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Is Rivera in your dog house yet?
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 29850
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moody wrote:
but they only lost by four! We'll get them next time!!!


I see what you are saying now.

We should fire the whole staff and hire a new one. And if they dont pan out in a year, fire them too.

Continuity is overrated. The players dont need it. They can just pick up a new game plan every season.

Come on, man. How many times have you watched bad teams play musical chairs with their staff positions? When does it ever work? This is how it works when you have a 1 win season. You bring a guy in to interview. You listen to his plan. If you like it, you hire him. And then you give him time to implement his plan. Give him time to aquire players. Give him time to install his system. You give him time to change the culture.

I dont agree with the calls. I dont like losing. But you have to be patient. And, if anyone was wondering, I was one of the biggest "fire Fox" guys around. So its not like I cant let go or dont like change. I am just saying any change at this point is wildly premature.
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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fraziafraze07 wrote:
He wasn't. Now he is.

Unacceptable. Lineup and execute a simple QB sneak. Show the other team that on that particular play, you're better than them and you're going to lineup, do exactly what they think you're going to do, and then do it.

Absolutely no reason or need to get cute and try to catch them off guard.


While I agree that the goal line play calling there sucked, Cam had a player 8 yards in front of him wide open. And he threw it in the dirt. Thats an issue of execution. Not planning. 90% of the QBs in the league make that pass 100% of the time.
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fraziafraze07


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
fraziafraze07 wrote:
He wasn't. Now he is.

Unacceptable. Lineup and execute a simple QB sneak. Show the other team that on that particular play, you're better than them and you're going to lineup, do exactly what they think you're going to do, and then do it.

Absolutely no reason or need to get cute and try to catch them off guard.


While I agree that the goal line play calling there sucked, Cam had a player 8 yards in front of him wide open. And he threw it in the dirt. Thats an issue of execution. Not planning.


Oh. Cam's completely at fault. But a coach's job is to put the players in the best situation to succeed. And they have a 250 lb bulldozer who happens to be the best goal line runner in the NFL at their disposal. The scenario with the highest likelihood of success in the QB sneak. It's just gut wrenching to see them over think this stuff.

IMO, this was a worse call than Rivera choosing not to go for it on 4th last week. In both cases, the players didn't execute, but I think the choice to sneak it on this play is more obvious than the choice to not punt it was last week.

And for the record, I don't think the coaches should be fired; agree 100% about continuity. But that doesn't mean they can't be in my doghouse.
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iknowcool


Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that I'm the biggest fan of Rivera to this point but I wager the playcall was more on Chud. We still should have went for the QB Draw IMO but the execution failed us there, not the playcall necessarily.

Either way though, it doesn't really have to do with the losses to me. Just the poor time management, poor halftime adjusting, etc. No team has lost more games when leading after halftime than us since Rivera became HC. Rivera wasn't handed the best team and I'm not saying fire him but I'm not getting the feeling he's a natural fit at HC. Reminds me of Norv Turner.
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Moody


Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I see what you are saying now.

We should fire the whole staff and hire a new one. And if they dont pan out in a year, fire them too.

Continuity is overrated. The players dont need it. They can just pick up a new game plan every season.

Come on, man. How many times have you watched bad teams play musical chairs with their staff positions? When does it ever work? This is how it works when you have a 1 win season. You bring a guy in to interview. You listen to his plan. If you like it, you hire him. And then you give him time to implement his plan. Give him time to aquire players. Give him time to install his system. You give him time to change the culture.

I dont agree with the calls. I dont like losing. But you have to be patient. And, if anyone was wondering, I was one of the biggest "fire Fox" guys around. So its not like I cant let go or dont like change. I am just saying any change at this point is wildly premature.



None of this post changes the fact that his wildly inconsistent team is really only consistent at coming up short. But that's how the league works. The good teams pull out close games. He's in his second year and the team is playing worse than this time last year. It's year two. There are no more excuses for installing his system.

Use your eyes not your heart. His team has looked asleep every other week so far. I don't need to cite a single play, they looked like crap the entire game.

I question how much control he has over this team.
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boondock


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we use the sophomore slump argument with Rivera?
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iknowcool


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boondock wrote:
Can we use the sophomore slump argument with Rivera?


He was never really good as a freshman. Time management and lack of adjustments plagued him last year as well.
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boondock


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowcool wrote:
boondock wrote:
Can we use the sophomore slump argument with Rivera?


He was never really good as a freshman. Time management and lack of adjustments plagued him last year as well.


True, but he had the team going in the right direction. This year we have no identity, playing calling is now questionable, and the fire is gone.
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moody wrote:
Quote:
I see what you are saying now.

We should fire the whole staff and hire a new one. And if they dont pan out in a year, fire them too.

