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SHOULD The Melvin Ingram Play Stand?(Poll: Prosposed Change)
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SHOULD This Rule be Changed?

Yes

33%

[ 10 ]

66%

[ 20 ]

Total Votes : 30

Author

Message

JammerHammer21

Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18053
Location: Anywhere

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:33 am Post subject:

bucsfan333 wrote:

JammerHammer21 wrote:

bucsfan333 wrote:

jsnydes wrote:

Too much discretion to the refs if you change it. When did the hit occur? Before or after the ball was gone. They already have a hard enough time with calls like PI.

Do you only throw a flag if the ball isn't caught?

The flag could still be thrown. However, if it is a pick, there's no good reason for there to be no interception.

Except that the penalty negates the play.

Why should it? Ingram's action did not cause Brees to throw a pick and Ingram's action did not change the fact that it was a pick.
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Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote:

Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time.

Sciz

Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 12833
Location: Iowa

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:33 am Post subject:

JammerHammer21 wrote:

Sciz wrote:

How would you do the yardage? I can't think of any way of doing it that follows any precedent set by other penalties.

Penalty from spot of pick perhaps. That's the trickiest part, because you couldn't do from where the QB was hit.

Yeah, that's the one that makes the least amount of not-sense, but it still goes completely against the precedent set by roughing the kicker on a punt.
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Shut up, NBT

Duffman57

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 6931

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:33 am Post subject:

bucsfan333 wrote:

JammerHammer21 wrote:

bucsfan333 wrote:

jsnydes wrote:

Too much discretion to the refs if you change it. When did the hit occur? Before or after the ball was gone. They already have a hard enough time with calls like PI.

Do you only throw a flag if the ball isn't caught?

The flag could still be thrown. However, if it is a pick, there's no good reason for there to be no interception.

Except that the penalty negates the play.

BUT IT DOESN'T. They tack the roughing the passer yards onto a completed pass, so you're argument is wrong....
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Kiltman on the Sig

MrDrew wrote:

Everything about Rivers looks awkward, reminiscent of a giraffe with down syndrome.

Harper41

Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 11730

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:34 am Post subject:

Now what if Brees was hit during his throw. Now it's up to the ref to decide if its SD ball or New Orleans ball? No. The rules fine the way it is.
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Duffman57

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 6931

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:35 am Post subject:

Harper41 wrote:

Now what if Brees was hit during his throw. Now it's up to the ref to decide if its SD ball or New Orleans ball? No. The rules fine the way it is.

Then that isn't roughing the passer, thats just a personal foul for helmet to helmet contact...
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Kiltman on the Sig

MrDrew wrote:

Everything about Rivers looks awkward, reminiscent of a giraffe with down syndrome.

bucsfan333

Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 21915
Location: Kempes on the sig

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:41 am Post subject:

Duffman57 wrote:

bucsfan333 wrote:

JammerHammer21 wrote:

bucsfan333 wrote:

jsnydes wrote:

Too much discretion to the refs if you change it. When did the hit occur? Before or after the ball was gone. They already have a hard enough time with calls like PI.

Do you only throw a flag if the ball isn't caught?

The flag could still be thrown. However, if it is a pick, there's no good reason for there to be no interception.

Except that the penalty negates the play.

BUT IT DOESN'T. They tack the roughing the passer yards onto a completed pass, so you're argument is wrong....

So they should award the defense despite the illegal play?
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JammerHammer21

Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18053
Location: Anywhere

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:43 am Post subject:

bucsfan333 wrote:

Duffman57 wrote:

bucsfan333 wrote:

JammerHammer21 wrote:

bucsfan333 wrote:

jsnydes wrote:

Too much discretion to the refs if you change it. When did the hit occur? Before or after the ball was gone. They already have a hard enough time with calls like PI.

Do you only throw a flag if the ball isn't caught?

The flag could still be thrown. However, if it is a pick, there's no good reason for there to be no interception.

Except that the penalty negates the play.

BUT IT DOESN'T. They tack the roughing the passer yards onto a completed pass, so you're argument is wrong....

So they should award the defense despite the illegal play?

The illegal play happened after the throw happened. Ingram did not hit him before the ball was released.
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Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote:

Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time.

eagles101

Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 5940

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:45 am Post subject:

yes let the pick stand...and if there is a holding on the offense but that guy wouldnt get the tackle take it back. or take out roughing the kicker because it doesnt effect the kick.
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JamesBlood

Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 32

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:01 am Post subject:

I think you're missing the issue here. If the ball is already out, the hit doesn't affect the play anymore, why make it? I have no sympathy for players that are needlessly violent, and they deserve to have that play negated. If you don't like it, don't make that hit.

JammerHammer21

Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18053
Location: Anywhere

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:03 am Post subject:

JamesBlood wrote:

He wasn't needlessly being violent, I don't even think he actually hit Brees. He was charging full speed regardless. It was like Brees threw it and Ingram came charging in 4 seconds later, it was Brees throws and a second later, Ingram hits him.
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Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote:

Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time.

Jakuvious

Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 4557

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:07 am Post subject:

JammerHammer21 wrote:

Why should it? Ingram's action did not cause Brees to throw a pick and Ingram's action did not change the fact that it was a pick.

Effect on the play has absolutely nothing to do with how penalties are called or rules. A hold on the opposite side of the field of a 95 yard run is no different to the refs than what that occurs right in front of the RB. On DPI, they don't stop and think, well, that was a 4th string WR, so he probably wouldn't have caught in anyway.

Plus, it's a personal foul. Basically no personal fouls effect the actual play. That doesn't mean you should make it easier on the team committing it. They screwed up, they should have to deal with that fact.
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Jakuvious

Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 4557

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:09 am Post subject:

JammerHammer21 wrote:

The illegal play happened after the throw happened. Ingram did not hit him before the ball was released.

Why does the ball getting thrown matter? If you stop the play right at the penalty, who had legal possession of the ball? It wasn't San Diego.
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Bohlmann20

Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 5138

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:13 am Post subject:

JammerHammer21 wrote:

The illegal play happened after the throw happened. Ingram did not hit him before the ball was released.

Soooo what's your stance on the question?

Duffman57

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 6931

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:18 am Post subject:

Jakuvious wrote:

JammerHammer21 wrote:

The illegal play happened after the throw happened. Ingram did not hit him before the ball was released.

Why does the ball getting thrown matter? If you stop the play right at the penalty, who had legal possession of the ball? It wasn't San Diego.

And it wasn't New Orleans. Once the ball is out of someone's hand, its nobody's ball, so if a foul happens during a fumble, should the ball just go back to the offense?
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Kiltman on the Sig

MrDrew wrote:

Everything about Rivers looks awkward, reminiscent of a giraffe with down syndrome.

JamesBlood

Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 32

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:18 am Post subject:

JammerHammer21 wrote:

JamesBlood wrote:

The play itself is irrelevant to the question, I'm not arguing about that. You said yourself you don't consider it a penalty. I'm just saying that a rule that, when broken, provides no tactical advantage and is only there for player safety can and should penalize the team harshly.

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