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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14929
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:

We have a QB we can win w/ now. We NEED to bolster that defense. W/ a defensive minded coach also, I could see that happening over the offseason.


Win what? We have a QB who has never won a playoff game in his career so i'm not sure we can make those kind of statements.


I'm also not sure we can judge his playoff ability when he's only been twice- and one of those times he was knocked out of the game in the first series. Those Bengal teams were not exactly great, not to mention the fact that they shared a division with two of the best teams in the NFL over the last decade...


I wasn't judging his playoff ability. I'm just saying this is a QB who hasn't proven to be able to carry any team past an early exit in the playoffs and who's gonna have to deal with a re-building team around him for the next 2 years if we decide to keep him. So not exactly an all-pro roster.
So what can we expect to win in this scenario?


Don't get me wrong, I'm all for drafting an elite QB prospect. I know Palmer is not elite, but I really don't think the fact that he hasnt carried a team to a playoff win means much. No QB could carry this team that far. Even the great QBs have teams with far more talent than we have. His Bengal teams weren't very good, and even if they were, they still had the Steelers and Ravens dominating their division so good luck for any team to make the playoffs out of that division. For rebuilding purposes, yes we need a new QB. But as far as having one carry us to the playoffs, well that has nothing to do with Palmer because this team is so far from playoff contention and it isn't even about who is throwing the ball.



Palmer is a prime example of a QB who got absolutely no help from his team. No running game, poor coaching, few weapons on offense and then you wonder why he didnít win any playoff games.
The Raiders can draft Lucks twin brother and he will suck under this Coaching staff.


i hear you but he had all that in cinci and still didnt win
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:

We have a QB we can win w/ now. We NEED to bolster that defense. W/ a defensive minded coach also, I could see that happening over the offseason.


Win what? We have a QB who has never won a playoff game in his career so i'm not sure we can make those kind of statements.


I'm also not sure we can judge his playoff ability when he's only been twice- and one of those times he was knocked out of the game in the first series. Those Bengal teams were not exactly great, not to mention the fact that they shared a division with two of the best teams in the NFL over the last decade...


I wasn't judging his playoff ability. I'm just saying this is a QB who hasn't proven to be able to carry any team past an early exit in the playoffs and who's gonna have to deal with a re-building team around him for the next 2 years if we decide to keep him. So not exactly an all-pro roster.
So what can we expect to win in this scenario?


Don't get me wrong, I'm all for drafting an elite QB prospect. I know Palmer is not elite, but I really don't think the fact that he hasnt carried a team to a playoff win means much. No QB could carry this team that far. Even the great QBs have teams with far more talent than we have. His Bengal teams weren't very good, and even if they were, they still had the Steelers and Ravens dominating their division so good luck for any team to make the playoffs out of that division. For rebuilding purposes, yes we need a new QB. But as far as having one carry us to the playoffs, well that has nothing to do with Palmer because this team is so far from playoff contention and it isn't even about who is throwing the ball.


I can only guess you're missing where my comment was coming from. "We have a QB we can win with now" is what i was answering to. I have no idea what we're gonna win with this QB. And that's not to say this QB is bad, it's just that he isn't one who's gonna carry the kind of team we'll be fielding in the near future on his own.


Ah, I gotcha, my bad. Yea, with this current team there is no point in keeping Palmer. Even if we have the 1st overall pick and take a QB he will cost less than Palmer does. It makes sense to take a QB soon, build the team around him, and hopefully in 2-3 years we have enough talent all around to make it easier for that QB to get us to the playoffs.

As reddevil and JTagg said though, if we draft a QB high Reggie better be damn sure it is an elite-caliber QB. We can't afford to take a QB that high and have him bust or even just become pretty good. I'm all for the trade down strategy though. I am not completely sold on any QB in this class (although the year is still young). I'd be more comfortable trading back, still getting a 1st round graded QB, but also getting a lot of extra players for the next year or two. Why couldn't Luck have played his senior year? He graduated, but he could've just taken ballroom dancing like Matt Leinart did and then we would have a shot at him haha.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:

i hear you but he had all that in cinci and still didnt win




Cincy didn't change the culture of the team until the hired a GM.
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Nodisrespect on building inside out wrote:
teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:

Ah, I gotcha, my bad. Yea, with this current team there is no point in keeping Palmer. Even if we have the 1st overall pick and take a QB he will cost less than Palmer does. It makes sense to take a QB soon, build the team around him, and hopefully in 2-3 years we have enough talent all around to make it easier for that QB to get us to the playoffs.

