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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 25352
Location: Middle of Nowhere VA
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 Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Why bother firing him? I mean, it wouldn't accomplish anything. Even if it sparked us what would it mean but missing out on the #1 |
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fatpig
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 2204
Location: cleveland
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Estonianzulu wrote: | | Why bother firing him? I mean, it wouldn't accomplish anything. Even if it sparked us what would it mean but missing out on the #1 |
ugh. i couldn't disagree more with this train of thought. success breeds success. being the worst in the league won't do anything for us even if it means we get the 1st overall pick. i'd take wins and momentum to establish a culture of winning, even if its just a few games, over continuing the culture of suck just for the sake of sucking and getting a high draft pick, who will then join a demoralized team.
i'm on the fire Shurmur wagon. disliked him last year, dislike him more now. Haslam will put the hammer down to make it known that one's job is not safe if they are terrible at what they do. |
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Dawgpoun8017
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 12136
Location: Waterloo,NY
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| fatpig wrote: | | Estonianzulu wrote: | | Why bother firing him? I mean, it wouldn't accomplish anything. Even if it sparked us what would it mean but missing out on the #1 |
ugh. i couldn't disagree more with this train of thought. success breeds success. being the worst in the league won't do anything for us even if it means we get the 1st overall pick. i'd take wins and momentum to establish a culture of winning, even if its just a few games, over continuing the culture of suck just for the sake of sucking and getting a high draft pick, who will then join a demoralized team.
i'm on the fire Shurmur wagon. disliked him last year, dislike him more now. Haslam will put the hammer down to make it known that one's job is not safe if they are terrible at what they do. |
How'd that work out for us when we won our last 4 when mangini was here
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fatpig
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 2204
Location: cleveland
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Dawgpoun8017 wrote: | | fatpig wrote: | | Estonianzulu wrote: | | Why bother firing him? I mean, it wouldn't accomplish anything. Even if it sparked us what would it mean but missing out on the #1 |
ugh. i couldn't disagree more with this train of thought. success breeds success. being the worst in the league won't do anything for us even if it means we get the 1st overall pick. i'd take wins and momentum to establish a culture of winning, even if its just a few games, over continuing the culture of suck just for the sake of sucking and getting a high draft pick, who will then join a demoralized team.
i'm on the fire Shurmur wagon. disliked him last year, dislike him more now. Haslam will put the hammer down to make it known that one's job is not safe if they are terrible at what they do. |
How'd that work out for us when we won our last 4 when mangini was here |
i had fun watching those games, did you? or would you rather have watched the team suck for those games
it didn't work that time. doesn't mean that winning isn't good for an organization. |
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LETSGOBROWNIES
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 7900
Location: CINCINNATI
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| fsubrowns9510 wrote: |
Who?
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Winn (rookie, 6th) was a starter.
Hughes (rookie, 3rd) was rotated.
Fort, Stephens, Kitchen and Robertson (UDFA) all rotated.
Wade (7th) was rotated and #2 after Patterson's injury.
Skrine (5th) started.
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Kathouse Sticks
Joined: 07 Mar 2012
Posts: 62
Location: Gahanna, Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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What are the A) Pros of hiring Jon Gruden versus the B) Cons of hiring Jon Gruden, if that were to happen?
And also, does Bill Cowher have any bearing on the discussion of a new Browns coach?
Thanks! |
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Ether
Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 1892
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Dawgpoun8017 wrote: | | fatpig wrote: | | Estonianzulu wrote: | | Why bother firing him? I mean, it wouldn't accomplish anything. Even if it sparked us what would it mean but missing out on the #1 |
ugh. i couldn't disagree more with this train of thought. success breeds success. being the worst in the league won't do anything for us even if it means we get the 1st overall pick. i'd take wins and momentum to establish a culture of winning, even if its just a few games, over continuing the culture of suck just for the sake of sucking and getting a high draft pick, who will then join a demoralized team.
i'm on the fire Shurmur wagon. disliked him last year, dislike him more now. Haslam will put the hammer down to make it known that one's job is not safe if they are terrible at what they do. |
How'd that work out for us when we won our last 4 when mangini was here |
I'm still kinda fond of that season following that one though. |
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fsubrowns9510
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 13178
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| LETSGOBROWNIES wrote: | | fsubrowns9510 wrote: |
Who?
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Winn (rookie, 6th) was a starter.
Hughes (rookie, 3rd) was rotated.
Fort, Stephens, Kitchen and Robertson (UDFA) all rotated.
Wade (7th) was rotated and #2 after Patterson's injury.
Skrine (5th) started. |
I know alot of guys rotated but we've seen that situation for a long time.
The bulk of your starters were supposed starters to begin with. Its time for them to make plays.
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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 25352
Location: Middle of Nowhere VA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| fatpig wrote: |
i had fun watching those games, did you? or would you rather have watched the team suck for those games |
I'll preface this by saying I always root for the Browns to win, always.
How many wins from last season would you trade for Andrew Luck? |
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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 25352
Location: Middle of Nowhere VA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Kathouse Sticks wrote: | What are the A) Pros of hiring Jon Gruden versus the B) Cons of hiring Jon Gruden, if that were to happen?
And also, does Bill Cowher have any bearing on the discussion of a new Browns coach?
Thanks! |
A) You get an experienced coach, a Super Bowl champion and a well respected coach
B) He was average for much of the last decade. He had a losing record after winning the Super Bowl, he never developed a QB who was a long term answer and instead bounced around them.