Continuity is overrated. The players dont need it. They can just pick up a new game plan every season.

Come on, man. How many times have you watched bad teams play musical chairs with their staff positions? When does it ever work? This is how it works when you have a 1 win season. You bring a guy in to interview. You listen to his plan. If you like it, you hire him. And then you give him time to implement his plan. Give him time to aquire players. Give him time to install his system. You give him time to change the culture.

I dont agree with the calls. I dont like losing. But you have to be patient. And, if anyone was wondering, I was one of the biggest "fire Fox" guys around. So its not like I cant let go or dont like change. I am just saying any change at this point is wildly premature.



None of this post changes the fact that his wildly inconsistent team is really only consistent at coming up short. But that's how the league works. The good teams pull out close games. He's in his second year and the team is playing worse than this time last year. It's year two. There are no more excuses for installing his system.

Use your eyes not your heart. His team has looked asleep every other week so far. I don't need to cite a single play, they looked like crap the entire game.

I question how much control he has over this team.


My heart? Are you kidding me? How about you use your head, not your heart? We arent winning and you are jumping the gun because of it.

Again, you couldnt find a more adamant fan when it came to wanting Fox gone. I am using my eyes. And what I am saying is you are jumping the gun. It's too soon. Give it time. You cant expect this team to ever be succesful if you change coaches like you change underwear.

We were a 1 win team. It's going to take time. You may question some of the calls. But you should be questioning the execution more. Chud and Rivera have been hit and miss. But more hits than misses. Chud and Rivera didnt fumble when converting a 3rd down that could have sealed the game. Chud and Rivera didnt throw the ball in the dirt when a guy was wide open 12 feet away. Chud and Rivera didnt backpedal 15 yards to try and stop a rainbow thrown from the end zone.
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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boondock wrote:
iknowcool wrote:
boondock wrote:
Can we use the sophomore slump argument with Rivera?


He was never really good as a freshman. Time management and lack of adjustments plagued him last year as well.


True, but he had the team going in the right direction. This year we have no identity, playing calling is now questionable, and the fire is gone.


I see a ton more fire and grit in our defense this year compared to last. Theyre fired up.
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Moody


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Moody wrote:
Quote:
I see what you are saying now.

We should fire the whole staff and hire a new one. And if they dont pan out in a year, fire them too.

Continuity is overrated. The players dont need it. They can just pick up a new game plan every season.

Come on, man. How many times have you watched bad teams play musical chairs with their staff positions? When does it ever work? This is how it works when you have a 1 win season. You bring a guy in to interview. You listen to his plan. If you like it, you hire him. And then you give him time to implement his plan. Give him time to aquire players. Give him time to install his system. You give him time to change the culture.

I dont agree with the calls. I dont like losing. But you have to be patient. And, if anyone was wondering, I was one of the biggest "fire Fox" guys around. So its not like I cant let go or dont like change. I am just saying any change at this point is wildly premature.



None of this post changes the fact that his wildly inconsistent team is really only consistent at coming up short. But that's how the league works. The good teams pull out close games. He's in his second year and the team is playing worse than this time last year. It's year two. There are no more excuses for installing his system.

Use your eyes not your heart. His team has looked asleep every other week so far. I don't need to cite a single play, they looked like crap the entire game.

I question how much control he has over this team.


My heart? Are you kidding me? How about you use your head, not your heart? We arent winning and you are jumping the gun because of it.

Again, you couldnt find a more adamant fan when it came to wanting Fox gone. I am using my eyes. And what I am saying is you are jumping the gun. It's too soon. Give it time. You cant expect this team to ever be succesful if you change coaches like you change underwear.

We were a 1 win team. It's going to take time. You may question some of the calls. But you should be questioning the execution more. Chud and Rivera have been hit and miss. But more hits than misses. Chud and Rivera didnt fumble when converting a 3rd down that could have sealed the game. Chud and Rivera didnt throw the ball in the dirt when a guy was wide open 12 feet away. Chud and Rivera didnt backpedal 15 yards to try and stop a rainbow thrown from the end zone.



Rivera's record is 7-14. More hits than misses, huh? This past game looked just like the Bucs game. They look like sleepwalkers. They come out on the field and you can tell how a game is gonna play out based on the first five minutes. That's bad coaching. Where is the mental toughness of this team?


It doesn't matter how close they were to winning anymore. They are 1-4 and they show up every other week.

People said the Falcons game needed to be a much better performance after the Giants game. They came close but they didn't win. This game was the same. They needed to come out and respond to last week and get over it. They didn't.
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OneBadCat


Joined: 24 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's not so much game plan as it is execution. Whenever we shore up a hole another one pops up.

