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Desperado82


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 26658
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
I'll ask this question again now, just as I asked it in April:

What is more important to winning a championship? Having a solid QB and an offensive line to protect him or a DB?

Des, this isn't about resources, per se. It's about common sense. But, I'll play the game and spin it into a concept of resources...

If you agree that the QB position is the most important position in any sport, then doing what it takes to protect that player is more important that ANYTHING else. Wouldn't you agree? And considering that we had just spent $50 million on one DB, it would stand to reason - given limited resources - that investing other significant resources in the protection of the team's greatest asset - it's QB - should be of higher importance at that point because we all knew how bad the offensive line was. Ignoring it and going on the cheap does nothing but place your greatest asset at a higher level of risk than necessary. Meaning, the chance for poor offensive play, turnovers, injury, and a bad running game will result; thus placing more pressure on the defense and nullifying any improvement which may have occurred because the offense doesn't let them rest or places them in bad positions due to turnovers.

Now, take the paragraph above and think about the first 4 games of our season and tell me that I'm wrong.

I'll wait.


There's no question QB is the most important position on the team, but look at it like this. The team spent the 9th overall pick on the offensive line in 2011. They then proceeded to draft Arkin in the 4th, Nagy in the 7th and signed Kowalski and Costa in free agency. That's essentially five new additions to the offensive line that they brought in that year.

Smith came on strong late last year at right tackle, Free was mediocre at left tackle hence the switch-a-roo between the two. Nagy started the season at LG but went on IR after four(?) games. Costa was less than impressive, but again, not terrible. Kowalski showed some promise at RG while filling in for Kosier and Arkin did not play a snap due to adjusting from D-II.

Given the way Nagy, Smith and Kowalski played in 2011, I'd imagine the staff felt comfortable going into training camp with them and the likes of Livings and Bernadeau competing for jobs on the interior offensive line. Last I checked, you draft players with the hopes they'll be come eventual starters. Only way that happens is if they get a chance to compete for a job. Unfortunately, Nagy and Kowalski both went down with injury which threw a wrench into the competition on the line.

When you consider the 2011 season saw three quarterbacks eclipse 5,000 passing yards, and after spending three picks of eight on the offensive line and bringing in two rookie free agents just a year ago, I can see why they (the front office) felt signing Carr and drafting Claiborne was a good idea; especially with Mike Jenkins once again suffering another injury that caused him to miss the majority of the season, Newman no longer starting quality and Scandrick a nickel corner at best. We lost quite a few games last year because Newman and the likes of Alan Ball and Frank Walker were starting and could not cover opposing receivers.
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Some Mocks from the web:

15 DALLAS COWBOYS: T.J. MCDONALD, S, USC

http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-A.php
-----------------------------------------------------------------
20. Dallas Cowboys: Jackson Jeffcoat, DE, Texas

http://newnfldraft.com/nfl-mock-draft-first-round-picks-17-24/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
21. Dallas: William Gholston, DE, Michigan St

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2013/2013-nfl-mock-draft.cfm?writer=48&page=2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
18. Dallas Cowboys - Corey Lemonier, DE/OLB, Auburn

http://www.draftking.com/mock/2013/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
15. Dallas Cowboys: Johnathan Jenkins, NT, Georgia

http://walterfootball.com/draft2013.php
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17. C Barrett Jones, Alabama

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/Mock-Drafts/2013-nfl-mock-draft.html

So. No one agrees. Laughing


1. I don't think we should pick a safety in the top 15. If we do, it shouldn't be McDonald. IF we went safety, I would prefer Reid or Vaccaro.

2. Jeffcoat isn't a 3-4 linebacker. Love him as a player, but doesn't fit our scheme. Now, if we chose to move to a 4-3, I would strongly consider this pick.

3. Ew. I think Gholston is more hype than anything. Really talented, but wouldn't touch him until the late 2nd, at the earliest.

4. I am starting to like Lemonier. Good pass rusher, and seems to be able to play SOLB in a 3-4. A little early for my taste though, as I have him pegged at a late first, early 2nd rounder.

5. Now, I wouldn't mind this pick. Jenkins is more than just a space eater. He has a quick first step and can collapse the pocket when he is on his game. Would allow us to move Rat outside (which I don't see happening, but would love).

6. This is the way to go. I will be pretty upset if Jones isn't a Cowboy next season, barring us picking in the top ten.
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Some Mocks from the web:

15 DALLAS COWBOYS: T.J. MCDONALD, S, USC

http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-A.php


Garbage

Quote:
20. Dallas Cowboys: Jackson Jeffcoat, DE, Texas

http://newnfldraft.com/nfl-mock-draft-first-round-picks-17-24/


Garbage

Quote:
21. Dallas: William Gholston, DE, Michigan St

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2013/2013-nfl-mock-draft.cfm?writer=48&page=2


Garbage

Quote:
18. Dallas Cowboys - Corey Lemonier, DE/OLB, Auburn

http://www.draftking.com/mock/2013/


Garbage

Quote:
15. Dallas Cowboys: Johnathan Jenkins, NT, Georgia

http://walterfootball.com/draft2013.php


Love this pick, but he's a 2nd rounder.

