would've been a huge gain to Antonio Gates. He also had an incredible PD against Washington in the end zone that got a bogus defensive PI. Its pretty clear that you're just trying to make excuses for Malcolm Jenkins, he has no one to blame but himself. He's a miserable safety, watch the tape man.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saintsfan wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
saintsfan wrote:
That long TD was actually Harper's fault. Watch the play, Jenkins was man on the RB/TE, that's why he dropped down. White was man on man on Meachem and got burnt. Harper was dropping into a one-deep zone but was too focused on the left side and didn't see Meachem flying down the field. Watch the replay, you will see Harper covering the other WR over the top, dropping down the field, but he didn't drop far enough to be in position to make a play on Meachem. After the play, you saw Spags grab Harper and talk to him, Harper knew he messed up. Just cus Collinsworth said it was Jenkins fault, doesn't mean anything, he literally is the worst announcer.

What are you talking about? Unless I'm blind as a bat Roman Harper blitzed on that play man
Ahh just watched it again...it was 42 out there not 41. Quddus should have been deep, not Harper
Watch here http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap1000000078110/Meachem-44-yard-TD-catch

What I got from that play, and I've watched it on coaches film is that Corey White was manned up on Robert Meachem and Malcolm Jenkins had the deep zone, Corey White definitely got toasted but Malcolm Jenkins didn't drop deep like he was supposed to. Thats what I saw, but the coaching staff are the only ones who know who was supposed to be where.
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Lombardi Gras


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roman Harper isn't the problem. We all know he has trouble in coverage, but he is an elite in the box safety, and a good-very good tackler in the open field. He has above average football smarts/instincts as well.

Jenkins just doesn't get the mental side of it. I don't care if Spags wants 1,2,3, or 4 safeties in the backfield (though I don't really think he ever wants more than 2 on the field at the same time...save maybe a quarter zone), if none of the safeties understand where to be, then it doesn't matter what their 'skill sets' are.

"90% of the game is half mental." - John Madden
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What? I'm sorry but Roman Harper doesn't have NEARLY as many blown tackles as Jenkins. Jenkins never wraps up and takes some of the worst angles I've ever seen, he's the worst tackler on this team, Roman Harper is probably the 2nd best behind Curtis Lofton. Also, Roman Harper rarely gets "beat" in coverage, does he have the speed to cover Desean Jackson 1 on 1? Heck no, but he's an incredibly smart player and uses that to negate his lack of athleticism.
Roman Harper has been far and away the best player in our secondary, and arguably our defense this season. Its pretty clear you have an agenda here, Roman Harper completely shut down Antonio Gates which you refuse to believe even though others have said the same thing and you keep making baseless claims that Harper has blown tons of tackles and coverages, which simply isn't true. This season he hasn't even made any plays while blitzing! All of his big plays have been in coverage! He had a HUGE INT last night and a HUGE PD on a throw that would've been a huge gain to Antonio Gates. He also had an incredible PD against Washington in the end zone that got a bogus defensive PI. Its pretty clear that you're just trying to make excuses for Malcolm Jenkins, he has no one to blame but himself. He's a miserable safety, watch the tape man.


Check it out... HARPER41

I understand that alot of people on this site will get so caught up in a player or two simply because of what he has done in the past.

I am NOT a Harper basher, I actually like the guy as a player but you keep coming up with this "Best player in our secondary" but 905 of Harper's so called big plays have occured at the nickel linebacker position.

I will say this once again... Harper is GREAT at what he does best but all I'm saying is that what he does best is not playeing SS.

YES Harper is a major liability in coverage, that isn't even up for argument.

YES Harper's shortcomings in coverage put more pressure on other defensive backs to cover more field than they should have to.

YES Jenkins has been a disapointment as a starting FS.

NO it isn't ALL Harpers fault.

Bottom line is this is the truth... We have two safetys in a zone/press, man scheme.

1. A SS that can't cover at all on the back end unless he is played close to the line as a extra linebacker.

2. A FS with Zero ball skills and possiably one of the worst tacklers in the game.

We also have a ROOKIE 5th round pick from SAMFORD starting at corner. Not to mention maybe the worst up front pass rush in the NFL. All this is a recipe for disaster!

