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Desperado82


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 27051
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: A Reminder Reply with quote

I joined this site five years ago. When I joined, the Cowboys forum was one of the most active forums on the site. Members engaged in productive discussion with one another without insult (most of the time) the DCRA v. DCOA was like an inside joke and was handled fairly well, new members and their views were welcomed and the vets helped to ensure good discussion was promoted. I remember looking up to guys like Matts, plan, Slam, TSSS, SA, T_O7 and others because of the intelligent ways they presented their opinions, even if they didn't agree with one another.

For whatever reason, this forum has gone down hill over the last two or three years. We aren't nearly as active. New viewpoints don't seem to be as welcomed or hardly exist as we get very few new members now. Threads are derailed with constant talk about "Jerry apologists" or "realists". In a sense, this isn't a great place to come and talk Cowboys football anymore, and it's sad.

Some of us may feel things will not get better with Jerry Jones remaining as GM. Some may believe that the last two years have shown maybe Jerry has adapted in some of his thinking and that Stephen and Jason have more of a say than in the football side of things, more so than any coach since Jimmy. Whatever your opinion, the fact remains we are all Cowboy fans. None of us should be made to feel stupid or accused of being an "apologist" or a "realist" or any of the other BS nicknames that have been thrown around, and for the most part we are all adults here. We should be able to discuss issues regarding the team without resorting to petty insults about each other.

As a reminder, here are the rules:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9338

Quote:
1. Do not post anything abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. This includes references in usernames, signatures, avatars, and PMs.

2. Personal attacks, name calling, and threats to other members are not allowed.

3. Do not flame or troll. This is when you start a topic or post just to anger or incite other members.


From here on out, I ask that if you disagree with a member and can't make a retort with insulting the fellow poster, just don't make a reply. Stick to talking about football only. Hopefully by doing this, we can get this forum back on top again where it belongs.

- D82
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would indeed be nice to have real discussions again.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Des, you looked up to Matts, Plan. and Slam? I feel bad for you, they are the worst role models around.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
Des, you looked up to Matts, Plan. and Slam? I feel bad for you, they are the worst role models around.


As true as that statement is, I know that Slam and I never claimed to be role models.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Des, you looked up to Matts, Plan. and Slam? I feel bad for you, they are the worst role models around.


As true as that statement is, I know that Slam and I never claimed to be role models.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMzdAZ3TjCA

Laughing
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TheStarStillShines


Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
Des, you looked up to Matts, Plan. and Slam? I feel bad for you, they are the worst role models around.


LOL!!!

Well said Des.

Just to add, I think we're all frustrated with the team's success (or lack of) the past 18 years. We probably all agree on a lot of issues, but sometimes we don't see it. One thing is for sure - we all want to see the team do well. I hope it happens sooner than later.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Des, you looked up to Matts, Plan. and Slam? I feel bad for you, they are the worst role models around.


As true as that statement is, I know that Slam and I never claimed to be role models.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMzdAZ3TjCA

Laughing

So essentially don't allow Matts, Plan, and Slam to raise your kids.
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Desperado82


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 27051
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheStarStillShines wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Des, you looked up to Matts, Plan. and Slam? I feel bad for you, they are the worst role models around.


LOL!!!

Well said Des.

Just to add, I think we're all frustrated with the team's success (or lack of) the past 18 years. We probably all agree on a lot of issues, but sometimes we don't see it. One thing is for sure - we all want to see the team do well. I hope it happens sooner than later.


How do you think us younger guys feel? Some of you got to see the success of Staubach and the 'Doomsday Defense' in the '70s along with the three Super Bowl wins in the '90s. Some of you only got to go a long for the ride in the '90s.

