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Lawrence Timmons All-22
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:23 am    Post subject: Lawrence Timmons All-22 Reply with quote

Just went through the tape again to grade him. Preliminary, he definitely blitzed more, but was also uncovered/unblocked quite a bit

20 blitzes at least, either on passing or run downs, at least 4 were unblocked. However, he absolutely plowed into McCoy (I think, didn't catch his number) on one blitz and did a good job getting past McCoy on a few others. He was a lot more decisive and physical when he blitzed, which was nice to see. Still had issues with bad angles and missed tackles.

My preliminary score for him thus far:

13 positive plays including 7 QB pressures/hits, a forced fumble, and 3 tackles for loss
8 negative plays, including 5 missed/overpursued tackles
overall score of +7.0

will post play-by-play once i can go through the all-22
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Lawrence Timmons All-22 Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
Just went through the tape again to grade him. Preliminary, he definitely blitzed more, but was also uncovered/unblocked quite a bit

20 blitzes at least, either on passing or run downs, at least 4 were unblocked. However, he absolutely plowed into McCoy (I think, didn't catch his number) on one blitz and did a good job getting past McCoy on a few others. He was a lot more decisive and physical when he blitzed, which was nice to see. Still had issues with bad angles and missed tackles.

My preliminary score for him thus far:

13 positive plays including 7 QB pressures/hits, a forced fumble, and 3 tackles for loss
8 negative plays, including 5 missed/overpursued tackles
overall score of +7.0

will post play-by-play once i can go through the all-22


Keth,

might be asking too much, but how many of the plays would you say were the fault of the eagles not picking it up?

Timmons had a good game, but the FF was Vick's fault and it looked like the eagle didn't pick him up enough and after a while you think they would learn? Then if we have a look on their page from this site, you think their fans have the OL we had Laughing Doesn't sound like they are happy with the OL, kinda like some of us Embarassed were/was/ or maybe is Crying or Very sad

Lets hope Timmons is going to get back to his speed and effectiveness. He was quite a player in 2010
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at23steelers


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@keth: I'd rather him over pursue than be invisible on the field. Btw, someone mentioned something interesting that Timmons is more effective when Polamalu is in the lineup. Did he have a higher grade before Poli got injured?
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

at23steelers wrote:
@keth: I'd rather him over pursue than be invisible on the field. Btw, someone mentioned something interesting that Timmons is more effective when Polamalu is in the lineup. Did he have a higher grade before Poli got injured?


Yep. SteelProven said that. That's an interesting idea. Maybe it's Lebeau? With his favorite toy out on the field (Troy) that opens up room for Timmons to focus on pass rushing? Perhaps a trickle down effect?
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3rivers


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillersenat wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
@keth: I'd rather him over pursue than be invisible on the field. Btw, someone mentioned something interesting that Timmons is more effective when Polamalu is in the lineup. Did he have a higher grade before Poli got injured?


Yep. SteelProven said that. That's an interesting idea. Maybe it's Lebeau? With his favorite toy out on the field (Troy) that opens up room for Timmons to focus on pass rushing? Perhaps a trickle down effect?


and when Harrison is playing at a high level, extra protection is brought in some way shape or form, and Timmons is even more free to scrape.

Maybe timmons success was more related to those around him than we thought?
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rivers wrote:
stillersenat wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
@keth: I'd rather him over pursue than be invisible on the field. Btw, someone mentioned something interesting that Timmons is more effective when Polamalu is in the lineup. Did he have a higher grade before Poli got injured?


Yep. SteelProven said that. That's an interesting idea. Maybe it's Lebeau? With his favorite toy out on the field (Troy) that opens up room for Timmons to focus on pass rushing? Perhaps a trickle down effect?


and when Harrison is playing at a high level, extra protection is brought in some way shape or form, and Timmons is even more free to scrape.

Maybe timmons success was more related to those around him than we thought?


Timmons is the one player on defense that his play is based off of the success of others. When players such as Harrison or Troy are out it allows teams to focus on Timmons and make him a non factor. Timmons best skill is attacking the LOS when he's ask to retreat he doesn't perform the same. Look at his early seasons as a backup/starter Timmons had 12 sacks in 2 yrs. I believe he's becoming more well rounded but I still believe the leash has to be removed.
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at23steelers


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you think Timmons tries to do too much when other starters around him are injured?
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe when others are out Timmons tries to hard to fit in and not make mistakes. I don't think he does to much but I also believe he still learning and some may disagree but last season I think helped him more then we all believe. This season barring injury will be his best and it may not come in stats form either.
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treat88


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at23steelers wrote:
Do you think Timmons tries to do too much when other starters around him are injured?


No. I think he sucks when he tries to read/react.

I think he excels when they let him freelance and just attack the ball...which they seem to be far more comfortable doing when Troy and Harrison are playing.

I think they don't trust Mundy and the Worilds/Carter combo and ask Timmons to play less aggressively to help cover their shortcomings...which he isn't very good at.
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steelcurtain29


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timmons tackling has gotten to be awful... It's downgraded since 2010. What's with him?
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armsteeld


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timmons tackling doesnt suck. Troy misses 3x as many tackles.
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LTF


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timmons' problems begin when his thinks too much.

He's not a great anticipator and he's not a guy with great instincts. He's an athletic missile that just needs to trust what he sees and go with it. He'll make mistakes here and there, that's alright. But he'll make a lot of positive, high impact plays doing that as well.
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much of what Treat and LTF said.
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armsteeld


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LTF wrote:
Timmons' problems begin when his thinks too much.

He's not a great anticipator and he's not a guy with great instincts. He's an athletic missile that just needs to trust what he sees and go with it. He'll make mistakes here and there, that's alright. But he'll make a lot of positive, high impact plays doing that as well.


Correct me if I'm wrong but if you see something and you react to it, isn't that considered Instincts? Film study and instincts are similar so it is hard to comprehend what an individual player sees.
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treat88


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
LTF wrote:
Timmons' problems begin when his thinks too much.

He's not a great anticipator and he's not a guy with great instincts. He's an athletic missile that just needs to trust what he sees and go with it. He'll make mistakes here and there, that's alright. But he'll make a lot of positive, high impact plays doing that as well.


Correct me if I'm wrong but if you see something and you react to it, isn't that considered Instincts? Film study and instincts are similar so it is hard to comprehend what an individual player sees.


See/React Correctly = Instincts
See/Process/React Inconsistently = Timmons

From the outside looking in, Timmons appears to be a guy that hesitates when given multiple responsibilities to think about. Run/pass, Blitz/drop, Flat/hash, Short/deep etc. You can almost see those gears grinding as he thinks about and decides what his job is on any given play. To me, a guy with great instincts isn't thinking about those responsibilities, he's just flowing to the right spot without wasting the processing time....he's not consciously thinking, he's just moving.

Rather than overburdening him with multiple responsibilities, Timmons seems to be a guy that needs to just be told, "Hulk. Smash!" and turn him loose.

I'm not impugning Timmons intelligence either here. I think he's just deliberate in going through his decision tree and that slows him down. Give him a binary decision and let his speed do the rest IMO.
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