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jebrick
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 7125
Location: Indianapolis
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 Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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I'm rewatching the game now and Wallace looks disinterested. at times. Just not trying hard.
But the eagles do roll safety cover towards Wallace most of the time.
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"You build with draft choices. You find people with talents adaptable to your plans and then you teach them to do things the way we do them." - Chuck Noll |
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3rivers
Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 1692
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: Mike Wallace and Haley's offense |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | This isnt really meant to judge Mike Wallace's skills as a player, but more so his fit and role in this new offense.
Basically, Im not seeing it. Thats not to say he cant have success in this offense, but we rarely seem to attempt deep passes under Haley and Wallace's big play ability is going to waste.
Obviously, there are still 12 games left, but my question is...do we really want to pay top dollar for him? We probably wont be able to afford it anyway, but even if we clear enough space, is it worth investing that type of money in? Pretty evident that Brown is the go to guy now, and while Im a big Wallace fan, I just dont see him being worth top dollar in our current offense.
And while Im still not in favor of giving Mendy a big contract, the fact that Haley and even Ben seem to be looking at him more as a receiver, and the fact that Haley's running game is more complimentary to Mendy's running style than Arians offense was, Mendy may become the bigger priority.
Again...this isnt meant to argue against Wallace or even say I dont want to keep him, because I do.
My question is, is he worth top dollar TO US given our current offensive style? |
Our "current" as in last game? Seems like we can run the ball afterall, and Saunders will be back so this opens up more options.
Wallace was never worth top dollar since he isn't a complete receiver and blocks like a kicker. I would rather them let him go and get picks if he want $12M a year - he had his offer on the table and blew it.
We know which area I want to get addressed  This area doesn't require top $ contracts but good draft pick again.
Wallace was good for taking the top off the D, but our O will just have to take on a new look thats all. |
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3rivers
Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 1692
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| jebrick wrote: | I'm rewatching the game now and Wallace looks disinterested. at times. Just not trying hard.
But the eagles do roll safety cover towards Wallace most of the time. |
His blocking on one play looked disinterested. I don't like the guy, not Hines ward attitude at all. Good WR's can block, but this guy is not that type of player. This team needs attitude, not cry babies that want top $ but don't block and or look interested at times. |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40072
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: Mike Wallace and Haley's offense |
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| 3rivers wrote: | Our "current" as in last game? Seems like we can run the ball afterall, and Saunders will be back so this opens up more options.
Wallace was never worth top dollar since he isn't a complete receiver and blocks like a kicker. I would rather them let him go and get picks if he want $12M a year - he had his offer on the table and blew it. |
Current as in our offense in general....how Haley has this offense set up. Obviously things could change, but right now I see Wallace as expendable.
Randy Moss wasnt a complete WR and blocked like a kicker....are you saying he wasnt worth top money?
I know Wallace isnt on Moss' level and I dont think Wallace is worth say...Fitz or CJ money...but Wallace wanted VJax money and he is worth that for the right offense. Im
And I wish Steelers fans would quit making comments about Wallace "blowing" his contract opportunity. Why? Because he didnt take the first lowball offer they made?
Its business. Cant hate him just because he didnt take the deal you thought he was worth.
| 3rivers wrote: | We know which area I want to get addressed This area doesn't require top $ contracts but good draft pick again.
Wallace was good for taking the top off the D, but our O will just have to take on a new look thats all. |
The Oline doesnt need to have all high draft picks.
I know this wont be popular, but Ill say it anyway....I think Pouncey is starting to look like a minor bust at this point. The dude is inconsistent and average at best. This is coming from one of his biggest fans BEFORE we drafted him, so I take no pleasure in saying that. IMO, its poor coaching, and I have a feeling if they dont replace Kugler soon, its going to set Pouncey back for good and may even happen with DeCastrto.
They can spend first round picks on every OLineman...its not going to matter if they keep Kugler around IMO.
Fire Kugler....get DD back, coach him and Pouncey up right...maybe even Foster....and roll into next year with Starks-Foster-Pouncey-DeCastro-Gilbert and go from there.
