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Desperado82


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Is there a BPA strategy that takes areas of need into account? Is that called something?


The draft should always consist of need meets value meets opportunity, but you also want to take the best player available regardless of position to ensure that you don't leave a more talented player on the board for someone else to take. If the BPA does not fit a need, then the value and opportunity you create is by trading down and then selecting someone else.

Taking BPA ensures competition. What Dallas has done this year, which I feel is a great strategy is to fill needs via FA so they can take BPA. Don't be shocked to see us look into FA to fill all of our needs.


I have a feeling Connor Barwin will hit free agency after the year...if he does, and we do not re-sign Spencer...I'd like to see us bring him in.

It would allow us to address the OL and DL in the first two rounds and then draft BPA the rest of the draft.

Where do you feel we need to address DL at? I feel we are good there. I would be happy for us to go BPA through out.


I'd like to see some more depth there. I'm still not comfortable in saying Brent is the future at NT just yet. Obviously, things could change as the season goes on.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see many if any high quality guards that will be available via free agency. There seems to be a few tackles, though. Should we look signing a tackle, and moving Free to guard, if there are no premiere G or C available?
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
I don't see many if any high quality guards that will be available via free agency. There seems to be a few tackles, though. Should we look signing a tackle, and moving Free to guard, if there are no premiere G or C available?


I'd rather see us go into the draft and make the OL a priority. I don't think Free has been that bad to say we need to replace, I think the guy to his left is more of a problem.
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Calvert28


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
No, No, No, No, Nooooooooo! You guys are going with this BPA crap again! Look no further than last year. Claiborne was the BPA and we traded a valuable 2nd round pick away to get the BPA after signing Carr to 50 million. Here we are 4 weeks into the season at 2-2 and the BPA hasn't done a gosh darn thing to warrant that 2nd round pick. That's 2 picks that could have solidified our O line or D line or helped both for 1 player that hasn't proven his worth for 2 picks yet!
And what are you saying? Let's get another LB because he is the BPA!?
Do the words: "When you have too much at one position,you got nothing." Ring a bell?
Stop it with FRICKIN LB's already! We need O line help now! We need D line help now!
Maybe Claiborne and Bryant would live up to thier billing if they had hel from up front!
STOP IT WITH THE LB'S!


So...we should not draft BPA?
Also - do you expect rookies to make immediate and game changing impacts or do you expect them to have to develop?



No! Not if you drafted 2 at that position last year and you already have a plethora of starting LB's! What if a CB is the BPA next year when we are up? Would you take him? Great you keep rotating those positions while Romo keeps running for his life and opposing QB's keep having a soft pocket to step up into. Go ahead, drinmk the Jerry Juice and draft another Freakin LB! Good luck keeping your QB upright.!


It depends on what they do with Spencer. If they re-sign him, than yes...we obviously shouldn't draft an OLB in the 1st. If they don't, and don't bring in someone through free agency...OLB would become a 1st round need. Victor Butler hasn't shown he can be a dependable starter and is a pass rush specialist. Wilber is an unknown. As we've seen time and time again, Ware can't do it all by himself.

Taking an OLB in the 1st also would not prevent us from drafting an offensive lineman in the 2nd round.


I dont agree with this idea one bit. Romo always takes priority over every position on the team. Protecting him is chief among the priorities. Having no threat opposite Ware pales in comparison to losing Romo. So LB should not take priority over Romo's safety.

Said this last page, and RTlndave is just echoing.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calvert28 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
No, No, No, No, Nooooooooo! You guys are going with this BPA crap again! Look no further than last year. Claiborne was the BPA and we traded a valuable 2nd round pick away to get the BPA after signing Carr to 50 million. Here we are 4 weeks into the season at 2-2 and the BPA hasn't done a gosh darn thing to warrant that 2nd round pick. That's 2 picks that could have solidified our O line or D line or helped both for 1 player that hasn't proven his worth for 2 picks yet!
And what are you saying? Let's get another LB because he is the BPA!?
Do the words: "When you have too much at one position,you got nothing." Ring a bell?
Stop it with FRICKIN LB's already! We need O line help now! We need D line help now!
Maybe Claiborne and Bryant would live up to thier billing if they had hel from up front!
STOP IT WITH THE LB'S!


