Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Offensive line run blocking
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 15293
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Everyone likes to blame Bush, but the Oline became a little suspect in run blocking late last year.


It's gonna happen when opposing defenses can focus on stopping inside runs all game long because the RB can't run to the outside.
Maybe the oline didn't play as well as they did at the start of the season but there's no question in my mind Bush was the main issue. Anyone watching the games last season could see he had no explosion left in his legs past his 4th game as the featured back.


this. plus bush is a bigger back who never got that many carries since maybe college and we had no one to back him up. it was pathetic how we never brought in another guy. imo the o-line played good. when samson went down wiz slid over and we never missed a beat.
_________________


green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 6495
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Everyone likes to blame Bush, but the Oline became a little suspect in run blocking late last year.


It's gonna happen when opposing defenses can focus on stopping inside runs all game long because the RB can't run to the outside.
Maybe the oline didn't play as well as they did at the start of the season but there's no question in my mind Bush was the main issue. Anyone watching the games last season could see he had no explosion left in his legs past his 4th game as the featured back.


+1

I totally agree. I'm not blaming Bush as he was overused but clearly he began to wear down in short fashion.
_________________
Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 8674
Location: CA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest problem with the Raiders run game is Greg Knapp's inability to commit to it successfully. He hasn't instilled the gritty, run first mentality that most expected from the offense coming into the season. He loves passing formations on 1st down, and avoiding the middle with stretch handoffs that go for no yardage. If the Raiders pounded the middle on early downs, it'd give Palmer more manageable distances to work with on 3rd down, in addition to making the Raiders outside run plays more effective.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 22319
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

man it this line ever blocks the way Houston's does we will be good to go. Foster isnt being close to being touch before he gets to the second level. Its crazy. Shaubb runs the playaction better than any other QB in this league right now. But all this works cause they can be patient on offense cause their defense is crazy. I would trade a 1st and 3rd for somebody like JJ Watt.

But if our oline ever block in sequence like Houstons our offense may be able to do some things. But it takes years not months to get it right.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5774
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
man it this line ever blocks the way Houston's does we will be good to go. Foster isnt being close to being touch before he gets to the second level. Its crazy. Shaubb runs the playaction better than any other QB in this league right now. But all this works cause they can be patient on offense cause their defense is crazy. I would trade a 1st and 3rd for somebody like JJ Watt.

But if our oline ever block in sequence like Houstons our offense may be able to do some things. But it takes years not months to get it right.


Gee I sure would like to draft someone for once like J.J. Watt, rather than always talking about hoping to nab a guy like him in free agency or trading picks for him.
That's the major issue here, a team like the Texans drafted him and we didn't. We haven't drafted a truly game changing defender in how long? Don't say Asomugha, as great as the guy was at his job he was not a game changer. Dare I say Darrell Russell was the last one. Short lived. Before that... jeez...

Oline needs time to block as a unit. Give them time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22854
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
man it this line ever blocks the way Houston's does we will be good to go. Foster isnt being close to being touch before he gets to the second level. Its crazy. Shaubb runs the playaction better than any other QB in this league right now. But all this works cause they can be patient on offense cause their defense is crazy. I would trade a 1st and 3rd for somebody like JJ Watt.

But if our oline ever block in sequence like Houstons our offense may be able to do some things. But it takes years not months to get it right.


This is what the staff is thinking, no doubt.

It's easy to blame Knapp, but when the execution fails in this scheme, it blows it up. It took Kubiak a number of years to get it working. It requires the Oline to be working as one unit. If one misses assignment, everything fails.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 9166
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
man it this line ever blocks the way Houston's does we will be good to go. Foster isnt being close to being touch before he gets to the second level. Its crazy. Shaubb runs the playaction better than any other QB in this league right now. But all this works cause they can be patient on offense cause their defense is crazy. I would trade a 1st and 3rd for somebody like JJ Watt.

But if our oline ever block in sequence like Houstons our offense may be able to do some things. But it takes years not months to get it right.