Quote:
17. C Barrett Jones, Alabama

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/Mock-Drafts/2013-nfl-mock-draft.html


Love this pick, but he's o-line so it won't happen.


YOU'RE BACK!!!!!
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do people keep giving up DL so early? I believe we have our future at DL already on the roster.

Lissemore - Brent - Crawford

We on the other hand to not have the future at Safety, OL, QB, OLB, WR
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Desperado82


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
Why do people keep giving up DL so early? I believe we have our future at DL already on the roster.

Lissemore - Brent - Crawford

We on the other hand to not have the future at Safety, OL, QB, OLB, WR


J, do you not feel confident in Church?
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Why do people keep giving up DL so early? I believe we have our future at DL already on the roster.

Lissemore - Brent - Crawford

We on the other hand to not have the future at Safety, OL, QB, OLB, WR


J, do you not feel confident in Church?

I do like Church. I am not very confident in him being healthy, but I do feel we need to replace Sensabaugh ASAP. He is a SS playing FS and we need a playmaker now at that position.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Why do people keep giving up DL so early? I believe we have our future at DL already on the roster.

Lissemore - Brent - Crawford

We on the other hand to not have the future at Safety, OL, QB, OLB, WR


J, do you not feel confident in Church?

I do like Church. I am not very confident in him being healthy, but I do feel we need to replace Sensabaugh ASAP. He is a SS playing FS and we need a playmaker now at that position.


Do you have your eyes on anyone?

I kind of would like to add Byrd. He is my main FA target this off-season.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Why do people keep giving up DL so early? I believe we have our future at DL already on the roster.

Lissemore - Brent - Crawford

We on the other hand to not have the future at Safety, OL, QB, OLB, WR


J, do you not feel confident in Church?

I do like Church. I am not very confident in him being healthy, but I do feel we need to replace Sensabaugh ASAP. He is a SS playing FS and we need a playmaker now at that position.


Gotcha. I don't know if I feel like safety is a first round issue though, especially with our issues in the trenches.

I know you feel we have our future on the DL, but I don't think you can ever have too much depth there. Look at the Giants and what they've done.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Why do people keep giving up DL so early? I believe we have our future at DL already on the roster.

Lissemore - Brent - Crawford

We on the other hand to not have the future at Safety, OL, QB, OLB, WR


J, do you not feel confident in Church?

I do like Church. I am not very confident in him being healthy, but I do feel we need to replace Sensabaugh ASAP. He is a SS playing FS and we need a playmaker now at that position.


Do you have your eyes on anyone?

I kind of would like to add Byrd. He is my main FA target this off-season.

I don't see Buffalo letting Byrd go because he has been their play maker that McKelvin never was. I really like Lester in this years draft, I think he is the play maker that we need.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Why do people keep giving up DL so early? I believe we have our future at DL already on the roster.

Lissemore - Brent - Crawford

We on the other hand to not have the future at Safety, OL, QB, OLB, WR


J, do you not feel confident in Church?

I do like Church. I am not very confident in him being healthy, but I do feel we need to replace Sensabaugh ASAP. He is a SS playing FS and we need a playmaker now at that position.


Gotcha. I don't know if I feel like safety is a first round issue though, especially with our issues in the trenches.

I know you feel we have our future on the DL, but I don't think you can ever have too much depth there. Look at the Giants and what they've done.

I can agree with that, but you can find quality interior lineman in later rounds of the draft. This is a deep year for interior lineman we have multiple being predicted as 1st round talent but we should all know that interior lineman don't really get drafted that high. So that means most of them will fall into the 2nd round. I would not be shocked to see Warmack fall into the 2nd just because of his limited positions. I could realistically see Barrett Jones the only interior lineman drafted in the 1st due to his versatility.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:

I don't see Buffalo letting Byrd go because he has been their play maker that McKelvin never was. I really like Lester in this years draft, I think he is the play maker that we need.


Part of me feels that Byrd won't want to return. Mario Williams has been one of the bigger names that has signed to the Bills, and yet they are still mired in mediocrity (Thanks TSSS!). So part of me feels he will take a stab at Free Agency, especially knowing he will probably earn the Highest Paid Contract for a S. And no, I am not saying he plays like the best S, but I am talking about market demand value.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Why do people keep giving up DL so early? I believe we have our future at DL already on the roster.

Lissemore - Brent - Crawford

We on the other hand to not have the future at Safety, OL, QB, OLB, WR


J, do you not feel confident in Church?

I do like Church. I am not very confident in him being healthy, but I do feel we need to replace Sensabaugh ASAP. He is a SS playing FS and we need a playmaker now at that position.


Gotcha. I don't know if I feel like safety is a first round issue though, especially with our issues in the trenches.

I know you feel we have our future on the DL, but I don't think you can ever have too much depth there. Look at the Giants and what they've done.