No way we should be spending another high end pick on OLine next draft unless the value is similar to where we got DeCastro.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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at23steelers
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| @43: I want to see if our oline can improve over the course of the season before wanting Kugler gone. He finally has talent now, so I wanna see what he can do with it. They played their best game on Sunday, so I will hold out hope I didn't have before. The biggest problem I have with him is not coaching discipline enough. Seems like a left guard problem. Also, I do agree with your starting 5 for next year, with possibly flipping Foster and DD. |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40072
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| at23steelers wrote: | | @43: I want to see if our oline can improve over the course of the season before wanting Kugler gone. He finally has talent now, so I wanna see what he can do with it. They played their best game on Sunday, so I will hold out hope I didn't have before. The biggest problem I have with him is not coaching discipline enough. Seems like a left guard problem. Also, I do agree with your starting 5 for next year, with possibly flipping Foster and DD. |
The bolded is my issue as well.
Even with lack of talent, the lack of discipline and fundamental knowledge on our OLine is embarassing, and has been since he got here.
Obviously, he will be here the rest of the season, but I dont see things getting much better.
I personally never liked Kugler either. Like everyone, even players I dont like...Im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and a fair shot.
Kugler sucked in Buffalo and IMO has sucked here. I even defended him back in 2010 when our Oline was dropping like flies, but at this point, I just have seen nothing to change my mind about him. I think he is a bad OLine coach and dont see our young players going far under his tutelage.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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greene91fan
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 1732
Location: Steeler Nation!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:00 am Post subject: |
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I just kind of skimmed through the thread and I didn't see this mentioned, but it's worth noting in case it wasn't already. Wallace came into camp after the Buffalo game, and thus missed three to four weeks of preparation in this system. The lack of looking long is concerning considering what he brings to the table, however if the's still digesting a lot of terminology, reads, audibles/adjustments etc...it's not something I'm too worried about at this point.
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MightyJoeYoung
Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 2650
Location: Wakefield, England
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Steelers Depot has Pouncey at 88%, 86% and 94% waiting on the Eagles gradings.
Considering he was hampered by injury last year, it's hard to say he's a bust or 'average at best'. It's pretty ridiculous to say that IMO.
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40072
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| MightyJoeYoung wrote: | Steelers Depot has Pouncey at 88%, 86% and 94% waiting on the Eagles gradings.
Considering he was hampered by injury last year, it's hard to say he's a bust or 'average at best'. It's pretty ridiculous to say that IMO. |
Its not ridiculous at all to say he is average at best.
He isnt a bust at all, but he sure as hell hasnt been as good as the hype or what some Steeler fans might have you believe.
He played well vs the Eagles. He was awful vs the Raiders and average in the other two games.
Even if you dont consdier him average, he isnt much better.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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at23steelers
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | | MightyJoeYoung wrote: | Steelers Depot has Pouncey at 88%, 86% and 94% waiting on the Eagles gradings.
Considering he was hampered by injury last year, it's hard to say he's a bust or 'average at best'. It's pretty ridiculous to say that IMO. |
Its not ridiculous at all to say he is average at best.
He isnt a bust at all, but he sure as hell hasnt been as good as the hype or what some Steeler fans might have you believe.
He played well vs the Eagles. He was awful vs the Raiders and average in the other two games.
Even if you dont consdier him average, he isnt much better. |
Is it me or is center another position without too much depth. It's not as bad as safety, but even if I said I thought Pouncey was the 6th-8th best center in the league, he could still be constituted as average. |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40072
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| at23steelers wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: | | MightyJoeYoung wrote: | Steelers Depot has Pouncey at 88%, 86% and 94% waiting on the Eagles gradings.
Considering he was hampered by injury last year, it's hard to say he's a bust or 'average at best'. It's pretty ridiculous to say that IMO. |
Its not ridiculous at all to say he is average at best.
He isnt a bust at all, but he sure as hell hasnt been as good as the hype or what some Steeler fans might have you believe.