This is what the staff is thinking, no doubt.

It's easy to blame Knapp, but when the execution fails in this scheme, it blows it up. It took Kubiak a number of years to get it working. It requires the Oline to be working as one unit. If one misses assignment, everything fails.


The Bergstrom pick is making more an more sense to me. Didnt hate it but didnt like it with who was still left.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 8674
Location: CA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
man it this line ever blocks the way Houston's does we will be good to go. Foster isnt being close to being touch before he gets to the second level. Its crazy. Shaubb runs the playaction better than any other QB in this league right now. But all this works cause they can be patient on offense cause their defense is crazy. I would trade a 1st and 3rd for somebody like JJ Watt.

But if our oline ever block in sequence like Houstons our offense may be able to do some things. But it takes years not months to get it right.


This is what the staff is thinking, no doubt.

It's easy to blame Knapp, but when the execution fails in this scheme, it blows it up. It took Kubiak a number of years to get it working. It requires the Oline to be working as one unit. If one misses assignment, everything fails.


Do you realize how poor the Texans offensive line was that Gary Kubiak took over? Their line was infamously bad. There's no comparison between that line and the one Knapp is working with now. If it takes years to get the ZBS working, why did it work in it's first season with the Raiders back in 2007?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22854
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
man it this line ever blocks the way Houston's does we will be good to go. Foster isnt being close to being touch before he gets to the second level. Its crazy. Shaubb runs the playaction better than any other QB in this league right now. But all this works cause they can be patient on offense cause their defense is crazy. I would trade a 1st and 3rd for somebody like JJ Watt.

But if our oline ever block in sequence like Houstons our offense may be able to do some things. But it takes years not months to get it right.


This is what the staff is thinking, no doubt.

It's easy to blame Knapp, but when the execution fails in this scheme, it blows it up. It took Kubiak a number of years to get it working. It requires the Oline to be working as one unit. If one misses assignment, everything fails.


Do you realize how poor the Texans offensive line was that Gary Kubiak took over? Their line was infamously bad. There's no comparison between that line and the one Knapp is working with now. If it takes years to get the ZBS working, why did it work in it's first season with the Raiders back in 2007?


The Raiders Oline talent and depth is pretty bad. But this isn't about talent. this is about scheme and the fact that running it takes some time.

Heck, even Washington struggled with it last year for stretches and they are night and day today in it.

You want to blame Knapp, that's fine. But if he had the talent and time to execute the offense, it would be a lot different.

The Oline needs to be on point to get holes open in the run game. Then you feed off that w/ play action. The Raiders Oline outside Veldheer/Wiz is suspect. Myers is miserable blocking out there. Watch Houston's TEs execute the blocking scheme, it's seamless.

Bottom line, the Raiders haven't had enough time with it nor do they have a lot of talent for it. It will get better going forward, but how much so is anyone's guess.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BigMike1b


Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 1879
Location: 626, CA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
man it this line ever blocks the way Houston's does we will be good to go. Foster isnt being close to being touch before he gets to the second level. Its crazy. Shaubb runs the playaction better than any other QB in this league right now. But all this works cause they can be patient on offense cause their defense is crazy. I would trade a 1st and 3rd for somebody like JJ Watt.

But if our oline ever block in sequence like Houstons our offense may be able to do some things. But it takes years not months to get it right.


This is what the staff is thinking, no doubt.

It's easy to blame Knapp, but when the execution fails in this scheme, it blows it up. It took Kubiak a number of years to get it working. It requires the Oline to be working as one unit. If one misses assignment, everything fails.


If it takes years to get the ZBS working, why did it work in it's first season with the Raiders back in 2007?


That is a darn good question. We ran the ball very well with Justin Fargas and Dominic Rhodes. That year our offensive line was:

LT- Barry Sims

LG- Robert Gallery

C- Jeremy Newberry

RG- Cooper Carlisle

RT- Cornell Green.