I can agree with that, but you can find quality interior lineman in later rounds of the draft. This is a deep year for interior lineman we have multiple being predicted as 1st round talent but we should all know that interior lineman don't really get drafted that high. So that means most of them will fall into the 2nd round. I would not be shocked to see Warmack fall into the 2nd just because of his limited positions. I could realistically see Barrett Jones the only interior lineman drafted in the 1st due to his versatility.


It wouldn't surprise me. All I'm saying is with our issues on the offensive line, we almost have to address it within the first two rounds. I would not feel comfortable in taking an offensive lineman any later and expecting him to start.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
There's no question QB is the most important position on the team, but look at it like this. The team spent the 9th overall pick on the offensive line in 2011. They then proceeded to draft Arkin in the 4th, Nagy in the 7th and signed Kowalski and Costa in free agency. That's essentially five new additions to the offensive line that they brought in that year.


Would you really have been comfortable with that from an organizational standpoint, though? Especially with DeCastro being available? There's a world of difference in talent between him and those other guys, and DeCastro hadn't even taken an NFL snap. Why take the risk of remaining on the cheap when protecting Romo is crucial? I just don't see the logic.

Quote:
Smith came on strong late last year at right tackle, Free was mediocre at left tackle hence the switch-a-roo between the two. Nagy started the season at LG but went on IR after four(?) games. Costa was less than impressive, but again, not terrible. Kowalski showed some promise at RG while filling in for Kosier and Arkin did not play a snap due to adjusting from D-II.


Again, was that worth the risk? You know that I'll take risks in certain areas, but you also know that I won't take any risks with respect to the lines. You can't go cheap on o-line or d-line because your team will fall apart.

Quote:
Given the way Nagy, Smith and Kowalski played in 2011, I'd imagine the staff felt comfortable going into training camp with them and the likes of Livings and Bernadeau competing for jobs on the interior offensive line. Last I checked, you draft players with the hopes they'll be come eventual starters. Only way that happens is if they get a chance to compete for a job. Unfortunately, Nagy and Kowalski both went down with injury which threw a wrench into the competition on the line.


Which further supports the need for better players because our starters were mediocre at best and their backups were trash.

Quote:
When you consider the 2011 season saw three quarterbacks eclipse 5,000 passing yards, and after spending three picks of eight on the offensive line and bringing in two rookie free agents just a year ago, I can see why they (the front office) felt signing Carr and drafting Claiborne was a good idea; especially with Mike Jenkins once again suffering another injury that caused him to miss the majority of the season, Newman no longer starting quality and Scandrick a nickel corner at best. We lost quite a few games last year because Newman and the likes of Alan Ball and Frank Walker were starting and could not cover opposing receivers.


And what about Romo's two meltdowns which led to 2 losses? Had he not had two massive brain cramps against Detroit and the Jets, we would've been 10-6, won the NFCE and been in the playoffs. That, coupled with the decaying play on o-line suggested the need for help there, too.

Granted, there's no question that our secondary was trash last year. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool. But, it's not like our d-line was anything special, either. We had no pass rush, which made it harder on our secondary to perform. Plus, our o-line was garbage. So what did we do? We used two premium picks on a DB AFTER signing another one to a huge contract and then drafted guys who were poor fits for a 3-4 defense and ignored the o-line because we went on the cheap in free agency.

How did that work out for us?
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me. All I'm saying is with our issues on the offensive line, we almost have to address it within the first two rounds. I would not feel comfortable in taking an offensive lineman any later and expecting him to start.


I can't think of a year (assuming that some of the underclassmen I think will declare, do) that has had a deeper interior line class in recent history. I expect you will see a lot of very good players come out in the later part of the draft.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Why do people keep giving up DL so early? I believe we have our future at DL already on the roster.

Lissemore - Brent - Crawford

We on the other hand to not have the future at Safety, OL, QB, OLB, WR


J, do you not feel confident in Church?

I do like Church. I am not very confident in him being healthy, but I do feel we need to replace Sensabaugh ASAP. He is a SS playing FS and we need a playmaker now at that position.


Gotcha. I don't know if I feel like safety is a first round issue though, especially with our issues in the trenches.

I know you feel we have our future on the DL, but I don't think you can ever have too much depth there. Look at the Giants and what they've done.

I can agree with that, but you can find quality interior lineman in later rounds of the draft. This is a deep year for interior lineman we have multiple being predicted as 1st round talent but we should all know that interior lineman don't really get drafted that high. So that means most of them will fall into the 2nd round. I would not be shocked to see Warmack fall into the 2nd just because of his limited positions. I could realistically see Barrett Jones the only interior lineman drafted in the 1st due to his versatility.


It wouldn't surprise me. All I'm saying is with our issues on the offensive line, we almost have to address it within the first two rounds. I would not feel comfortable in taking an offensive lineman any later and expecting him to start.

Well that is what i am talking about, taking Safety then looking at OL, but I am game for BPA as well.
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