Those of us born in '90 and later haven't gotten to experience that yet. I want to see this team have a successful regular season, witness them go on a roll in the playoffs and ultimately see our players hoist that Lombardi Trophy. Seeing old highlight reels just isn't the same. I can only imagine how it feels to go through the highs and the lows of the regular season and then watch your team end the season as Super Bowl champions.
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Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I believe a simple "yes, our apologies, it will not happen again" would suffice.
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me227


Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 1039
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been a part of this forum for the last six years. I don't post often, but when I do it is usually for a reason. That being said this forum has been a sinking ship for a while. We have people who believe that they know the every answer to every problem and for the heck of it, fabricate new problems just to say "I told you so". When I first started on this forum we were getting new posters all the time, now have we had 5 new posters that have stuck around over that last year? Often it seems like if we get a new poster, they don't stick around long for a few reasons.

1. They usually get angry words thrown there way for having a different opinion than the so called "Vets". I am sure that we have lost numerous quality posters just do to the fact that within there first 10 post, they have been told that they are clueless, a hater, a homer, dumb, an idiot, a child or other insults that go without any consequences.

2. Why would they want to stay in a "Dallas Cowboys" forum that seems to be a Redskins, Eagles or Giants forum. If I was a new poster, I wouldn't want to be in a place where it seems like there is more hatred towards the Cowboys than people being fans.

I think this forum would get back to it's glory days if people would take it for what it is. This isn't a place to have a peeing for distance contest with the newbies, this isn't a place to be unrealistic (overly homeristic or overly negative), or a place to fight with anyone who has a different opinion as you do. This is a place where people with the same interest, the Cowboys, a place to get together and talk about the good or the bad. You can be positive and not be a homer, or negative and be a hater, however some people don't allow that to be an option.

Just my $.02.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

me227 wrote:
You can be positive and not be a homer, or negative and be a hater, however some people don't allow that to be an option.


I think there was a lot of quality in this post - but this stuck out to me. You're right. As a forum - and this falls more so on the vets than anything - we failed.

We allowed the theory that their is a right way of thinking and a wrong. We allowed there to be class-warfare. We took the easy way out. It became less an discussion of ideas - but more so a firing squad. Anyone who doesn't notice the dramatic drop in new posters - or the shrinking amount of participants is blind. We stopped being receptive to no posters - that falls on ever vet here. And we have to do better. I am glad some are starting to realize the issue - and I am glad a lot of you are voicing your thoughts.
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The_Slamman


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Des, we ARE realists. That's not offensive. What is offensive is when somebody makes a realistic observation about the team and he gets attacked for it. This is a Dallas Cowboys forum and posters cannot even comment on Jerry Jones without militant backlash. WTF??? He's the owner and GM. He puts himself at the front of the organization. Of course he's going to be a major topic of conversation. What the hell do people expect? Do people really expect 16 years of failure and the GM's name not to come up? A lot? Seriously, if the Steelers, eagles, pats, packers, etc had the same 16 years of failure with the same GM... You don't think their threads wouldn't be full of GM references? He's the bloody GM people. Talking about him is pretty much fair in ANY thread... No different than bringing up the head coach is to be expected in ANY cowboys related thread.

It's a shame that people are either so sensitive or so accepting of failure.
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Desperado82


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
Des, we ARE realists. That's not offensive. What is offensive is when somebody makes a realistic observation about the team and he gets attacked for it. This is a Dallas Cowboys forum and posters cannot even comment on Jerry Jones without militant backlash. WTF??? He's the owner and GM. He puts himself at the front of the organization. Of course he's going to be a major topic of conversation. What the hell do people expect? Do people really expect 16 years of failure and the GM's name not to come up? A lot? Seriously, if the Steelers, eagles, pats, packers, etc had the same 16 years of failure with the same GM... You don't think their threads wouldn't be full of GM references? He's the bloody GM people. Talking about him is pretty much fair in ANY thread... No different than bringing up the head coach is to be expected in ANY cowboys related thread.

It's a shame that people are either so sensitive or so accepting of failure.