So...we should not draft BPA?
Also - do you expect rookies to make immediate and game changing impacts or do you expect them to have to develop?



No! Not if you drafted 2 at that position last year and you already have a plethora of starting LB's! What if a CB is the BPA next year when we are up? Would you take him? Great you keep rotating those positions while Romo keeps running for his life and opposing QB's keep having a soft pocket to step up into. Go ahead, drinmk the Jerry Juice and draft another Freakin LB! Good luck keeping your QB upright.!


It depends on what they do with Spencer. If they re-sign him, than yes...we obviously shouldn't draft an OLB in the 1st. If they don't, and don't bring in someone through free agency...OLB would become a 1st round need. Victor Butler hasn't shown he can be a dependable starter and is a pass rush specialist. Wilber is an unknown. As we've seen time and time again, Ware can't do it all by himself.

Taking an OLB in the 1st also would not prevent us from drafting an offensive lineman in the 2nd round.


I dont agree with this idea one bit. Romo always takes priority over every position on the team. Protecting him is chief among the priorities. Having no threat opposite Ware pales in comparison to losing Romo. So LB should not take priority over Romo's safety.

Said this last page, and RTlndave is just echoing.

You can take that either way, having a better defense will protect Romo as well because he will not be force to throw as much as we will be in more situations to run the ball.
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Calvert28


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
Calvert28 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
No, No, No, No, Nooooooooo! You guys are going with this BPA crap again! Look no further than last year. Claiborne was the BPA and we traded a valuable 2nd round pick away to get the BPA after signing Carr to 50 million. Here we are 4 weeks into the season at 2-2 and the BPA hasn't done a gosh darn thing to warrant that 2nd round pick. That's 2 picks that could have solidified our O line or D line or helped both for 1 player that hasn't proven his worth for 2 picks yet!
And what are you saying? Let's get another LB because he is the BPA!?
Do the words: "When you have too much at one position,you got nothing." Ring a bell?
Stop it with FRICKIN LB's already! We need O line help now! We need D line help now!
Maybe Claiborne and Bryant would live up to thier billing if they had hel from up front!
STOP IT WITH THE LB'S!


So...we should not draft BPA?
Also - do you expect rookies to make immediate and game changing impacts or do you expect them to have to develop?



No! Not if you drafted 2 at that position last year and you already have a plethora of starting LB's! What if a CB is the BPA next year when we are up? Would you take him? Great you keep rotating those positions while Romo keeps running for his life and opposing QB's keep having a soft pocket to step up into. Go ahead, drinmk the Jerry Juice and draft another Freakin LB! Good luck keeping your QB upright.!


It depends on what they do with Spencer. If they re-sign him, than yes...we obviously shouldn't draft an OLB in the 1st. If they don't, and don't bring in someone through free agency...OLB would become a 1st round need. Victor Butler hasn't shown he can be a dependable starter and is a pass rush specialist. Wilber is an unknown. As we've seen time and time again, Ware can't do it all by himself.

Taking an OLB in the 1st also would not prevent us from drafting an offensive lineman in the 2nd round.


I dont agree with this idea one bit. Romo always takes priority over every position on the team. Protecting him is chief among the priorities. Having no threat opposite Ware pales in comparison to losing Romo. So LB should not take priority over Romo's safety.

Said this last page, and RTlndave is just echoing.

You can take that either way, having a better defense will protect Romo as well because he will not be force to throw as much as we will be in more situations to run the ball.


QB's are going to throw an average of 35 times a game regardless of how well the defense does. Teams aren't supposed to let up until they are up by 21 and it's the 4th quarter. So even if the best circumstances happened every game in which we are well on our way to going 16-0. He will still be in a ton of danger 45 minutes at minimum every game.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calvert28 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Calvert28 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
No, No, No, No, Nooooooooo! You guys are going with this BPA crap again! Look no further than last year. Claiborne was the BPA and we traded a valuable 2nd round pick away to get the BPA after signing Carr to 50 million. Here we are 4 weeks into the season at 2-2 and the BPA hasn't done a gosh darn thing to warrant that 2nd round pick. That's 2 picks that could have solidified our O line or D line or helped both for 1 player that hasn't proven his worth for 2 picks yet!
And what are you saying? Let's get another LB because he is the BPA!?
Do the words: "When you have too much at one position,you got nothing." Ring a bell?
Stop it with FRICKIN LB's already! We need O line help now! We need D line help now!
Maybe Claiborne and Bryant would live up to thier billing if they had hel from up front!
STOP IT WITH THE LB'S!