He played well vs the Eagles. He was awful vs the Raiders and average in the other two games.
Even if you dont consdier him average, he isnt much better. |
Is it me or is center another position without too much depth. It's not as bad as safety, but even if I said I thought Pouncey was the 6th-8th best center in the league, he could still be constituted as average. |
Right on the money.
There is a HUGE drop off between the top centers in this game and then those that might even be the 5th or 6th best.
I dont mind that Pouncey is average.....but he sure as hell isnt elite or even great. He had a great rookie season, but overrated due to hype....and he hasnt progressed much since, especially in the run game.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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treat88
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 5951
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:51 am Post subject: |
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I don't think I'd label Pouncey as average yet, just inconsistent.
While I think it's reasonable to classify his body of work to date as "average"overall, I don't think Pouncey is a finished product either and it's fair to point out that he's been significantly hampered by injuries.
I view him as a cornerstone player and a high upside talent that is still on the NFL learning curve for his position.
I see a distinction between "having been average" and "going to be average". One I agree with, the other not so much.
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40072
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| treat88 wrote: | I don't think I'd label Pouncey as average yet, just inconsistent.
While I think it's reasonable to classify his body of work to date as "average"overall, I don't think Pouncey is a finished product either and it's fair to point out that he's been significantly hampered by injuries.
I view him as a cornerstone player and a high upside talent that is still on the NFL learning curve for his position.
I see a distinction between "having been average" and "going to be average". One I agree with, the other not so much. |
If you look at my assessment earlier, I stated that I think he currently is average and for the most part has been average, and attributed much to that to the fact that Kugler is our coach.
I agree he isnt a finished product by any means, but I honestly do feel like if Kugler remains coach, average MAY be the term that defines Pouncey going forward.
I think Pouncey has the potential to be the best in the league. I just dont think Kugler is the man to unleash that full potential.
And playing next to garbage like Kemo and Colon doesnt help. Get Colon out, put DeCastro in...and hopefully we see some great chemistry there.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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treat88
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 5951
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | | treat88 wrote: | I don't think I'd label Pouncey as average yet, just inconsistent.
While I think it's reasonable to classify his body of work to date as "average"overall, I don't think Pouncey is a finished product either and it's fair to point out that he's been significantly hampered by injuries.
I view him as a cornerstone player and a high upside talent that is still on the NFL learning curve for his position.
I see a distinction between "having been average" and "going to be average". One I agree with, the other not so much. |
If you look at my assessment earlier, I stated that I think he currently is average and for the most part has been average, and attributed much to that to the fact that Kugler is our coach.
I agree he isnt a finished product by any means, but I honestly do feel like if Kugler remains coach, average MAY be the term that defines Pouncey going forward.
I think Pouncey has the potential to be the best in the league. I just dont think Kugler is the man to unleash that full potential.
And playing next to garbage like Kemo and Colon doesnt help. Get Colon out, put DeCastro in...and hopefully we see some great chemistry there. |
Yes. Kugler needs to move on and move on quickly.
There's certainly the possibility that once Pouncey's career is over we view him as an "average" talent. I'd bet pretty strongly against that outcome tho.
So, sounds like we agree on Pouncey's potential.
I'd guess he'd be amongst the top 5 C chosen if NFL GM's got together and redrafted teams. Obviously that's not factual, but that's about where I view him in the C hierarchy. Would he be #1 or #5...I have no clue...gets to be splitting hairs somewhat...but I guess it depends on how one defines average whether that constitutes average or not.
That's about where I think he fits in.
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SteelProven
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 10936
Location: Ramstein, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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This is the best thing to happen to the Steelers and Mike Wallace is Todd Haley's offense. It shows the Steelers what kind of "WR" M. Wallace is and it helps M. Wallace grow as a route running WR. It's been a up and down start for M. Wallace but I believe as the season wears on he'll produce. I want the Steelers to resign M. Wallace because it's a passing league. The more WR there are on the team the better the passing game will be.
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