As reddevil and JTagg said though, if we draft a QB high Reggie better be damn sure it is an elite-caliber QB. We can't afford to take a QB that high and have him bust or even just become pretty good. I'm all for the trade down strategy though. I am not completely sold on any QB in this class (although the year is still young). I'd be more comfortable trading back, still getting a 1st round graded QB, but also getting a lot of extra players for the next year or two. Why couldn't Luck have played his senior year? He graduated, but he could've just taken ballroom dancing like Matt Leinart did and then we would have a shot at him haha.


I respectfully disagree. I would not draft a rookie QB until the culture of the team has changed. Keep Palmer the next few seasons while the FO works out the kinks in the coaching staff, rebuilds the foundation of the team (ie: the trenches) in their vision. Continue to trade down & accumulate picks so when the QBotF IS drafted he won't be labored with all the extra curriculars that are current associated with the team. In my vision, Palmer will never win but he will be revered as a solid contributor to changing the locker room culture and taking on the burden of being the bridge to the future. As the Apache would do in desperate times, ride Palmer hard until he dies and then eat him.
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Nodisrespect on building inside out wrote:
teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5365
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:

i hear you but he had all that in cinci and still didnt win




Cincy didn't change the culture of the team until the hired a GM.


+1

They went to the playoffs twice: once Palmer was knocked out of the game on the first series so thats not his fault they lost. The other game he lost against a top-3 Jets defense. The other years included his first year starting, a 4-game injury-shoretened season, years of either bad D and/or poor run games, and tons of locker room turmoil. The Bengals offenses were ranked 10th, 4th, 8th, 11th, 22nd and 22nd in the seasons Palmer started (aside from his 4 game season), and half those years he had no real run game. Doesn't seem to me that their QB was the one holding them back...
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:

Ah, I gotcha, my bad. Yea, with this current team there is no point in keeping Palmer. Even if we have the 1st overall pick and take a QB he will cost less than Palmer does. It makes sense to take a QB soon, build the team around him, and hopefully in 2-3 years we have enough talent all around to make it easier for that QB to get us to the playoffs.

As reddevil and JTagg said though, if we draft a QB high Reggie better be damn sure it is an elite-caliber QB. We can't afford to take a QB that high and have him bust or even just become pretty good. I'm all for the trade down strategy though. I am not completely sold on any QB in this class (although the year is still young). I'd be more comfortable trading back, still getting a 1st round graded QB, but also getting a lot of extra players for the next year or two. Why couldn't Luck have played his senior year? He graduated, but he could've just taken ballroom dancing like Matt Leinart did and then we would have a shot at him haha.


I respectfully disagree. I would not draft a rookie QB until the culture of the team has changed. Keep Palmer the next few seasons while the FO works out the kinks in the coaching staff, rebuilds the foundation of the team (ie: the trenches) in their vision. Continue to trade down & accumulate picks so when the QBotF IS drafted he won't be labored with all the extra curriculars that are current associated with the team. In my vision, Palmer will never win but he will be revered as a solid contributor to changing the locker room culture and taking on the burden of being the bridge to the future. As the Apache would do in desperate times, ride Palmer hard until he dies and then eat him.


I meant in terms of finances. I actually like Palmer, and have been supporting him for some time now. But if our offense is not going to move forward, and we are indeed in a rebuild mode, why spend $16M on a QB that will not be here when the team finally is done rebuilding? I said in the next paragraph that I'm for trading down- whether we get a QB or not. In all honesty, I'd be happy building the team up around a veteran FA QB. They probably won't be as good as Palmer, but if we are gonna suck anyway we might as well save some money doing it. I'm a fan of building the offensive line and defense first, then get a QB. That may be 4 years down the road, but if we get a QB now, and it takes 4 years for our team to be competitive, then we have just wasted 4 years of a franchise QB. Whereas if we build up the rest of the team, the QB can come in and we can theoretically be competitive for his entire career. It would be easier to replace aging offensive linemen or linebackers than an aging QB.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5936
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:

Ah, I gotcha, my bad. Yea, with this current team there is no point in keeping Palmer. Even if we have the 1st overall pick and take a QB he will cost less than Palmer does. It makes sense to take a QB soon, build the team around him, and hopefully in 2-3 years we have enough talent all around to make it easier for that QB to get us to the playoffs.