Look, I don't hate Harper just like I don't hate Jenkins. Honestly they both have their pros and their cons and the truth is if this defense could generate ANY type of consitant pass rush, some of those shortcomings would be masked and both players would likley be seen in a different light right now.

All I'm saying is that while the criticism Jenkins has been getting is rightfully justified... Letting Harper get a free pass on his shortcomings is pretty hypercritical in my opinion.

If were gonna call out one... call'em all!

Stop the tunnel vision, take off the fan goggles for a second.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have fan goggles with Harper, yes he was my favorite player when I made this username, that doesn't change the facts.

First of all, ALL of Harpers big plays have come at safety, this is just reassuring me that you have no idea what you're talking about. The INT? He was at SS. The huge PD? He was at SS. His TFL against the Chiefs? He was at SS. His TFL against the Chargers? He was at SS. Exactly what "big plays" has he had at LB? Still want to deny that you're not making baseless claims?

Second of all, Harpers short comings DON'T effect Malcolm Jenkins. When Roman Harper blitzes someone else takes his place in coverage we don't just say "Malcolm, cover the ENTIRE field, left and right. Better do a great job!" You're reaching so hard with that argument. The Robert Meachem TD is a perfect example, Malcolm Jenkins is clearly supposed to give help over the top and where is he? About 10-15 yards in front of Meachem. Good job Jenkins.

Third of all, Roman Harper isn't getting a pass. We all know he struggles in coverage, and we've all admitted it BUT Roman Harper has played well this year! In run support and in coverage! Why would I call out a guy whos playing well? I haven't seen Roman Harper make any huge lapses in coverage yet, I can't say the same for Malcolm Jenkins. He has a weekly bonehead move.
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
I don't have fan goggles with Harper, yes he was my favorite player when I made this username, that doesn't change the facts.

First of all, ALL of Harpers big plays have come at safety, this is just reassuring me that you have no idea what you're talking about. The INT? He was at SS. The huge PD? He was at SS. His TFL against the Chiefs? He was at SS. His TFL against the Chargers? He was at SS. Exactly what "big plays" has he had at LB? Still want to deny that you're not making baseless claims?

Second of all, Harpers short comings DON'T effect Malcolm Jenkins. When Roman Harper blitzes someone else takes his place in coverage we don't just say "Malcolm, cover the ENTIRE field, left and right. Better do a great job!" You're reaching so hard with that argument. The Robert Meachem TD is a perfect example, Malcolm Jenkins is clearly supposed to give help over the top and where is he? About 10-15 yards in front of Meachem. Good job Jenkins.

Third of all, Roman Harper isn't getting a pass. We all know he struggles in coverage, and we've all admitted it BUT Roman Harper has played well this year! In run support and in coverage! Why would I call out a guy whos playing well? I haven't seen Roman Harper make any huge lapses in coverage yet, I can't say the same for Malcolm Jenkins. He has a weekly bonehead move.


Were are obviously watching two different Saints games... Let me know what channel the one's your watching are shown on so I can get a better acceptence for your obvious love for Roman Harper...

Alot of guys clown Raves on here for his infatuation with Ohio State players but your obvious man crush on Harper takes the cake for me.

Baseless claims... Please!

This argument is obviously going nowhere. I know what I see and I do it without devotion to one player but to the betterment of a football team. I can no longer discuss this topic with you because of your obvious bias opinion.

On to the next subject...
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I don't have fan goggles with Harper, yes he was my favorite player when I made this username, that doesn't change the facts.

First of all, ALL of Harpers big plays have come at safety, this is just reassuring me that you have no idea what you're talking about. The INT? He was at SS. The huge PD? He was at SS. His TFL against the Chiefs? He was at SS. His TFL against the Chargers? He was at SS. Exactly what "big plays" has he had at LB? Still want to deny that you're not making baseless claims?

Second of all, Harpers short comings DON'T effect Malcolm Jenkins. When Roman Harper blitzes someone else takes his place in coverage we don't just say "Malcolm, cover the ENTIRE field, left and right. Better do a great job!" You're reaching so hard with that argument. The Robert Meachem TD is a perfect example, Malcolm Jenkins is clearly supposed to give help over the top and where is he? About 10-15 yards in front of Meachem. Good job Jenkins.