So...we should not draft BPA?
Also - do you expect rookies to make immediate and game changing impacts or do you expect them to have to develop?



No! Not if you drafted 2 at that position last year and you already have a plethora of starting LB's! What if a CB is the BPA next year when we are up? Would you take him? Great you keep rotating those positions while Romo keeps running for his life and opposing QB's keep having a soft pocket to step up into. Go ahead, drinmk the Jerry Juice and draft another Freakin LB! Good luck keeping your QB upright.!


It depends on what they do with Spencer. If they re-sign him, than yes...we obviously shouldn't draft an OLB in the 1st. If they don't, and don't bring in someone through free agency...OLB would become a 1st round need. Victor Butler hasn't shown he can be a dependable starter and is a pass rush specialist. Wilber is an unknown. As we've seen time and time again, Ware can't do it all by himself.

Taking an OLB in the 1st also would not prevent us from drafting an offensive lineman in the 2nd round.


I dont agree with this idea one bit. Romo always takes priority over every position on the team. Protecting him is chief among the priorities. Having no threat opposite Ware pales in comparison to losing Romo. So LB should not take priority over Romo's safety.

Said this last page, and RTlndave is just echoing.

You can take that either way, having a better defense will protect Romo as well because he will not be force to throw as much as we will be in more situations to run the ball.


QB's are going to throw an average of 35 times a game regardless of how well the defense does. Teams aren't supposed to let up until they are up by 21 and it's the 4th quarter. So even if the best circumstances happened every game in which we are well on our way to going 16-0. He will still be in a ton of danger 45 minutes at minimum every game.

Find out the average throwing attempts per QB playing with a top 5 defense in ppg in a full season.
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Calvert28


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Big Ben wasn't as big and as sturdy as he is, he would have already gone the way of Aikman, Namath and many other injury riddled QB's
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Calvert. OL has got to be the focus of the draft this year, and we can fix everything else through FA, and later on in the draft. I do think that BPA is a great way to go, but there needs to be some need factored in as well
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
I'm with Calvert. OL has got to be the focus of the draft this year, and we can fix everything else through FA, and later on in the draft. I do think that BPA is a great way to go, but there needs to be some need factored in as well

I don't disagree that we need to improve our offensive line, but I don't believe a team should ever stray away from the drafting logic of BPA. That is how NFL teams improve themselves through talent, and there is a saying you can always find a spot on the field for talent. We have young players on this squad which are unknown, they might be great; they might not. When I believe in BPA, I believe you should use that for the 1st rounder and then after that you draft on needs unless there is a circumstance to which a player is rated so high in the 2nd round pick that you must select him there etc.
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
I'm with Calvert. OL has got to be the focus of the draft this year, and we can fix everything else through FA, and later on in the draft. I do think that BPA is a great way to go, but there needs to be some need factored in as well

I don't disagree that we need to improve our offensive line, but I don't believe a team should ever stray away from the drafting logic of BPA. That is how NFL teams improve themselves through talent, and there is a saying you can always find a spot on the field for talent. We have young players on this squad which are unknown, they might be great; they might not. When I believe in BPA, I believe you should use that for the 1st rounder and then after that you draft on needs unless there is a circumstance to which a player is rated so high in the 2nd round pick that you must select him there etc.


The problem I have with BPA is something like this. Barrett Jones is on the board. However, so is Manti Te'o. I think that Te'o is the better player. But we also have Sean Lee, Bruce Carter, and Dan Connor as ILBs. So by the BPA strategy, we should grab Te'o and not look back.

Or what happens if the BPA is never a lineman? Are we content with going into the next season with the same o-line, just for the sake of going BPA?
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Calvert28


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is more then enough BPA at the OL position this year to not have to pass up on a much better BPA at another position.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
I'm with Calvert. OL has got to be the focus of the draft this year, and we can fix everything else through FA, and later on in the draft. I do think that BPA is a great way to go, but there needs to be some need factored in as well

I don't disagree that we need to improve our offensive line, but I don't believe a team should ever stray away from the drafting logic of BPA. That is how NFL teams improve themselves through talent, and there is a saying you can always find a spot on the field for talent. We have young players on this squad which are unknown, they might be great; they might not. When I believe in BPA, I believe you should use that for the 1st rounder and then after that you draft on needs unless there is a circumstance to which a player is rated so high in the 2nd round pick that you must select him there etc.