It makes me think like WTF? Our offensive line has two guys who are much better than any of those guys, but it just shows you how much cohesiveness really plays into success with the zone scheme.
_________________


2012 Adopt a Raider: DE Lamarr Houston

Silver&Black88 with the sweet sig!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 8674
Location: CA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigMike1b wrote:
Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
man it this line ever blocks the way Houston's does we will be good to go. Foster isnt being close to being touch before he gets to the second level. Its crazy. Shaubb runs the playaction better than any other QB in this league right now. But all this works cause they can be patient on offense cause their defense is crazy. I would trade a 1st and 3rd for somebody like JJ Watt.

But if our oline ever block in sequence like Houstons our offense may be able to do some things. But it takes years not months to get it right.


This is what the staff is thinking, no doubt.

It's easy to blame Knapp, but when the execution fails in this scheme, it blows it up. It took Kubiak a number of years to get it working. It requires the Oline to be working as one unit. If one misses assignment, everything fails.


If it takes years to get the ZBS working, why did it work in it's first season with the Raiders back in 2007?


That is a darn good question. We ran the ball very well with Justin Fargas and Dominic Rhodes. That year our offensive line was:

LT- Barry Sims

LG- Robert Gallery

C- Jeremy Newberry

RG- Cooper Carlisle

RT- Cornell Green.

It makes me think like WTF? Our offensive line has two guys who are much better than any of those guys, but it just shows you how much cohesiveness really plays into success with the zone scheme.


Aside from Barry Sims, everyone on that offensive line was new. That was Gallery's first year at LG, while the rest of the line was signed that same off-season.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22854
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
BigMike1b wrote:
Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
man it this line ever blocks the way Houston's does we will be good to go. Foster isnt being close to being touch before he gets to the second level. Its crazy. Shaubb runs the playaction better than any other QB in this league right now. But all this works cause they can be patient on offense cause their defense is crazy. I would trade a 1st and 3rd for somebody like JJ Watt.

But if our oline ever block in sequence like Houstons our offense may be able to do some things. But it takes years not months to get it right.


This is what the staff is thinking, no doubt.

It's easy to blame Knapp, but when the execution fails in this scheme, it blows it up. It took Kubiak a number of years to get it working. It requires the Oline to be working as one unit. If one misses assignment, everything fails.


If it takes years to get the ZBS working, why did it work in it's first season with the Raiders back in 2007?


That is a darn good question. We ran the ball very well with Justin Fargas and Dominic Rhodes. That year our offensive line was:

LT- Barry Sims

LG- Robert Gallery

C- Jeremy Newberry

RG- Cooper Carlisle

RT- Cornell Green.

It makes me think like WTF? Our offensive line has two guys who are much better than any of those guys, but it just shows you how much cohesiveness really plays into success with the zone scheme.


Aside from Barry Sims, everyone on that offensive line was new. That was Gallery's first year at LG, while the rest of the line was signed that same off-season.


And Gallery had his best season at LG. Newberry was the C a former Probowler and Carlisle came over from Shanahan's ZBS in Denver and was one of Oakland's best Olinemen at that point.

That Oline was better than this group. RT however seems to still be a joke after all these years.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 2622
Location: Europe
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
BigMike1b wrote:
Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
man it this line ever blocks the way Houston's does we will be good to go. Foster isnt being close to being touch before he gets to the second level. Its crazy. Shaubb runs the playaction better than any other QB in this league right now. But all this works cause they can be patient on offense cause their defense is crazy. I would trade a 1st and 3rd for somebody like JJ Watt.

But if our oline ever block in sequence like Houstons our offense may be able to do some things. But it takes years not months to get it right.


This is what the staff is thinking, no doubt.

It's easy to blame Knapp, but when the execution fails in this scheme, it blows it up. It took Kubiak a number of years to get it working. It requires the Oline to be working as one unit. If one misses assignment, everything fails.


If it takes years to get the ZBS working, why did it work in it's first season with the Raiders back in 2007?