Third of all, Roman Harper isn't getting a pass. We all know he struggles in coverage, and we've all admitted it BUT Roman Harper has played well this year! In run support and in coverage! Why would I call out a guy whos playing well? I haven't seen Roman Harper make any huge lapses in coverage yet, I can't say the same for Malcolm Jenkins. He has a weekly bonehead move.


Were are obviously watching two different Saints games... Let me know what channel the one's your watching are shown on so I can get a better acceptence for your obvious love for Roman Harper...

Alot of guys clown Raves on here for his infatuation with Ohio State players but your obvious man crush on Harper takes the cake for me.

Baseless claims... Please!

This argument is obviously going nowhere. I know what I see and I do it without devotion to one player but to the betterment of a football team. I can no longer discuss this topic with you because of your obvious bias opinion.

On to the next subject...

I just provided you with specific examples of Roman Harper making plays at the SS position, the same plays you claimed he was only making at LB. I'm sorry but all you've done is spout non-sense. Could you post something to back up your claims? Something? Anything?
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Could you post something to back up your claims? Something? Anything?


1st, your claims are absoulte false. Your basing your conclusions off of what you ASSUME to be facts.

You (nor I) are in that defensive huddle, neither of us know the defensive play or what each players individual responsibilities are on a given play but your talking like you were the one calling the plays.

Both of our observations are based off of opinion and assumptions so for you to act like you have concrete evidence based on merely watching the game is nonsense in it's self!

Looks can be very deceiving and unless either of us or on this defensive coaching staff then NOTHING of what either of us THINK holds any water whats-so-ever!

Look, I appreciate your respect and admiration for Roman Harpers game but let's be honest here... Even if any of us had actual proof (AND NEITHER OF US DON'T) that Harper was the weakest link on this defense like I claim, it truly wouldn't matter to you.

Would it... HARPER41
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saintsfan


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
saintsfan wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
saintsfan wrote:
That long TD was actually Harper's fault. Watch the play, Jenkins was man on the RB/TE, that's why he dropped down. White was man on man on Meachem and got burnt. Harper was dropping into a one-deep zone but was too focused on the left side and didn't see Meachem flying down the field. Watch the replay, you will see Harper covering the other WR over the top, dropping down the field, but he didn't drop far enough to be in position to make a play on Meachem. After the play, you saw Spags grab Harper and talk to him, Harper knew he messed up. Just cus Collinsworth said it was Jenkins fault, doesn't mean anything, he literally is the worst announcer.

What are you talking about? Unless I'm blind as a bat Roman Harper blitzed on that play man
Ahh just watched it again...it was 42 out there not 41. Quddus should have been deep, not Harper
Watch here http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap1000000078110/Meachem-44-yard-TD-catch

What I got from that play, and I've watched it on coaches film is that Corey White was manned up on Robert Meachem and Malcolm Jenkins had the deep zone, Corey White definitely got toasted but Malcolm Jenkins didn't drop deep like he was supposed to. Thats what I saw, but the coaching staff are the only ones who know who was supposed to be where.
The coaches said one of the safties, either Quddus or Jenkins was supposed to drop. Watch the play and tell me Quddus isn't dropping into a deep zone. He just didn't watch the whole field, he only watched the side he started on. Not that I'm trying to say Jenkins is actually a great FS, just on that specific play its on Quddus.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Quote:
Could you post something to back up your claims? Something? Anything?


1st, your claims are absoulte false. Your basing your conclusions off of what you ASSUME to be facts.

You (nor I) are in that defensive huddle, neither of us know the defensive play or what each players individual responsibilities are on a given play but your talking like you were the one calling the plays.

Both of our observations are based off of opinion and assumptions so for you to act like you have concrete evidence based on merely watching the game is nonsense in it's self!

Looks can be very deceiving and unless either of us or on this defensive coaching staff then NOTHING of what either of us THINK holds any water whats-so-ever!