From 2003 starting QB's for Tampa Bay:
Brad Johnson
Brian Griese
Chris Simms
Tim Rattay
Bruce Gradkowski
Luke McCown
Jeff Garcia
Not exactly a list of winners.
His greatest success came from a roster that someone else developed with one of the decade's great defensive coordinator's on the team.
And Bill Cowher has no bearing, He was gone from Pittsburgh by the time Haslam arrived and has shown no real interest in coming back to coach. |
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Drew_Carey
Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Posts: 1478
Location: Seattle - Cleveland
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Estonianzulu wrote: | | fatpig wrote: |
i had fun watching those games, did you? or would you rather have watched the team suck for those games |
I'll preface this by saying I always root for the Browns to win, always.
How many wins from last season would you trade for Andrew Luck? |
I can be honest... All of them. |
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SOCALBrowns
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 901
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| fatpig wrote: | | Estonianzulu wrote: | | Why bother firing him? I mean, it wouldn't accomplish anything. Even if it sparked us what would it mean but missing out on the #1 |
ugh. i couldn't disagree more with this train of thought. success breeds success. being the worst in the league won't do anything for us even if it means we get the 1st overall pick. i'd take wins and momentum to establish a culture of winning, even if its just a few games, over continuing the culture of suck just for the sake of sucking and getting a high draft pick, who will then join a demoralized team.
i'm on the fire Shurmur wagon. disliked him last year, dislike him more now. Haslam will put the hammer down to make it known that one's job is not safe if they are terrible at what they do. |
Couldnt agree more. Success breeds success and this owner is not going to be averse to blowing things up. You will not be "patient" with a billion dollar investment just because you feel bad for a guy like Shurmur. He will bring in a proven winner. Someone whos demeanor and presence resembles his own. Shurmur is a coordinator at best - lacks the personality, leadership or motivation necessary to be a winning head coach.
Holmgren picked him because he came from the same coaching tree and had the same agent. What else he saw in him I don't know.
If I have to hear one more time how the team "battled" or so and so "battled" I think I will throw up just a little in my mouth. I'm sick of that. This is football for God's sake and its about W's. I dont care what anyone on here thinks about the "process" or how young and inexperienced this team is. We are 3 years into the Holmgren experience. Time to get W's - thats what this game is about. 0-5 just doesnt cut it no matter how much the team battles.
W's people W's. Find a coach and players that can bring W's to Cleveland. |
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NateDawg
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 14782
Location: Hilliard
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| Drew_Carey wrote: | | Estonianzulu wrote: | | fatpig wrote: |
i had fun watching those games, did you? or would you rather have watched the team suck for those games |
I'll preface this by saying I always root for the Browns to win, always.
How many wins from last season would you trade for Andrew Luck? |
I can be honest... All of them. |
Same.
Likewise, do you think Colts fan regret having an abysmal 1997 season, or do you think they wish they had gone 6-10 instead, missing out on Peyton Manning?
I think they'd trade the losses that season for the dozens that Manning gave them, along with a Super Bowl.
With that said, I am tired of losing. If we can turn things around and put wins up there with players that can build around, and start turning the losing culture around, I'm all for it. This city needs something to get excited about. And I don't mean the excitement of yet another top 5 draft pick.
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bungleodeon
Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 8678
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| NateDawg wrote: | | Drew_Carey wrote: | | Estonianzulu wrote: | | fatpig wrote: |
i had fun watching those games, did you? or would you rather have watched the team suck for those games |
I'll preface this by saying I always root for the Browns to win, always.
How many wins from last season would you trade for Andrew Luck? |
I can be honest... All of them. |
Same.
Likewise, do you think Colts fan regret having an abysmal 1997 season, or do you think they wish they had gone 6-10 instead, missing out on Peyton Manning?
I think they'd trade the losses that season for the dozens that Manning gave them, along with a Super Bowl.
With that said, I am tired of losing. If we can turn things around and put wins up there with players that can build around, and start turning the losing culture around, I'm all for it. This city needs something to get excited about. And I don't mean the excitement of yet another top 5 draft pick. |
tbh though it's kind of cherry picking. You think the Rams wouldn't have liked an extra win, lost out on Bradford and landed Suh? Maybe maybe not. Raiders miss out on Russel with an extra win or 2?
I don't see anyone anywhere near the prospect level of Luck or Manning. Just saying. Look at guys like Eli Manning and Alex Smith. Both are having successful careers right now, but had we landed them we probably would have had them both run out of town due to their average beginnings. I'd rather we just focus on winning because I'm suck of rooting for a complete embarrassment of a football team. If we end up with the 4th overall pick and we can't land an impact player, that's just sad.
I know both of you said you will always root for us to win, and I totally agree, but I would rather us win a few games and not worry about whether or not we have the #1 pick, than secretly hope we lose so we can get it. If Luck or Manning were in this draft, I would probably have a different opinion. I don't think any of the current QB prospects are on that level. I'm not even as impressed with any of them as RG3.
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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 25352
Location: Middle of Nowhere VA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| bungleodeon wrote: | | I'm not even as impressed with any of them as RG3. |
What has Geno Smith not done that RG3 did?
Heck, Geno Smith has played in multiple offenses and learned different play books.
And for what its worth, I dont secretly root for us to lose, I always want us to win, even when it is detrimental. However, I don't see a reason to fire Shurmur mid-season and replace him with a guy who won't be our long term answer at HC |
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