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How much of our self-destruction is on...
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How much of our self-destruction is on...
Poor coaching and game-planning?
28%
 28%  [ 8 ]
Poor playing by the players?
42%
 42%  [ 12 ]
Shurmur's play-calling?
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Weeden's mistakes?
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Something else?
21%
 21%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 28

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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 20060
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I sick of losing? Of course.

Doesnt mean we don't have legit reasons to be optimistic.
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 8290
Location: Cleveland area
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's on a lot of factors.

For one, we simply arent as good as other teams as far as personel. Talent only gets you so far. A team full of rookies and 2nd year players generally doesn't win, especially in the ultimate team sport of football.

Yes our coach sucks also.

I really don't see the point in picking out the main reason we are losing, because even if we fix that main reason, we will still keep losing. We have more than one problem.
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TeHDruiD


Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 6921
Location: Canton, OH
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all on the youth of this team. We're going to see ups and downs with young players. Shurmur did everything in his power to put his players in a position to win. I seen him run some plays yesterday that I haven't ever seen before, he opened the playbook up and they were working. Unfortunately as the game wore on it seemed like Eli sucked the will out of both units, he does it to everyone.

We get Haden back next week, we can start to play team defense again instead of having to mix and match coverages to try to cover up everyones flaws.

I will say however, our OL looked very good. You have to be happy after watching them stone wall that DL all game long. Players were getting open, we were opening running lanes and we were executing. Why the execution went down the toilet after we went up 17-7 is beyond me, but it's not Shurmurs fault on this one

In the end? It comes down to not turning the ball over, plain and simple. Weedens INT and Cribbs fumble put us in the hole we were in. We're not a good enough team to overcome turnovers yet. Also I'd like to see us run the ball a little bit more, but you can't fault Shurmur for trying to build the lead, especially against a depleted secondary that allowed receivers to get open continuously
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LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 7900
Location: CINCINNATI
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
bruceb wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
its not like today we were missing at some point (or all points):

Chris Gocong
Joe Haden
Dimitri Patterson
Phil Taylor
Ahtyba Rubin
D'Qwell Jackson

no wonder why our D sucked


Our O didn't do a lot to help the D today, either


Right, bc putting 14 on the board in the first 5 min of the game and putting the giants offense on their toes was no favor.

Your blind pessimism is absurd.


Yep.
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LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 7900
Location: CINCINNATI
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
its not like today we were missing at some point (or all points):

Chris Gocong
Joe Haden
Dimitri Patterson
Phil Taylor
Ahtyba Rubin
D'Qwell Jackson

no wonder why our D sucked


Yep.

Not to mention, our defense would be only average WITH all of these guys.

Heckert spent a wad of picks on offense last year and, if given the chance, I'm fairly certain he'll do something similar over the next couple of April's for our defense.

If we're patient enough to allow our young offense to mature while adding talent to the defense, we'll be ok.

This defense is lacking a lot of talent, but there are also a number of nice pieces to build around.
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DawgSoldier


Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947
Location: Medina OH
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe we should rehire Mangini in some compassity. He certainly cut way down on penalties and he prepared his players. His halftime adjustments sucked though
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The OUTLAW


Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 8425
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Turnovers, time of possession and penalties. You can't turn the ball over in the opponents redzone, or give it up inside your own 20. We did that 3 times today.

We can't expect our defense to play well if they are spending 60% of the game on the field. The penalties hurt us a couple times. The phantom P.I. call. The moronic offside on the punt play.

Honestly, the play calling didn't bother me much today. I don't think it was the reason Weeden's first pick was about a foot too high. It wasn't the reason Cribbs fumbled.


Sure turnovers are a killer, but you can't defend the defense when the vast majority of the reason that they were on the field so much is because they couldn't make a play to get off the field. Sure fewer 3 and outs help, but it's not the only reason they stayed on the field. They tackled like poo and they gave up way too much yardage running the ball.
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MSURacerDT55


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 4250
Location: 8 mile by way of St. Clair E.99
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally think the playcalling has been improved, as a coach myself, I can see the concepts of what they are trying to get accomplished.

P.S Greg Little needs to learn how to play special teams and start from scratch,we put too much on his plate too early
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dawgdish


Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 2342
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our defense has been pretty good all year, but in terms of the Giants game, our self destruction was on them. Eli was playing pitch & catch all day with almost no pressure to speak of and Bradshaw looked like the second coming of Tiki Barber. Even with their mistakes, I think the offense did enough to win the game if the D played even a semblance of the way they played the previous 2 weeks. We just can't seem to put it together as a team at the right time this year. Some of that is on the coaching and some of that is on our inexperience and youth. The way the roster stands, we need to play perfect in all phases to win, and at various times, all 3 phases have let us down. At least we're much more exciting tow watch than at any time in the last 5 years.
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shoffma1999


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 2833
Location: Perrysburg, Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
I should have put an "All of the above, and then some?' choice


This! This team is just painful to watch. Even when we do some good things, you know it is only a matter of time before the massive implosion.
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roger murdock


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 6135
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgSoldier wrote:
maybe we should rehire Mangini in some compassity. He certainly cut way down on penalties and he prepared his players. His halftime adjustments sucked though


The only thing Mancini did to cut down penalties was field the oldest team in the AFC.
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roger murdock


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 6135
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgSoldier wrote:
maybe we should rehire Mangini in some compassity. He certainly cut way down on penalties and he prepared his players. His halftime adjustments sucked though


The only thing Mancini did to cut down penalties was field the oldest team in the AFC.
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freakygeniuskid


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Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 5325
Location: Charlotte, NC
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now, I'm tentatively aboard the "Fire Shurmur" bandwagon. The play calling hasn't been terrible, and he is dealing with a D that has been plagued by injuries, but the play calling hasn't been great either, the clock management hasn't been good and outside of a few guys is seems like the young guys haven't been developed particularly well.

I'm not raving and calling for his head, but if there's a really good WCO/4-3 D candidate available this spring with experience, a good reputation, and a relationship with Banner/Heckert, I would be absolutely all right with that.
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NickZambo


Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 1540
Location: Pittsburgh Browns Backin'
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
bruceb wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
its not like today we were missing at some point (or all points):

Chris Gocong
Joe Haden
Dimitri Patterson
Phil Taylor
Ahtyba Rubin
D'Qwell Jackson

no wonder why our D sucked


Our O didn't do a lot to help the D today, either


Right, bc putting 14 on the board in the first 5 min of the game and putting the giants offense on their toes was no favor.

Your blind pessimism is absurd
.


+100000000000000

This guy has to be related to the Bostonian.
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fatpig


Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 2252
Location: cleveland
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not sure which thread this fits best and i didn't want to start another "blame this guy for us being terrible" thread.

but Buster Skrine has been straight up awful so far. he's fast and doesn't allow his receiver to run past him but that's about it. he is too small to play the ball in the air and too small/light to tackle. CB has to be a high priority this off season.
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