Look, I appreciate your respect and admiration for Roman Harpers game but let's be honest here... Even if any of us had actual proof (AND NEITHER OF US DON'T) that Harper was the weakest link on this defense like I claim, it truly wouldn't matter to you.

Would it... HARPER41

What are you talking about? You said Roman Harper misses tackles as much as Malcolm Jenkins, that's just blatantly false. You also said Roman Harper has only made his plays at OLB, which I PROVED was wrong. Every big play he's had has been at SS. Those are facts. Facts that can be proven by simply watching the games. You've offered me nothing except opinionated baseless statements like "Roman Harper misses as many tackles as Malcolm Jenkins" "Roman Harper has only made plays at OLB" and my personal favorite "Malcolm Jenkins only makes mistakes in coverages because he has to make up for Roman Harpers epic sucktitude!"
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You proved Absoulty NOTHING!

Except for the fact that you seem to generally feel that simply wathcing football gives you keen insight to our defensive calls.

Have you ever played this game?

Do you honestly believe what you feel is absoulte fact? You know this for sure? You can tell me WITHOUT A DOUBT the exact responsibilities of each of our defensive players on every play?

PS: The fact that you actually argue that Roman Harper has not missed tackles is laughable. Has he missed as many as Jenkins, not sure but getting blown past by a running back is still a missed tackle. Just because Harper dosent have the speed to sometimes even put himself in a position to try and tackle the ball carrier dosen't mean he diden't miss the tackle none-the-less.

Let's just agree to disagree here
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude. What are you talking about? You said Harper hadn't made any plays except at LB and I 100% proved that wrong. I'd also love to see these plays where Harper is missing tackles, please show me all these missed tackles. You're fighting a losing battle, all you've done is make baseless claims about how terrible Harper is in coverage even though I can't seem to recall a single time this season that he was badly beaten.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Dude. What are you talking about? You said Harper hadn't made any plays except at LB and I 100% proved that wrong. I'd also love to see these plays where Harper is missing tackles, please show me all these missed tackles. You're fighting a losing battle, all you've done is make baseless claims about how terrible Harper is in coverage even though I can't seem to recall a single time this season that he was badly beaten.


1. I said most of his big plays come while in as a nickel LB.

2. How long has Harper been on this team... do I really have to go back and count all the missed tackles? Why are you so caught up in this season?

3. A losing battle... fighting? Laughing Dude, what are you talking about? Are you really taking this that serious that you feel we are battling here? What's the prize Shocked

4. Baseless claims about how terrible Harper is in coverage? Honestly? Are you serious? You actually think ANY claim calling Harper terrible in coverage is baseless?

You sir are DEVOTED Applause

I in all honesty concide... you win the battle Wink

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Harper41


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Dude. What are you talking about? You said Harper hadn't made any plays except at LB and I 100% proved that wrong. I'd also love to see these plays where Harper is missing tackles, please show me all these missed tackles. You're fighting a losing battle, all you've done is make baseless claims about how terrible Harper is in coverage even though I can't seem to recall a single time this season that he was badly beaten.


1. I said most of his big plays come while in as a nickel LB.

2. How long has Harper been on this team... do I really have to go back and count all the missed tackles? Why are you so caught up in this season?

3. A losing battle... fighting? Laughing Dude, what are you talking about? Are you really taking this that serious that you feel we are battling here? What's the prize Shocked

4. Baseless claims about how terrible Harper is in coverage? Honestly? Are you serious? You actually think ANY claim calling Harper terrible in coverage is baseless?

You sir are DEVOTED Applause

I in all honesty concide... you win the battle Wink

Dancing
Amazing!

1. Exactly, and you were wrong. Every big play he's had this year (His first year playing LB) has been at SS. How many times do I need to say it?
2. Because this entire thread and argument has been about... this season?
3. You win the internetz.
4. Yes. This season, Roman Harper has been much better than Malcolm Jenkins in coverage, as embarrassing as that is. You keep saying its Harpers fault Jenkins has been bad in coverage yet I'd much rather see Harper back there this season. He's made plays and been in position to make plays all I see Jenkins doing is chasing down a WR and then hitting him late after he's scored or gone out of bounds.
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