As reddevil and JTagg said though, if we draft a QB high Reggie better be damn sure it is an elite-caliber QB. We can't afford to take a QB that high and have him bust or even just become pretty good. I'm all for the trade down strategy though. I am not completely sold on any QB in this class (although the year is still young). I'd be more comfortable trading back, still getting a 1st round graded QB, but also getting a lot of extra players for the next year or two. Why couldn't Luck have played his senior year? He graduated, but he could've just taken ballroom dancing like Matt Leinart did and then we would have a shot at him haha.


I respectfully disagree. I would not draft a rookie QB until the culture of the team has changed. Keep Palmer the next few seasons while the FO works out the kinks in the coaching staff, rebuilds the foundation of the team (ie: the trenches) in their vision. Continue to trade down & accumulate picks so when the QBotF IS drafted he won't be labored with all the extra curriculars that are current associated with the team. In my vision, Palmer will never win but he will be revered as a solid contributor to changing the locker room culture and taking on the burden of being the bridge to the future. As the Apache would do in desperate times, ride Palmer hard until he dies and then eat him.


I meant in terms of finances. I actually like Palmer, and have been supporting him for some time now. But if our offense is not going to move forward, and we are indeed in a rebuild mode, why spend $16M on a QB that will not be here when the team finally is done rebuilding? I said in the next paragraph that I'm for trading down- whether we get a QB or not. In all honesty, I'd be happy building the team up around a veteran FA QB. They probably won't be as good as Palmer, but if we are gonna suck anyway we might as well save some money doing it. I'm a fan of building the offensive line and defense first, then get a QB. That may be 4 years down the road, but if we get a QB now, and it takes 4 years for our team to be competitive, then we have just wasted 4 years of a franchise QB. Whereas if we build up the rest of the team, the QB can come in and we can theoretically be competitive for his entire career. It would be easier to replace aging offensive linemen or linebackers than an aging QB.


Who cares if Palmer makes $1 Billion next season if he only counts $1 against the cap? Obviously, Palmer will restructure as long as he wants to be in Oakland.
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Nodisrespect on building inside out wrote:
teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14929
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:

i hear you but he had all that in cinci and still didnt win




Cincy didn't change the culture of the team until the hired a GM.


+1

They went to the playoffs twice: once Palmer was knocked out of the game on the first series so thats not his fault they lost. The other game he lost against a top-3 Jets defense. The other years included his first year starting, a 4-game injury-shoretened season, years of either bad D and/or poor run games, and tons of locker room turmoil. The Bengals offenses were ranked 10th, 4th, 8th, 11th, 22nd and 22nd in the seasons Palmer started (aside from his 4 game season), and half those years he had no real run game. Doesn't seem to me that their QB was the one holding them back...


excuse, excuses.

i understand the injury thing but when you are in the playoffs guess what you play the best teams in the nfl. he had pitt and balt in his division so the top 3 defense excuse doesnt fly with me. you either get it done and get props or you dont.
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:

excuse, excuses.

i understand the injury thing but when you are in the playoffs guess what you play the best teams in the nfl. he had pitt and balt in his division so the top 3 defense excuse doesnt fly with me. you either get it done and get props or you dont.


Get back to us whenever you back from bullcrap mountain where peeps live in a bubble. Why would anyone try to have a reasonable conversation with you about Palmer anyways? LOL. Cya you in the other thread where we are actually having a multi-directional converstation.
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Nodisrespect on building inside out wrote:
teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:

i hear you but he had all that in cinci and still didnt win




Cincy didn't change the culture of the team until the hired a GM.


+1

They went to the playoffs twice: once Palmer was knocked out of the game on the first series so thats not his fault they lost. The other game he lost against a top-3 Jets defense. The other years included his first year starting, a 4-game injury-shoretened season, years of either bad D and/or poor run games, and tons of locker room turmoil. The Bengals offenses were ranked 10th, 4th, 8th, 11th, 22nd and 22nd in the seasons Palmer started (aside from his 4 game season), and half those years he had no real run game. Doesn't seem to me that their QB was the one holding them back...


excuse, excuses.

i understand the injury thing but when you are in the playoffs guess what you play the best teams in the nfl. he had pitt and balt in his division so the top 3 defense excuse doesnt fly with me. you either get it done and get props or you dont.