The problem I have with BPA is something like this. Barrett Jones is on the board. However, so is Manti Te'o. I think that Te'o is the better player. But we also have Sean Lee, Bruce Carter, and Dan Connor as ILBs. So by the BPA strategy, we should grab Te'o and not look back.

Or what happens if the BPA is never a lineman? Are we content with going into the next season with the same o-line, just for the sake of going BPA?

I would disagree that Te'o is the better prospect, when forming a big board one should not take into consideration draft value, they should take into consideration the talent of the player. Once you evaluate a player you get an overall grade on a player which is not subjective on value of the position but is an accumulative grade on their skill set.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/scouting_department.html

if you look at their big board you will see in BPA David DeCastro is the 3rd best prospect in last years draft on a talent pov. But in the draft many factors are taken into from GM's and Coaches to value a position and when to select a player. So lets say we stayed pat in the draft last year and didn't move up to get Morris Claiborne. We also feel pretty confident going into the draft what we have at OL because of the free agent pick ups so we are feeling our team needs would go in this order: DL, DB, Interior OL, OLB. Well with the BPA this is what we would get.

Code:
1. Colts - Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford
2. Redskins - Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor
3. Browns - Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama
4. Vikings - Matt Kalil, OT, USC
5. Jaguars - Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma St.
6. St. Louis - Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU
7. Buccaneers - Mark Barron, SS, Alabama
8. Dolphins - Ryan Tannehill, QB, TAMU
9. Panthers - Luke Kuechly, LB, Boston College
10. Bills - Stephon Gilmore, CB, South Carolina
11. Chiefs - Donatri Poe, DT, Memphis
12. Eagles - Fletcher Cox, DT, Mississippi St.
13. Cardinals - Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame
14. Cowboys - David DeCastro, OG, Stanford


Also, in BPA you also have to take into account who you have on your team of course lets say you drafted a OG earlier in the previous year and you are pretty confident with the youth you have under the draft. You then go to the next available player on your big board which would then be Michael Brockers. So you do have wiggle room with the philosophy of BPA, it just isn't a bold even if you are stacked at the position you take that player.

Brett Favre was 34 when Aaron Rodgers was drafted with the philosophy of BPA, but if Favre was say 5-6 years younger he would have not been taken because they are set at the position for years to come with star quality talent. Since he was aging and by the time Favre should have been done Rodgers would have sat and learned everything he would need to they took him to groom, but to also challenge Favre to be better. A Cowboys example would have been drafting Bruce Carter when we had very good talent at ILB with Bradie James and Sean Lee.

I hope this was not completely confusing because I tried to say it as easy as I could by giving examples, if you don't understand what I am saying just ask questions I will answer, but I am looking forward to responses after this.
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So BPA is not exactly "Best Player Available"? It seems like BPA really means, the "Best Player Available that suits your particular needs and scheme". If that is the case, then yeah, I completely agree with that. And yeah, I think Jones is better than Te'o as well, but just using that as an example. So would the Cowboys leave, lets say Te'o, Ogletree, Eifert, Lattimore, and other guys like that off their big board entirely? Or would they move them down? Or would they potentially ignore their big board for a second to get the player that would benefit the team more?
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
So BPA is not exactly "Best Player Available"? It seems like BPA really means, the "Best Player Available that suits your particular needs and scheme". If that is the case, then yeah, I completely agree with that. And yeah, I think Jones is better than Te'o as well, but just using that as an example. So would the Cowboys leave, lets say Te'o, Ogletree, Eifert, Lattimore, and other guys like that off their big board entirely? Or would they move them down? Or would they potentially ignore their big board for a second to get the player that would benefit the team more?

They would leave them on their board as a talent stand point, if a player would become an immediate starter for them they would take them, say like Marcus Lattimore, but more than likely they would just have a conversation about them on draft day but look to get another player.
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