The viewpoint isn't the problem. It's the petty insults from both sides that I'm attempting to address.
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me227


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
Des, we ARE realists. That's not offensive. What is offensive is when somebody makes a realistic observation about the team and he gets attacked for it. This is a Dallas Cowboys forum and posters cannot even comment on Jerry Jones without militant backlash. WTF??? He's the owner and GM. He puts himself at the front of the organization. Of course he's going to be a major topic of conversation. What the hell do people expect? Do people really expect 16 years of failure and the GM's name not to come up? A lot? Seriously, if the Steelers, eagles, pats, packers, etc had the same 16 years of failure with the same GM... You don't think their threads wouldn't be full of GM references? He's the bloody GM people. Talking about him is pretty much fair in ANY thread... No different than bringing up the head coach is to be expected in ANY cowboys related thread.

It's a shame that people are either so sensitive or so accepting of failure.


I understand why people hate Cowboys fans. Cowboys fans are spoiled by success in the past, so the expect it in in the present. News flash, there are 31 other teams in the league. There are 13 teams in the league who have never been to a Super Bowl or have never won one and they are happier than most Cowboys Fans. There are people who have been fans of teams for 50 years and have never seen their team win a Super Bowl. I am 25 and have seen my team win 3 Super Bowls. There are some older posters on this forum who may have seen not only the glory days of the 90's but the teams who went to the NFC Championships in the 80's and maybe the Super Bowls of the 70's. Be realistic, in my lifetime no team has won more Super Bowls than my team. My friends and family who are Chiefs, Jets, Vikings, Bengals, and Eagles fans have never seen their team win won, yet they are not as hateful towards their team. Have we had a lot of success lately? No, but you know what, those fans of other teams wish they would have 1 playoff win in 16 years if it meant they won 3 Super Bowls in the previous 4 years.
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

me227 wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
Des, we ARE realists. That's not offensive. What is offensive is when somebody makes a realistic observation about the team and he gets attacked for it. This is a Dallas Cowboys forum and posters cannot even comment on Jerry Jones without militant backlash. WTF??? He's the owner and GM. He puts himself at the front of the organization. Of course he's going to be a major topic of conversation. What the hell do people expect? Do people really expect 16 years of failure and the GM's name not to come up? A lot? Seriously, if the Steelers, eagles, pats, packers, etc had the same 16 years of failure with the same GM... You don't think their threads wouldn't be full of GM references? He's the bloody GM people. Talking about him is pretty much fair in ANY thread... No different than bringing up the head coach is to be expected in ANY cowboys related thread.

It's a shame that people are either so sensitive or so accepting of failure.


I understand why people hate Cowboys fans. Cowboys fans are spoiled by success in the past, so the expect it in in the present. News flash, there are 31 other teams in the league. There are 13 teams in the league who have never been to a Super Bowl or have never won one and they are happier than most Cowboys Fans. There are people who have been fans of teams for 50 years and have never seen their team win a Super Bowl. I am 25 and have seen my team win 3 Super Bowls. There are some older posters on this forum who may have seen not only the glory days of the 90's but the teams who went to the NFC Championships in the 80's and maybe the Super Bowls of the 70's. Be realistic, in my lifetime no team has won more Super Bowls than my team. My friends and family who are Chiefs, Jets, Vikings, Bengals, and Eagles fans have never seen their team win won, yet they are not as hateful towards their team. Have we had a lot of success lately? No, but you know what, those fans of other teams wish they would have 1 playoff win in 16 years if it meant they won 3 Super Bowls in the previous 4 years.


2 questions:

1. Would your friends and family be some accepting of their teams failures if there had been no change at the upper management level despite 16 years of failure? Seriously, if team ownership just let the same GM continue sucking after 16 years... you don't think they'd voice an opinion on the subject??? If your answer to that question is "no," will you please introduce me to your friends and family? I've got some stuff that I really want to sell them.

2. If people who are realistic about the organization really just "hate" the cowboys, why do you think they are emotionally vested into changing the cowboys for the better? It would seem to me that those fans who speak out to improve the organization are better, more passionate fans than those who care so little that they don't even recognize the problem. If you owned a billion dollar corporation, would you want a bunch of yes men on the board of directors? Or, would you want people who would strive to improve the organization even if they say things you may not want to hear?
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