Last week: We get a pass rush, we convert 3rd downs, Nakamura blows the game and Cam fumbles 4th and 1

This week: Williams essentially blows the game on a fumble

One thing I do think Rivera is at fault for is the teams attitude. We don't look like winners, we have no sense of urgency or tenacity. Our team has talent but plays like losers.
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boondock


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
boondock wrote:
iknowcool wrote:
boondock wrote:
Can we use the sophomore slump argument with Rivera?


He was never really good as a freshman. Time management and lack of adjustments plagued him last year as well.


True, but he had the team going in the right direction. This year we have no identity, playing calling is now questionable, and the fire is gone.


I see a ton more fire and grit in our defense this year compared to last. Theyre fired up.


Agreed, but I'm talking from a head coaching perspective. Rivera reminds me of Fox out there after watching him the past 2-3 weeks.
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boondock


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneBadCat wrote:
I think it's not so much game plan as it is execution. Whenever we shore up a hole another one pops up.

Last week: We get a pass rush, we convert 3rd downs, Nakamura blows the game and Cam fumbles 4th and 1

This week: Williams essentially blows the game on a fumble

One thing I do think Rivera is at fault for is the teams attitude. We don't look like winners, we have no sense of urgency or tenacity. Our team has talent but plays like losers.


While Deangelo's fumble did not come at the best of times or the best of yardage situations; let's not forget that we had 4th and goal from our own 1 yard line in which we decided to pass the ball with our big time QB for him to throw at the feet of a wide open receiver.

Also, our big time QB, who has had good success at converting on short yardage situations was given the play to pass the ball. Play calling was a factor as well. You don't invest in a big time running game, especially a player like Tolbert for them to not punch it in when it counts.

It's a team effort. There was multiple chances to win the ball game by different players and coaches. Let's not forget that we completely laid an egg to start the first half either.
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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moody wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Moody wrote:
Quote:
I see what you are saying now.

We should fire the whole staff and hire a new one. And if they dont pan out in a year, fire them too.

Continuity is overrated. The players dont need it. They can just pick up a new game plan every season.

Come on, man. How many times have you watched bad teams play musical chairs with their staff positions? When does it ever work? This is how it works when you have a 1 win season. You bring a guy in to interview. You listen to his plan. If you like it, you hire him. And then you give him time to implement his plan. Give him time to aquire players. Give him time to install his system. You give him time to change the culture.

I dont agree with the calls. I dont like losing. But you have to be patient. And, if anyone was wondering, I was one of the biggest "fire Fox" guys around. So its not like I cant let go or dont like change. I am just saying any change at this point is wildly premature.



None of this post changes the fact that his wildly inconsistent team is really only consistent at coming up short. But that's how the league works. The good teams pull out close games. He's in his second year and the team is playing worse than this time last year. It's year two. There are no more excuses for installing his system.

Use your eyes not your heart. His team has looked asleep every other week so far. I don't need to cite a single play, they looked like crap the entire game.

I question how much control he has over this team.


My heart? Are you kidding me? How about you use your head, not your heart? We arent winning and you are jumping the gun because of it.

Again, you couldnt find a more adamant fan when it came to wanting Fox gone. I am using my eyes. And what I am saying is you are jumping the gun. It's too soon. Give it time. You cant expect this team to ever be succesful if you change coaches like you change underwear.

We were a 1 win team. It's going to take time. You may question some of the calls. But you should be questioning the execution more. Chud and Rivera have been hit and miss. But more hits than misses. Chud and Rivera didnt fumble when converting a 3rd down that could have sealed the game. Chud and Rivera didnt throw the ball in the dirt when a guy was wide open 12 feet away. Chud and Rivera didnt backpedal 15 yards to try and stop a rainbow thrown from the end zone.



Rivera's record is 7-14. More hits than misses, huh? This past game looked just like the Bucs game. They look like sleepwalkers. They come out on the field and you can tell how a game is gonna play out based on the first five minutes. That's bad coaching. Where is the mental toughness of this team?


It doesn't matter how close they were to winning anymore. They are 1-4 and they show up every other week.

People said the Falcons game needed to be a much better performance after the Giants game. They came close but they didn't win. This game was the same. They needed to come out and respond to last week and get over it. They didn't.


What is Cam Newtons record as a starter?

Get the point? It would be way too soon to be calling for his head based on team record. Why? Because of the team he inherited. I mean, we all see Cam screwing up, right? But we understand that patience is necessary. That rotating QBs is detrimental to the offense and to the development of the team and it's ultimate goal. That this is a process. And even though we want the team to win now, that the team just doesnt have the talent to win now.

I dont know what your expectations were going into the season. But here were mine. 6 to 9 wins. If you expected more than that you were being impossibly optimistic. Maybe that's the issue. Maybe some folks in here really were riding a bit higher off last season than they should have.

This is going to take time. And patience.
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