That is a darn good question. We ran the ball very well with Justin Fargas and Dominic Rhodes. That year our offensive line was:

LT- Barry Sims

LG- Robert Gallery

C- Jeremy Newberry

RG- Cooper Carlisle

RT- Cornell Green.

It makes me think like WTF? Our offensive line has two guys who are much better than any of those guys, but it just shows you how much cohesiveness really plays into success with the zone scheme.


Aside from Barry Sims, everyone on that offensive line was new. That was Gallery's first year at LG, while the rest of the line was signed that same off-season.

While it is true there are some big differences IMO.

Sims was a veteran LT who was well suited for the ZBS.
Gallery was finally in his place at LG in ZBS. That what he was made for.
Newberry had ZBS history if I'm right.
Cooper was in his 8th year...basically still in his prime and he was a ZBS guy\expert.
Green was a ZBS vet and most importantly he played together with Cooper in Denver in ZBS, which basically made our right side...

It was not better player by player, but it was better as a unit, because it consisted solid vet's who new the scheme.

Now we have 2 young guys without ZBS experience, the same Cooper with 5 more years in his body a solid ZBS RG, who struggles without stable RT pair and a young not too shinny RT without TC with this unit...
Oh please not forget that Wiz missed all offseason with injuries...

So this line has better players at LT and C, while that line had better players at LG and RT(however the RT battle is close and if Barnes would be healthy he would be better then Cornell was as a player) and I think the Cooper of '07 is similar to Brisiel now...But there is the right side chemistry and the veteran knowledge, experience to the '07 group.

Also not forget that we are talking just run block here...That '07 group was really bad in pass prot., while the current group gives good\solid protection to Palmer...

In one year time we will have a lot better OL then the '07 was in any category.
_________________
WIN LOSE OR TIE...RAIDER FAN 'TIL I DIE!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 9166
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget Tom Cable. Bad HC but great OL coach. Everywhere he has been the OL was good. I blame the OL issues more on the OL coach than Knapp. But it will come together.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 8674
Location: CA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Darkness wrote:
BigMike1b wrote:
Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
man it this line ever blocks the way Houston's does we will be good to go. Foster isnt being close to being touch before he gets to the second level. Its crazy. Shaubb runs the playaction better than any other QB in this league right now. But all this works cause they can be patient on offense cause their defense is crazy. I would trade a 1st and 3rd for somebody like JJ Watt.

But if our oline ever block in sequence like Houstons our offense may be able to do some things. But it takes years not months to get it right.


This is what the staff is thinking, no doubt.

It's easy to blame Knapp, but when the execution fails in this scheme, it blows it up. It took Kubiak a number of years to get it working. It requires the Oline to be working as one unit. If one misses assignment, everything fails.


If it takes years to get the ZBS working, why did it work in it's first season with the Raiders back in 2007?


That is a darn good question. We ran the ball very well with Justin Fargas and Dominic Rhodes. That year our offensive line was:

LT- Barry Sims

LG- Robert Gallery

C- Jeremy Newberry

RG- Cooper Carlisle

RT- Cornell Green.

It makes me think like WTF? Our offensive line has two guys who are much better than any of those guys, but it just shows you how much cohesiveness really plays into success with the zone scheme.


Aside from Barry Sims, everyone on that offensive line was new. That was Gallery's first year at LG, while the rest of the line was signed that same off-season.


And Gallery had his best season at LG. Newberry was the C a former Probowler and Carlisle came over from Shanahan's ZBS in Denver and was one of Oakland's best Olinemen at that point.

That Oline was better than this group. RT however seems to still be a joke after all these years.


Gallery was playing a new position in a new scheme. Newberry missed the entire season prior, and only played 1 more season after. Carlisle's success in Denver was similar to Briesel's in Houston.

The biggest difference between the two teams is coaching. Lane Kiffin called the plays and Tom Cable implemented the ZBS. Now that Knapp is responsible for both, it's easy to see where he's falling short.

The Raiders are dead last in rushing. Some of you don't want Greg Knapp to take accountability for that, but he will when the season's over.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 5 of 10

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group