Ha, so he loses ONE playoff game... whether its a good d or a bad d, its one game. How can you judge a player off one game? It took Peyton Manning 4 tries before winning his first playoff game (on MUCH better teams, mind you), but Palmer loses the only one he's played in and is therefore dubbed a QB who can't win in the playoffs?

BTW, he actually has respectable career stats against both Baltimore and Pittsburg, considering how great those D's were.
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La_Vader wrote:
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14929
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:

i hear you but he had all that in cinci and still didnt win




Cincy didn't change the culture of the team until the hired a GM.


+1

They went to the playoffs twice: once Palmer was knocked out of the game on the first series so thats not his fault they lost. The other game he lost against a top-3 Jets defense. The other years included his first year starting, a 4-game injury-shoretened season, years of either bad D and/or poor run games, and tons of locker room turmoil. The Bengals offenses were ranked 10th, 4th, 8th, 11th, 22nd and 22nd in the seasons Palmer started (aside from his 4 game season), and half those years he had no real run game. Doesn't seem to me that their QB was the one holding them back...


excuse, excuses.

i understand the injury thing but when you are in the playoffs guess what you play the best teams in the nfl. he had pitt and balt in his division so the top 3 defense excuse doesnt fly with me. you either get it done and get props or you dont.


Ha, so he loses ONE playoff game... whether its a good d or a bad d, its one game. How can you judge a player off one game? It took Peyton Manning 4 tries before winning his first playoff game (on MUCH better teams, mind you), but Palmer loses the only one he's played in and is therefore dubbed a QB who can't win in the playoffs?

BTW, he actually has respectable career stats against both Baltimore and Pittsburg, considering how great those D's were.


do you think anyone cried or made excuses for peyton?
think about elway and all the times he got booted from the playoffs and nobody cried or made excuses for him.

no, a loss is a loss. it doesnt matter if it was a top 3 defense or not.
i just dont get why all these excuses are made for cp. he has never won a playoff game. it is what it is. you can blame everyone else in the world but it doesnt change the loss.
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:

i hear you but he had all that in cinci and still didnt win




Cincy didn't change the culture of the team until the hired a GM.


+1

They went to the playoffs twice: once Palmer was knocked out of the game on the first series so thats not his fault they lost. The other game he lost against a top-3 Jets defense. The other years included his first year starting, a 4-game injury-shoretened season, years of either bad D and/or poor run games, and tons of locker room turmoil. The Bengals offenses were ranked 10th, 4th, 8th, 11th, 22nd and 22nd in the seasons Palmer started (aside from his 4 game season), and half those years he had no real run game. Doesn't seem to me that their QB was the one holding them back...


excuse, excuses.

i understand the injury thing but when you are in the playoffs guess what you play the best teams in the nfl. he had pitt and balt in his division so the top 3 defense excuse doesnt fly with me. you either get it done and get props or you dont.


Ha, so he loses ONE playoff game... whether its a good d or a bad d, its one game. How can you judge a player off one game? It took Peyton Manning 4 tries before winning his first playoff game (on MUCH better teams, mind you), but Palmer loses the only one he's played in and is therefore dubbed a QB who can't win in the playoffs?

BTW, he actually has respectable career stats against both Baltimore and Pittsburg, considering how great those D's were.


do you think anyone cried or made excuses for peyton?
think about elway and all the times he got booted from the playoffs and nobody cried or made excuses for him.

no, a loss is a loss. it doesnt matter if it was a top 3 defense or not.
i just dont get why all these excuses are made for cp. he has never won a playoff game. it is what it is. you can blame everyone else in the world but it doesnt change the loss.


Its not about excuses. I'm not arguing about why he lost, I'm saying the dude has only had one game in the playoffs. Does he really only get that one shot to prove anything before people say he can't win in the playoffs? It would be accurate to say he hasn't, but to say he can't or doesn't suggests he has a reputation for doing so- as Peyton did before he started winning. If a QB loses 4 playoff games, its reasonable to say he doesn't win in the playoffs. If he's lost once, its a little skewed.

edit: I know you didn't say he can't or doesn't win in the playoffs. Whoever said the original post that sparked it did. My point is just because he didn't win the one playoff game he actually played in, doesn't have any bearing on his playoff potential. Unless of course we are talking this team, because nobody is taking them to the playoffs.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:

i hear you but he had all that in cinci and still didnt win




Cincy didn't change the culture of the team until the hired a GM.


+1

They went to the playoffs twice: once Palmer was knocked out of the game on the first series so thats not his fault they lost. The other game he lost against a top-3 Jets defense. The other years included his first year starting, a 4-game injury-shoretened season, years of either bad D and/or poor run games, and tons of locker room turmoil. The Bengals offenses were ranked 10th, 4th, 8th, 11th, 22nd and 22nd in the seasons Palmer started (aside from his 4 game season), and half those years he had no real run game. Doesn't seem to me that their QB was the one holding them back...


excuse, excuses.

i understand the injury thing but when you are in the playoffs guess what you play the best teams in the nfl. he had pitt and balt in his division so the top 3 defense excuse doesnt fly with me. you either get it done and get props or you dont.


Ha, so he loses ONE playoff game... whether its a good d or a bad d, its one game. How can you judge a player off one game? It took Peyton Manning 4 tries before winning his first playoff game (on MUCH better teams, mind you), but Palmer loses the only one he's played in and is therefore dubbed a QB who can't win in the playoffs?

BTW, he actually has respectable career stats against both Baltimore and Pittsburg, considering how great those D's were.


do you think anyone cried or made excuses for peyton?
think about elway and all the times he got booted from the playoffs and nobody cried or made excuses for him.

no, a loss is a loss. it doesnt matter if it was a top 3 defense or not.
i just dont get why all these excuses are made for cp. he has never won a playoff game. it is what it is. you can blame everyone else in the world but it doesnt change the loss.


Its not about excuses. I'm not arguing about why he lost, I'm saying the dude has only had one game in the playoffs. Does he really only get that one shot to prove anything before people say he can't win in the playoffs? It would be accurate to say he hasn't, but to say he can't or doesn't suggests he has a reputation for doing so- as Peyton did before he started winning. If a QB loses 4 playoff games, its reasonable to say he doesn't win in the playoffs. If he's lost once, its a little skewed.

edit: I know you didn't say he can't or doesn't win in the playoffs. Whoever said the original post that sparked it did. My point is just because he didn't win the one playoff game he actually played in, doesn't have any bearing on his playoff potential. Unless of course we are talking this team, because nobody is taking them to the playoffs.


didnt see the op. but yea a win is a win a loss is a loss.
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3656
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:

i hear you but he had all that in cinci and still didnt win




Cincy didn't change the culture of the team until the hired a GM.


+1

They went to the playoffs twice: once Palmer was knocked out of the game on the first series so thats not his fault they lost. The other game he lost against a top-3 Jets defense. The other years included his first year starting, a 4-game injury-shoretened season, years of either bad D and/or poor run games, and tons of locker room turmoil. The Bengals offenses were ranked 10th, 4th, 8th, 11th, 22nd and 22nd in the seasons Palmer started (aside from his 4 game season), and half those years he had no real run game. Doesn't seem to me that their QB was the one holding them back...


excuse, excuses.

i understand the injury thing but when you are in the playoffs guess what you play the best teams in the nfl. he had pitt and balt in his division so the top 3 defense excuse doesnt fly with me. you either get it done and get props or you dont.




The D-linemen took a cheap shot on Palmer's knee and knocked him out. Can't blame Palmer for that.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:

excuse, excuses.

i understand the injury thing but when you are in the playoffs guess what you play the best teams in the nfl. he had pitt and balt in his division so the top 3 defense excuse doesnt fly with me. you either get it done and get props or you dont.


You gave Campbell and Pryor tons of excuses. You just hate Palmer, that's all. Reasoning w/ you about him is physically impossible.

EDIT: AND HOW COULD I FORGET that you are the KING of excuses for that bleeping moron JaMarcus Russell. Hell, you STILL gave that dude excuses earlier this year. Terrible. You just need to stop talking Carson. You are the definition of a hypocrite.
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